nasty Western bits

joosie

joosie

lifelong sufferer of restless brain syndrome
Oct 28, 2004
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New Zealand
I'll start by saying that I mean absolutely no offence by what I'm about to ask! But I've been exposed to a lot of Western riders since I moved to Italy, whereas in the UK I never encountered any, and I need to say this - if only to receive responses from you lot to reassure myself that the majority of Western riders are good horsepeople :)

I was at the tack shop for a bit the other day, and got caught up looking at the massive selection of Western bits on offer. Some looked no harsher than common English bits, and there were lots of curbs and so on. Fine. However, most of them had very thin and twisted mouthpieces, which made me a little uncomfortable. There were also several that I can only describe as torture devices. One with the thinnest mouthpiece I have ever seen - like two wood-screws attached together, with the tiny ridges to match - I'm envisioning a horse with multiple tiny cuts across his tongue. One with about 30 independently-moving metal rings along the length of the mouthpiece - I'm imagining 30 different parts of the tongue being pinched at the same time. Also one that was, literally, a bike chain - again, I'm seeing painful pinches on multiple parts of the tongue.

Now, here's the thing. I KNOW that these kind of bits are NOT standard Western bits, and I know that very few riders would choose to use such devices. HOWEVER, the very thought of someone even designing such things makes me sick to my stomach. To my mind, using them goes against everything that is supposed to be good about Western. I know Western horses aren't ridden on a constant contact, but just a single hard jerk on the reins would be enough for some of those bits to cause a lot of pain. I'm just wondering - since I really don't know much about it - how the Western riding community in general feels about the use of harsh bits. And what type of bits people tend to favour.
 
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I would imagine that the average western rider will feel much the same as an English one confronted with a magaran (sp?) bit or a wire twisted snaffle both intruments of torture. if you look at 'classic' spanish tack it includes the serretta which is basically a noseband with the equivilant of a bread knife stuck inside. Bike chain bits are Im told common in trotting races.

Unfortuantly there are crappy and abusive tack tools in every field of horsemanship.

The good riders rise above it - for example the final spur to me going western was watching a BHSII instructor who also teachs dressage and I think used to event do sliding stops, spins etc on the lightest contact them stop, take of her bridle and do all the same moves again!
 
Actually, I don't use a bit anymore. *lol* I've got a bridle with a loose ring snaffle, though, just in case I decide to go back. Around our barn, snaffles are common, and I know a couple women who use (and really shouldn't) curb bits. Not the horrendous torture type, but the basic curbs. They don't have hands gentle enough for them, IMO.
The people I ride with, and learn from, use pretty basic bits, but I have heard of one that uses a double twist snaffle, I think? two bits, both twisted wire? NO THANKS. If I can't manage without pain and fear, then I need to get OUT of riding.
 
It's all very common here :( What you describe is very much our local tack store. The decent western, reining, cutting etc riders can use these things ... but it's that same deal as the draw-reins in english - if you have good enough skills to use such things, you don't need to ! Round here, they're invariably used on 'trail horses'. You should see the god-awful contraption I saw in the mouth of that little walking horse-pony the other week - the one that had bucked off the dad, so was being ridden by the girl. Kick, kick, boot, slap, haul .... in 6 inch shanks on the curb and a high-port ... and No, I am not going to believe anyone who tells me the high-port 'makes room for the tongue'. No, it doesn't, not any tongue I've ever seen on a horse. It simply bashes into the roof of the horse's mouth if he lets it. Yes, he'll give to pressure alright.
 
my RI who is a western trainer has bits of all sorts but i saw this one that looked horrendous it has i swear 8 inch maybe longer shanks with what looks like a solid curb. She then told me to stop looking at it funny and that this bit with no showy ingraves costs 300.00 canadian, and is a very soft bit and has plenty of movement, and that is the bit i am finishing my mare on:eek:. i watched her use it one day on a very sensitive gelding that was mostly ridden in a bit that seriously scrapes at there mouth forcing their head down and he seemed so happy with it in.
point of story not all very scarey bits are acctually scarey or torturous just most of them are.

i also believe that it all depends on the rider if you have soft hands and know how to ride in a curb go ahead if you don't then don't.
 
I still can't quite understand the bit situation (Bit like the Western Saddle--why build a saddle to spread the weight then make it four times heavier?!)
So why start riding bitless with one or two reins and then move on to a snaffle and then shanked bit---surely this is going backwards? If you can ride without a bit (Or in some cases without a bridle!!) why use a "harsher" bit?
 
Harry Hobbes said:
For the same reason Lorries are four times larger (and heavier) than passenger automobiles.

It has to do with the concept of "heavy duty."

Best regards,
Harry
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so the logic in "why build a saddle to spread the weight then make it four times heavier?!" is actually backwards.

Start with the requirement "build a saddle that will take a rider all day, allow that rider to rope cattle, allow rider to carry their kit with the,...." etc etc

ah right - a saddle like that (as Harry says, a "heavy duty" saddle) is heavy. How can we make that easier for the horse to carry ? We need to spread the weight as much as possible !
 
Actually, I have no intention of going back to the snaffle or going up to a curb...I have the bitless bridle, which works well on my draft, and I plan to continue to use it. I keep the regular bridle because I will probably occasionally ride her with it, just to keep that skill. That way, if she's ever sold, she'll still be okay with a bit.
So, I guess I'm sort of a weird type. Western saddle (about 40 pounds), bitless bridle, barefoot, want to learn about some NH techniques, and I ride a Percheron. One of a kind, around these parts. ;)
 
A real horseman does not choose the bit...he allows the horse to do that. It is not a matter of severeness but of communication. Some horses need a more definite signal to respond to the cues. Pulling or jerking on a "mild" bit is worse than a light touch on a "louder" bit.

True horseman have a very limited selection of bits. But they are adjusted and used in a very precise manner. Bits which are "severe" are sold to mask deficiencies of the rider or trainer, not to allow the horse to perform at their top levels.

Anyone taking a horse to high levels knows that any pain or discomfort to the horse will set back the training program - not advance it. Most problems associated with bits and novice riders can be cured by going softer rather than heavier. A rider with too little skill on too much horse can never be cured with a bit.

One goal that should be worked toward is to train the horse to a level where the bridle and bit can be thrown aside and still achieve performance. There are many ways to communicate to a horse beside the hands.
 
jinglejoys said:
I still can't quite understand the bit situation...So why start riding bitless with one or two reins and then move on to a snaffle and then shanked bit---surely this is going backwards?
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Someone probably ought to answer your question…

Metaphorically, the answer is…for the same reason that one starts with drawing and finger painting (or drawing with pencils) and then moves on to other tools such as brushes to paint the Mona Lisa. One is skill-building, and the tools used reflect the level of refinement.

The sequence is backwards only if one's goal is to have a Mona Lisa rather than learn to paint the Mona Lisa.

If learning to paint the Mona Lisa is the goal, one has to advance through and build upon the basics - the foundation - as the basis to hone skills to perfection required to arrive at art. That process requires refining the use of tools and technique.

The same concept applies to starting a colt in the jaquima (or snaffle bit), and eventually advancing to the spade bit: the end product is exceedingly highly trained, responsive and light - with just a touch of the reins.

Best regards,
Harry

P.S. The snaffle bit was late in coming to the Western (i.e., Vaquero/cowboy) culture. It came from Europe via England, then to the Eastern U.S. and only came to the "cowboys" within the last hundred years or so, but is now used extensively to "start" colts. Contrariwise, the traditional (Spanish influence) progression of "mouth-wear" was from the jaquima, wherein the colt was "started," to the spade bit, which was introduced to "finish" the horse at a very high state of training.

But the progression of the horse from jaquima, to snaffle, to spade bit (three steps) is a relatively recent practice.
 
KateWooten said:
You should see the god-awful contraption I saw in the mouth of that little walking horse-pony the other week - the one that had bucked off the dad, so was being ridden by the girl. Kick, kick, boot, slap, haul .... in 6 inch shanks on the curb and a high-port ... and No, I am not going to believe anyone who tells me the high-port 'makes room for the tongue'. No, it doesn't, not any tongue I've ever seen on a horse. It simply bashes into the roof of the horse's mouth if he lets it. Yes, he'll give to pressure alright.
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Sure will, just not always in the direction one had in mind.

Remember how I was so depressed a month or so ago when my neighbor sent her horse with the giant buck to a trainer who uses a two-by-four? Guess what kind of bit the (four yr old) is in now? Did you guess "six inch shanks with a high port"? Ding ding ding we have . . . well, what we have is a horse who reared so high with his "trainer" that he nearly went over backward with him. Gee, I'm so glad his bucking problem's fixed.
 
At the risk of being pilloried, I'm going to add my pennyworth here. I used to do Western riding and at the yard I went to, they used plain snaffles. However, went to another yard and there was all manner of bits, the like of some I would call 'Medeval torture devices'. They might well have used these bits in the Wild West era but hey, we're in the 21st century now - time for a change I think. Sorry if I've offended any Western riders. I'e done Western riding myself at a yard in near Heathfield. However, I would add that neck reining is mostly used in Western Riding and only, very occasionally is the bit used as control.
 
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not read the thread... but western riding is different to english. The bit is more sevear, but you ride with no contact, you use your weight and leg position to slow and stop the horse, so although the bit is harsh it should not be used very often at all - a western rider sould never ride with contact.
 
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True, the shanks aren't meant to have constant contact, and western riding DOES use neck reining, so in that it's different from english and constant "light contact"...But I guess the biggest difference is going to be had dependant upon the hands of the rider...that is, IF the horse has been trained well enough up to that point where s/he's accepting the bit and the rest of the rider commands.
that's actually why I'm going backwards with my horse. I want to see how she'll react given different situations. Snaffle, bitless, halter. No way I'd go harsh, as she's young and hasn't been trained in anything 'bigger' than a snaffle...plus, I haven't the hand control for it. ;)
 
like others have said riding western is much different from english we have barely to no contact with their mouths. we start off by getting them used to the rider with a bitless (hackmore, bosal, halter ect) but in a higher levels from 5 yrs older (in the horses case) in the rules or western riding(showing) the horse MUST be in a shanked bit of a sort. The snaffle can be used from 4 years and younger during showing because the horse is still at the training stage after that they are considered a senior horse and must have the shanked/curb bit. i just wanted to add that piece of advise and mostly because i love my western pleasure which is known for "cruelty" towards the horses because how slow they look (people think they have been injured), the bits and the spurs (did you know those are also mandatory in higher levels of western riding).
 
raingodz said:
not read the thread... but western riding is different to english. The bit is more sevear, but you ride with no contact, you use your weight and leg position to slow and stop the horse, so although the bit is harsh it should not be used very often at all - a western rider sould never ride with contact.
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This is exactly my point of confusion. Why then do Western riders use bits at all? :confused:
 
joosie-This is exactly my point of confusion. Why then do Western riders use bits at all?
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i wrote just above yours i probably the second or third sentence from the top-
bitless (hackmore, bosal, halter ect) but in a higher levels from 5 yrs older (in the horses case) in the rules or western riding(showing) the horse MUST be in a shanked bit of a sort. The snaffle can be used from 4 years and younger during showing because the horse is still at the training stage after that they are considered a senior horse and must have the shanked/curb bit. i just wanted to add that piece of advise and mostly because i love my western pleasure which is known for "cruelty" towards the horses because how slow they look (people think they have been injured), the bits and the spurs (did you know those are also mandatory in higher levels of western riding).
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so if the highlighting didn't help i will some it up in one word-MANDATORY
 
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