Pony prone to falling

[jac0015]

Hi all, I've been reading this forum for ages but this is my first time asking for help.
4 months ago I started loaning a 10 year-old pony stallion. In this time, he's fallen completely over with me twice while cantering.
The first time made sense at the time - we were practising a working equitation speed course and the ground was a bit greasy (clay soil) and he fell over around a sharpish turn, right onto his side. We were both okay and I didn't think anything of it.
The second time we were schooling in a dressage-sized arena, flat, sandy surface, and while turning the corner in a steady canter he just went down under me. I was thrown clear but he went down completely on to his side again.
Before I started loaning him he hadn't been in regular work for a long time so his canter is quite unbalanced - he tends to drift outwards when circling in canter, or motorbikes around corners. He has had frequent smaller trips/stumbles in canter, usually around corners, but I have put that down to the ground being wet or slippery. I have been trying to work on his balance in canter but I am now becoming afraid to do much canter work with him.
He has a very narrow chest and sometimes feels like he is getting his forelegs crossed when cornering/circling. Is his poor conformation the main reason for these falls or are they an indication of something else wrong with him?
I'm also starting to worry it's me being topheavy and throwing him off balance - he's only 14.2 and a gaited breed so quite lightly built, and I'm 1m60, weighing about 55kg. Am I too big for him?

 

[chunky monkey]

You dont seem to heavy for the pony.

Do you have an instructor who could watch you ride to give advice or ride the pony for you to see if they fall in on the corners etc during canter. Depending on what they say i would then look at getting the vet out or a physio. Perhaps video yourself or the instructor to see if there is anything specific to be seen.

 

[jac0015]

You dont seem to heavy for the pony.

Do you have an instructor who could watch you ride to give advice or ride the pony for you to see if they fall in on the corners etc during canter. Depending on what they say i would then look at getting the vet out or a physio. Perhaps video yourself or the instructor to see if there is anything specific to be seen.

Thanks for the advice. I will ask his owner to get the chiro and/or physio out for him. His owner is actually my instructor - he saw the first fall (it was during a WE lesson in December) and also put it down to the slippery ground, but he didn't see the second one which happened yesterday. I haven't actually had a lesson for a while, so it is a good idea to let my instructor watch for these issues.

 

[chunky monkey]

I had a horse that tripped on me a few times just in walk. I put it down to a lack of me riding him forward at the time. I went over his head at walk in an arena. I never even connected the dots. I thought the trips were my poor riding.

I had a physio out not because of the trips just for some maintenance, it was them that picked up my horse had an issue. It was so minor the physio couldnt even decide which leg it was. We had to trot him up several times to even see it. I got my vet out, the horse had xrays, which showed an old injury. He had treatment and re xrayed 6 months later which showed deteriotion in the joint. 2 years later i had to completely retire the horse as the minor lameness turned into an unrideable horse.

This is worse case scenario, but shows how important it is to get an experienced eye to look at your horse.

 

[Skib]

I hacked a 15.2 pony who was very narrow in front. I was told that conformation wise, a narrow chest leaves less space for the lungs and heart. I liked the narrowness as she fitted me well and she cantered like the wind on the straight out hacking but was not ridden in a school.
Her legs never crossed in canter and indeed it was while riding her that I learned to ask for a specific canter lead on the straight .

RS horses that trip are another matter. One really needs to keep the hind legs moving and stretching well under them, even in walk. It is no good dawdling back to the yard in a walk to cool off. My escort's pony was one of these and he did trip and go down on his knees one day (luckily not hurt, skin not broken). But one needs to ride such ponies with care. Once she came off.
I had to stop riding my old share after she tripped a couple of times but it needs an instructor's eye to know whether the tripping is due to the age or heath of the horse or due to casual or novice riding.

 

[jac0015]

Thanks all for the suggestions! Very kind of you to share your expeirences with this sort of thing. I will definitely get him looked at in the week. I've been riding for many years and have never had a horse fall completely out from under me, so to have it happen twice in a few months is unnerving.
If the vet checks can't find anything wrong, I might just have to accept it's something he's prone to (due to his poor conformation, movement, or whatever) and will have to just do more hacking, etc, instead of schooling in the arena.

 

[newforest]

If he has poor conformation, I would wonder why he is still a stallion?

If he's gaited are you in trot before you ask for canter. What canter work does he know?
If he is motorbiking on corners don't do any speed turns until you have corrected that.

It's possible the tripping is as much foot balance as it is his lack of. You could have a bruised sole, too long toe and the you get a stumble.
Are you in shoes?

 

[jac0015]

If he has poor conformation, I would wonder why he is still a stallion?

If he's gaited are you in trot before you ask for canter. What canter work does he know?
If he is motorbiking on corners don't do any speed turns until you have corrected that.

It's possible the tripping is as much foot balance as it is his lack of. You could have a bruised sole, too long toe and the you get a stumble.
Are you in shoes?

I wonder that too! He is purebred and registered, very sweet temperament, but I would be the first to say he is not breeding quality at all. But I'm in central Brazil (predominantly 'gaucho' type riding culture) where it seems the norm to keep most males as stallions. It is a bit of a hassle because there are a few stallions at the yard that always have to be kept separate or they try to fight each other.

He has a normal canter, but his 'trot' is not a true two-beat trot. It's called a marcha - there is no moment of suspension, always at least one foot on the ground. When he really gets unbalanced in canter he falls back into this gait at high speed.

I have been trying to improve his balance in canter. He's okay on the straight but in a 20m circle he starts leaning . He doesn't rush, just feels unbalanced. As I said in my first post, he's been out of regular work for a while, and before that he mostly did basic riding school stuff, trail rides, etc, so I'm not sure how much 'proper' schooling he's had.

He is shod on all four hooves - at first he was barefoot, but when I started loaning him they put shoes on, presumably because of the increase in work he was getting. Do you think taking them off might help? He has nice hard feet so I think he could go without.

 

[Jessey]

I wouldn’t presume his conformation is making him fall, a narrow chest shouldn’t cause that. His legs shouldn’t be crossing in canter, he should be bent around the riders inside leg, not straight through his body and crossing his legs to turn.

A physical check up would be a good first port of call.

I would be mindful of the motorbiking corners, that can definitely cause a slip. Work on getting him stronger in canter with 100s of transitions, you can just canter the straight for a while using the corners to trot, then progress to doing a measured number of strides, 10 trot then 10 canter and repeat 10 times (done well with clean transitions), then gradually reduce it down to 3 of each, once you are there he will be pretty strong and then tackle longer canters with corners again.

 

[jac0015]

I wouldn’t presume his conformation is making him fall, a narrow chest shouldn’t cause that. His legs shouldn’t be crossing in canter, he should be bent around the riders inside leg, not straight through his body and crossing his legs to turn.

A physical check up would be a good first port of call.

I would be mindful of the motorbiking corners, that can definitely cause a slip. Work on getting him stronger in canter with 100s of transitions, you can just canter the straight for a while using the corners to trot, then progress to doing a measured number of strides, 10 trot then 10 canter and repeat 10 times (done well with clean transitions), then gradually reduce it down to 3 of each, once you are there he will be pretty strong and then tackle longer canters with corners again.

Your first paragraph sums up the problem, I think. He lacks suppleness so instead of bending around my leg, he leans, his quarters drift out, and then to stay on the track of the circle he scrabbles with his front legs.
I really appreciate the suggestions for what exercises to do with him. I was already doing lots of transitions, but not in the way you suggest. Will definitely give these a try once he's been cleared by the vet etc.

 

[Jessey]

Your first paragraph sums up the problem, I think. He lacks suppleness so instead of bending around my leg, he leans, his quarters drift out, and then to stay on the track of the circle he scrabbles with his front legs.
I really appreciate the suggestions for what exercises to do with him. I was already doing lots of transitions, but not in the way you suggest. Will definitely give these a try once he's been cleared by the vet etc.

If he’s lacking suppleness as well carrot stretches are good for helping them develop flexibility, a quick Google pinged this which describes it better than I could!

https://vetmed.tennessee.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/UTCVM_EquineCarrotStretches.pdf

There’s also lots of ridden exercises you can do in slower paces that teach them to bend under saddle, doing things in walk can have a huge impact on canter work. Try things like spirals to really get him flexing and lifting those shoulders.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I am imagining a sort of Paso Fino pony. I love them, though being in the UK I have never met one in the flesh.

I agree with everyone else that it's good to get him checked over, and that helping him to become supple and strong will start to address his balance issues. Working equitation is a discipline that demands a lot of horse and rider, but you don't have to do the work in canter straight away. Practicing the side pass over poles, for example, will really build his chest muscles and help his suppleness.

PS obviously we like hearing about horses but lots of us love to see them too. If you're allowed, please do post a pic of your little stallion...

PPS When I rode in Morocco, all the ridden horses were stallions, too. It must be a horse keeping nightmare!

 

[jac0015]

So many helpful suggestions on this thread - thanks so much everyone. I've got lots of ideas for exercises to do with him now.

I am imagining a sort of Paso Fino pony. I love them, though being in the UK I have never met one in the flesh.

I agree with everyone else that it's good to get him checked over, and that helping him to become supple and strong will start to address his balance issues. Working equitation is a discipline that demands a lot of horse and rider, but you don't have to do the work in canter straight away. Practicing the side pass over poles, for example, will really build his chest muscles and help his suppleness.

PS obviously we like hearing about horses but lots of us love to see them too. If you're allowed, please do post a pic of your little stallion...

PPS When I rode in Morocco, all the ridden horses were stallions, too. It must be a horse keeping nightmare!

He's a Mangalarga Marchador. Here are some pics (these were taken when I first got him - he has put on lots of condition since)

 

[Frances144]

Half halts, collection, half halts and more half halts. Get the engine working from the back end. He sounds unbalanced and lots of little bits of dressage moves will help collect him up so he has better balance. You want him to be rounded and soft.

 

[Skib]

I havent checked this recently but my understanding is that gaited horses do trot in two ways, one (as in English trottin) with the diagonal pairs alternating so the horse leaves the ground, but the other way smoother similar to the Icelandic horse tolt. In Russian there are two different words. Tolstoy uses both words when Levin rides out to inspect his estate in Anna Karenina. The French and Russians both race horses in trot.
I think there were threads on this on NR years ago.

 

[newforest]

I wonder that too! He is purebred and registered, very sweet temperament, but I would be the first to say he is not breeding quality at all. But I'm in central Brazil (predominantly 'gaucho' type riding culture) where it seems the norm to keep most males as stallions. It is a bit of a hassle because there are a few stallions at the yard that always have to be kept separate or they try to fight each other.

He has a normal canter, but his 'trot' is not a true two-beat trot. It's called a marcha - there is no moment of suspension, always at least one foot on the ground. When he really gets unbalanced in canter he falls back into this gait at high speed.

I have been trying to improve his balance in canter. He's okay on the straight but in a 20m circle he starts leaning . He doesn't rush, just feels unbalanced. As I said in my first post, he's been out of regular work for a while, and before that he mostly did basic riding school stuff, trail rides, etc, so I'm not sure how much 'proper' schooling he's had.

He is shod on all four hooves - at first he was barefoot, but when I started loaning him they put shoes on, presumably because of the increase in work he was getting. Do you think taking them off might help? He has nice hard feet so I think he could go without.

Thank you that's really interesting. I love learning about different horses and countries.
I had a quick look of the marcha, I now wonder if some of the tripping is because you don't have a trot and perhaps the tripping is because you've picked up the wrong canter lead?
I have no experience of gaited so can you simply sit that marcha because it's lovely and smooth.

I am also going to put something totally random. How does a horse know it's gaited and doesn't trot like others horses.

 

[jac0015]

Thank you that's really interesting. I love learning about different horses and countries.
I had a quick look of the marcha, I now wonder if some of the tripping is because you don't have a trot and perhaps the tripping is because you've picked up the wrong canter lead?
I have no experience of gaited so can you simply sit that marcha because it's lovely and smooth.

I am also going to put something totally random. How does a horse know it's gaited and doesn't trot like others horses.

He gets the correct canter lead from the marcha most of the time on the first ask, so I don't think that's the problem.

Coming here to Brazil has been my first experience riding gaited horses, so it's taken some getting used to. The marcha is lovely and smooth, so easy to sit to - it's actually harder work to rise to it than to a regular trot, because there's no naturally upward motion to 'push' one out of the saddle.

As to how they know they're gaited or not, I have no idea though have often wondered the same the day I met my pony and tried him out, I very excitedly asked about whether the pony knew how to do the different gaits (me thinking it was a bit of a party trick only done on command, and I would have to ride in a certain way to ask for the gait) , and my instructor seemed bemused at my stupidity and just said, "He's a marchador. He marches."

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

Well whatever, he's beautiful! What an intelligent face he has, and a lovely head.

Do let us know how you get on with him.

 

[jac0015]

Well whatever, he's beautiful! What an intelligent face he has, and a lovely head.

Do let us know how you get on with him.

Thanks! I might be biased but I think he has the sweetest face. He's a very gentle boy and tries very hard, and although I have no great aspirations with him in terms of competing I want to get him going as nicely as he can.

I've arranged with his owner to have him checked and he'll have almost two weeks' off while I'm out of town to rest and get treated, and then we'll see. Will let you all know how it goes.

 

[Frances144]

Gaited horses don't just produce a gait and you go with it. You need to practice and train and help your horse maintain the gait you want or he is offering. Balance is essential to you and the horse.

I would suggest you find a trainer who knows about this breed of horse and it's abilities. I rode gaited horses for many years (icelandic horses) and with training, everything comes together and you are helping your horse produce his best and he will in return be balanced while looking after you too. You will learn the aids required and position for each gait needed and this in turn helps your horse to offer clear gaits and develop the muscles too.

My gaited horse fell when I asked for canter and it was totally my fault. I didn't collect him and set him up properly in a balanced way to transition to canter. He did his best when I gave him the aids, and fell forward, I went over his neck and severely hurt my back. I don't blame him. I blame myself for my lack of experience and knowledge. Gaited horses are not automatically gaited. Get an instructor to show you how to help your horse.