Planting, need ideas.

Louki

New Member
Mar 20, 2009
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No physical reason, we're fully checked out, new saddle (fits perfect), feet fantastic, body fantastic, teeth fantastic.


Im getting full on 100% wall of stubborness, that not even heavy riding gets going.


Last night, 30mins of squeezing, then nudging, then kicking & backing up with whip, light open seat, no rein contact at all (on the buckle so as not to hinder forward in any way).. Madam weight shifts onto 3 legs, head down & goes to sleep, only reaction to aids was a bit of tail swishing when i used the whip or gave her a heavy leg aid.


Today, impulse spurs went on. went as far as fairly firm leg ( I refuse to go past that wearing spurs, i aint no monster) backed up with whip, bugger all from her.


Resorted to giving her a heavy whack with the whip, figured, if she went off in canter, what the heck its forward and when she went forward by heck id keep her going. No reaction what so ever.


I've been doing join up, as her field authority (shes went from low/medium to full on herd leader) had gone to her head a bit and she was trying it on with me, join up took forever (30mins - 4 attempts before we got join up + follow)


It is just 100% pure stubborn madam & I've never ever ever came across such a bloody wall of it before. Ive tried everything I can think of, and it doesnt work. She'll follow someone on the lunge, but evades everything I do to try and get her to move out from that person.


Ran out of my list of idea's to try, so has anyone got any more that I can have a go at. Got to get her nipped in the bud quick and the sooner the better !!
 
Can you disengage her hindquarters, so she effectively as least moves from the spot.

Even tight circles is hard work, so it's either tight circles or walking forwards (i.e making walking forward the easy option)

Or... A Whip wop (a rope you swing over their neck, think western riders who go Yar, yar with their long reins)

x

Edited to say: I know nothing about this horse, or her age etc so I assume this is a new thing? And she knows about pressure and release etc and that you have just hit a stubborn patch in your work.

Is she frightened?
Has anything happended?
Is she looking around, not interested?
What's she like normally?
What's she like on the ground?
(I wont go into pain, if you have had everything done)
 
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Blimey, I know I'm losing it now, I clicked on this title cos I thought you wanted ideas for planting tubs around your yard (that was how my mind set worked!!!!) not realising you meant planting of feet and not moving forwards....oh dear. Sorry. Anyway, I know it might sound like a really stupid idea but could you get somebody on the ground to tempt her forwards by way of food / treat? Once she's going then keep up with leg aids?
 
Blimey, I know I'm losing it now, I clicked on this title cos I thought you wanted ideas for planting tubs around your yard (that was how my mind set worked!!!!)

Your first post made me laugh...

As in flower tubs - in case that didn't come out right - you know, like landscaping....


And then the second one really did! lol Do you work as a gardener?
xxx
 
Your first post made me laugh...




And then the second one really did! lol Do you work as a gardener?
xxx

lol, not a gardener, but atm I'm thinking of planting up some tubs for around our yard (just to add finishing touches:cool:)! So when I saw this title I was about to impart my wisdom on the various plants / flowers available....:eek::D
 
Lotti, shes a 9yr old icelandic, backed & lightly schooled before she came to me 6 weeks ago.


On the ground she was perfect till her new begotton her position (low/medium at breeders, to herd leader here) went to her head & I was being challanged, solved that with join up, which took ages ! ohhh can she be stubborn.

No nasty attitude to her at all, which also means I'd rather not push her to hard as I dont want to encourage her to develope one.


When your on her, she doesnt even look around, unless she's being encouraged to follow someone. Just shifts her weight onto 3 leg stance, head down, eyes closed. tail swishes when you back leg up with whip. its 100% I aint going and you aint gonna make me lol.


On the ground she's perfect, unless your about to take her out of the good field, where she goes during the day at the moment as the boys (2 shetlands) are on strip grazing as the grass is all having a massive flush, so shes grass during the day and in with the boys at night, but she'd far rather 24hr grass, bit of a greedy streak & body weight to spare with it !


Driving me nuts !
 
Clicker. :D

Two ways spring to mind.

1. When you introduce clicker training, you generally have the horse touch a target, click-treat. Get her targetting on the ground, then following the target, one small step at a time. If you build up to targeting traffic cones, you could put a line up and move from one to the next, on the ground first so she gets the idea, then from on board.

2. Microshaping. It can be a little harder than pure targeting, because you're truly looking for the smallest try. You'll need to make the click-treat association first. Ear forward; click/treat. Even a muscle twitch, click-treat. Anything that isn't a backwards movement - click-treat.

Once the behaviour is increasing in frequency (i.e. after every treat, she moves again) you can hold out for a little bit more; a pick up of a foot, half a step, a step, two steps etc.

Don't cue the behaviour, wait for it to happen, because then it is *her* idea and that makes it even more worthwhile. ;) Yes it can be very frustrating and time consuming, but it works.

Then you'll have to go away and check your brakes. :D
 
Gosh, it must drive you mad, I can't imagine what I'd do in that situation! But she will follow another horse, say for a hack? Hmm, difficult. I presume you're pretty confident as a rider, (she would probably run rings around me as I'd be too scared that she might do something nasty to be overly persuasive!). What about those things that are supposed to annoy them into movement (whip whops?).
 
Gosh, it must drive you mad, I can't imagine what I'd do in that situation! But she will follow another horse, say for a hack? Hmm, difficult. I presume you're pretty confident as a rider, (she would probably run rings around me as I'd be too scared that she might do something nasty to be overly persuasive!). What about those things that are supposed to annoy them into movement (whip whops?).


Mad, its driving me flippin demented ! esp as I've already had her out on a few really good hacks that she really enjoyed & she's so forward going you wouldnt believe its the same horse. Its only since the 2 boys gave up fighting her back re herd position & decided its easier just to roll over and play ball that she's been developing this stubborn streak.

Gota laugh, cos shes in the field in front of the office, she can see me through the window, and she's standing there shouting for me to go see her. So its not that her & I dont get on cos she sulks big time if I ever ignore her in the field without giving her a cuddle & a scratch & she long lines/lunges/freeschools brilliantly, prob cos then I have the big scarey driving whip in my hand, maby I outa ride with the driving whip lol.
 
Have you tired the two collies up the backside technique yet?

We had a mare do this. In the end I set both collies on her heels and we went up the track and out the gate like a dose of salts! She did it once more got the same treatment and never did it again. Turned into a model citizen. One of the best.
 
Have you tired the two collies up the backside technique yet?

We had a mare do this. In the end I set both collies on her heels and we went up the track and out the gate like a dose of salts! She did it once more got the same treatment and never did it again. Turned into a model citizen. One of the best.

Lol wally !! I would, but only 1 dependable dog left on the isle. We lost young Rob to heatstroke 3 weeks past !! (yes it really got that hot here) Just happened suddenly on a small caa. & she doesnt pay a blind bit of notice to dogs anyways, even if they are barking/yapping and threatening to nip her heels.
 
Ah, so it has gone to her head, her new promotion within the herd?!! She sounds a character.......

This is where it gets really frustrating because she isnt a character at all. She is a really lovely sweet friendly curious, sensitive wonderful girl. She just has a streak we didnt know about !
 
Molly occasionally does it to me

It is very annoying but I ignore her. Last time I did literally nothing, gave no aids at all. Got my phone out and made some calls, sent texts and admired the view. After ages (was at least 25 mins) she did a massive sigh and walked on of her own accord.

She enjoys it if I get cross - but she has a lower boredom threshold than me so gives in first :p

Whips, spurs, kicks etc have zero impact. She just glazes over in a maddening way :rolleyes:
 
The only thing I can suggest, especially as she is young is there is a gap in her training somewhere - hence she is confused or wotnot (I don't mean what you did, when she was backed!)

Suggestions;

I would go back and reaffirm her thinking forwards. Forwards is the first thing she needs to know.

I would make sure voice commands are met to, (so walk on etc - this can be done in a pleasant way, such as a walk out in hand on a hack) - (and then in tack as well)

Go back and do some longlineing (do you do this? Using the lines in the stirrups mocking the leg action?)

Riding wise:
**Get someone (or you lead someone) leading you to move off -adding the voice commands and the leg, and then taking away the leader and then taking away the voice etc over time

** I would try the wip wop as i mentioned in my first post, it's like a rope you swing over their neck. The swishing movement creats the pressure so to speak. Possibly prepare for her to really move forwards (so not grabbing the reins and sending conflicting messages)
 
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Molly occasionally does it to me

It is very annoying but I ignore her. Last time I did literally nothing, gave no aids at all. Got my phone out and made some calls, sent texts and admired the view. After ages (was at least 25 mins) she did a massive sigh and walked on of her own accord.

She enjoys it if I get cross - but she has a lower boredom threshold than me so gives in first :p

Whips, spurs, kicks etc have zero impact. She just glazes over in a maddening way :rolleyes:


Sat there for 30 mins on 3 occassions now doing the same lol, even told her next time I'll bring a book !

Quote
I would make sure voice commands are met to, (so walk on etc - this can be done in a pleasant way, such as a walk out in hand on a hack) - (and then in tack as well)

Her voice aids are totally on the button ! freeschooling, lunging, long lining, give a voice aid, response is instant, even loose in the field.

I long line using a roller, never use the saddle as I find it puts the lines at the wrong angle/depth for her.

Riding wise:
**Get someone (or you lead someone) leading you to move off -adding the voice commands and the leg, and then taking away the leader and then taking away the voice etc over time

Been hacking out like that, OH comes with us, gradually drops behind, she's fine for a while then realises he's wayyy behind & plants.

** I would try the wip wop as i mentioned in my first post, it's like a rope you swing over their neck. The swishing movement creats the pressure so to speak. Possibly prepare for her to really move forwards (so not grabbing the reins and sending conflicting messages)


Have an indian one, sits above the fire (i use it for getting rid of spiders webs lol) will try it !
 
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