pushing his luck now ........ bad behaviour (long one sorry)

S

speedygonzalez

New Member
Apr 11, 2007
420
0
0
I have had my lovely cob, spike for about 3 months now, and for the 1st few weeks, he was lovely. So quiet, 100% on the roads, lovely sweet manners and i was confident that after a few weeks i put my five year old on him and his behaviour was just perfect. He used to be turned out with sheep and other geldings and he was fine (in his previous home), but at my new yard all the horses are penned individually but can still see each other. When i first moved there we were in the furthest field and the horses in the next paddock were away being schooled, so his only companions were the sheep, but he didnt seem too bothered. I thought that i would be making things easier for myself by bringing him into the nearer field and at least he would have equine company from the mare who he would be penned next to, and he can see the other boys in the next field. Well he was fine for the 1st week, and then he started to get quite clingy with her and he would fret when i bought him in to groom him etc and he even bolted with me a couple of times from the yard back to his field. She has not been in season but her field buddy has recently been sold (they shared pens). When i bring him in he will break the twine where he is tied up, and he trots round and round his stable getting in such a sweaty state and running at the door trying to get out. I find it near on impossible to keep my cool with him as he knocks me over, squashes me against the wall and is darn right rude. I can no longer bring my children down to the yard as he just isnt safe to be around. I bought him in today and he was a total ar$e, barging stomping and really throwing his weight around, to the point the sweat was pouring off of him and he was quivering with anxiety. In a way i feel sorry for him, as i know horses are herd animals, and should live as natural as possible, but many yard owners like horse owners to have their own patches, as it were, to minimise any arguments re poo picking, water, kicking etc. I love the yard im at as there is no bitching and it so much closer to home, and he is able to live out 274 which helps with his c.o.p.d. He has a big pen with plenty of grass and has no short feed at the moment. He has been off of work for the last 2.5 weeks due to lameness (thrush) and was ridden again on thurs just gone, where he was on his toes.

I really dont want to let him get away with this behaviour and i do try to remain calm, but he really pushed his luck today. After i bought him in i gave him 30 mins to try and calm down which didnt work, so i tacked him up and took him into the school, even tho he was sopping wet and was as tense as hell and felt like a tightly coiled spring ready to go "ping". I rode him the best i could and when i felt him tense up i turned him in circle, and carried on until he calmed right down and was pretty tired out. I even managed a little canter at the end where he gave a buck so i asked again on the other rein and he was fine. I managed to walk him in on a long rein and as soon as he got back on the yard he started again. If i turned him back out, he would have won, so i hosed him off and stuck him back into his stable where he then continued with his tantrum. He did eventually calm down after an hour or 2, and was back to his old quiet self. I went to speak to the y.o and asked him if i could move stables, but this wasnt an option, and the further field was now not available. I have now moved him right down the end of the field where he can no longer see the other mare, but he has no contact with any other horses, he can only see the geldings across the other paddock which is about 50m away. Do you think there is anything else i can do to help him, and me for that matter, i am thinking that maybe a herbal calmer might help him. I stayed with him for the whole day until 6 tonight and he seemed totally chilled in his new pen when i left. Any constructive critisism taken as i really put my hands up here as dont know what to do for the best..... have i done the right thing?

Thanks, Laura
 
A horse is a herd animal and they feel unsafe away from other horses. However, as it's not always possible (or convenient) for them to be with other horses, they should be encouraged to go out alone. The person riding the horse (who really doesn't want to be alone) should be confident which in turn gives the horse confidence. Try riding him out alone for short periods, then take him back home. If he messes around, you'll just have to try and persuade him that he'll get home a lot quicker if he behaves. Also, make the hacks interesting for him. Do a bit of schooling (it is possible to school while hacking). Walk, trot and canter, a little jump if possible. Keep him paying attention to you and keep him going forwards. If you ride him out on his own and he's going really well for you, have a little trot or canter and then take him back home. The next day, (or next time you ride) take him a little further. Dont just amble along looking at the scenery (that can come later when he's used to hacking alone). Always try and stay calm yourself. Always try to vary the route so as he doesn't get bored or too familiar with it. Before you try riding him out alone, why dont you take him out in hand for short walks. That would get him used to being out alone and also, he'd have you beside him for reassurance. Hope all goes well.
 
Last edited:
try introduce amother horse so hes not so clingy with just one horse...and try separating him for small periods of time. and then put him back..so he learns thats hes only getting separated temporately.
if he is being bold on purpose (ie doesnt realise hes pinning u to the wall) and pulls away even if your giving him warnings then there is a problem with your and his hierarcy (sp?) . you have to teach him your the boss....if he was in the field and he was that bad to another horse theyd give him a quick bite or kick and hed cop on and behave. you have to basically do this...i believe in reward when hes good (not food orientated!!) and tell him off when hes bold.
a short smack on his neck or rump my solve this. we had one particually bad horse (16.3 of pure muscle) so we had to resort to carrying a whip at all times. he got a little smack (like if u were riding) wen he was bold and a reward when good...took about 2days for him to cop on and we never needed it again.
what else is he getting fed?
maybe lunge him for a bit before is hes to fresh....just to get that 'ping' outta him. then you and him can concentrate on your work.
parelli games may also be of a help in your relationship.
hope this helps...
 
Thanks AFP but hacking isnt really too much of a problem. I hacked him on thursday and he was a bit "looky" and spooked at a sprinkler, and on friday he was a bit better. He is on his toes slightly and a lot quicker on the way back, but its just really taking him from the field to the barn to groom and tack up etc. Its becoming dangerous.

Thanks again,

Laura x
 
Put other horses other than the mare in close range to him to allow him to bond with them as well and lessen the bond with the mare?

See if anyone would consider putting another horse in a paddock with him?

If not just keep going he will settle and realise she is still there, be nice halters or the Monty Roberts head collars have helped me with my lively tb.

It doesnt sound the end of the world really, try ground work in the school putting scary things up so he has to trust and build a bond with you on the ground.

I have had mine nearly a yr and feel he has only just really settled, give him time and he will get there!
 
Practise join up to re-instate who's boss. it could be now his 'herd' is you and him he wants to be the boss of it?? my mare respected me much more after a few sessions of join up. also when mine barges me i look agressive and purposefully ask her(with body language) to get out of my space. if she pulls backwards when tied up i untie her and get her to walk the same direction as she was going but because i say so. you don't need to wear a horse down to be boss but they do need to appreciate your space is not for them to take over.
 
I used to take Jess' field companion away for a few mins and then bring him back. I know how you feel, jess can stand there like a saint and have legged it half way across the field next minute, she also squishes me!

I grab her head and spin her back and tell her no! she is taking time and when she is concentrating she is good its only when she gets excited. I had someone come and help me with her, which i found really helpful!
 
Oooh he sounds just like my boy :rolleyes:

The problem you are having at the moment is that he doesn't seem to see you as a "safe person" , by that I mean he doesn't look to you and someone to take his confidence from which is why when he is away from the herd he feels he is all alone and gets in a paddy about it. I know it's hard when they are clearly anxious to be firm with them as you feel you are being mean to an already upset horse but actually the firmer and more consistant you are the kinder you are being - if you assert yourself as the boss in the situation you are taking that responsibility and worry away from him of being on his own, he needs to learn that you make the decisions and therefore when he is with you he can trust you to let him know a situation is safe and he doesn't need to rush back to the herd.

Day to day I would NOT allow any bargeing, this is something Alps has a habit of doing when he gets upset about something and will happily crush you against walls or mow you down - and I will NOT have it no matter how anxious he seems to be, as you say it is dangerous and there is no excuse. He is welcome to be upset about something but I am still the boss and flattening me is never acceptable! Don't be afraid to be firm, at the end of the day he has to learn to sit up and take notice of you so that he can learn to look to you for comfort instead of panicing.

You have time against you as you have really had him a relatively short time, so I'd be tempted to do a bit of work just taking him away from the other horses asking him to stand while you give him a 5 minute groom, praising him and putting him back out etc. Demand respect at all times though, do not be afraid to be tough with him just because he is scared - horses are not natural leaders (especially not geldings) and will happily look to us to take charge, when they feel they can't respect us in turn they don't look to us for confidence and get themselves in a tizz about things. If you are having trouble controlling him try leading in a bridle or a pressure halter at first.

Alps is not perfect, he will have tantrums in his stable and barge around and rear up in there if he feels he's being unfairly treated (e.g. being brought in to be ridden in the day, despite there being others also in and him not being at all alone or worried :rolleyes: ) but I know I can walk in and tie him up and tack him up because I demand that respect from him. As a result he is much calmer and happier knowing that whatever is upsetting him I am a strong leader and I decide when we should be worried and when not... in which case he can stop being such a plonker and do as I say thank you :p
 
Thanks a lot for the last comment, I hate to be too harsh with as i do worry that i will frighten him, and i really punnished myself the other day when i gave him a wollop or 2 and shouted at him for running me over and tanking me to the barn gate. I really lost my temper as i hate being disrespected either by people or animals. Being a mother i try to be assertive but fair, and look at both angles of his behaviour ie him not being allowed to do what he is doing and act on that by being firm, but look at why he is doing it and try my best to offer him some comfort as he is obviously distressed. I am hoping this week to give him some time to unattach himself from the mare, but still let him see the boys over the fence in the next field, so at least he doest feel totally alone. I am going to bring him up to the barn at least once a day and groom and fuss him and if he is calm offer him a few carrots in a bucket. ill stay with him for a bit and ride him in the paddock, take him back to the barn brush him off and put him back in his field. im sure with doing this every day he will calm right down and ill be able to hack out again and he will be back to his donkey like self in no time. ill give him a week to calm his nerves naturally and failing that i will try a herbal calmer but still keep the same routine. Thanks all for your help, i'll let you know how we get on. I have a show on july 1st so hopefully he will have got her out of his head by then lol.

...................Men !!!

Laura xxx
 
I was very pleased when I read this thread, as I spent yesterday fretting about much the same thing. I've only had my boy (TB Gelding, 13 yrs) since Saturday though, so I know I am expecting too much too soon. Apologies to those who have read this on the other thread...

He was very stressed when he arrived, really sweating and nervous but after an nour or two in his stable munching hay he was much better. He spent the night in his stable then turned him out in the field. All went well with the other two, much running around and playful behaviour but no trouble at all and now they're all stuck together like glue. On Sunday evening I went to feed him and give him a brush. He came to me in the field, but when I got him into the yard he got really stressed again. He wouldn't stand, wouldn't eat and kept calling to other horses. I had to put him in his stable, but he still wouldn't eat and just wanted to get back to the others.

Made some progress this morning though, I went down to check on him and he's got two bites on his flank which weren't there last night. So I decided to bring him in and clean them up. I tried to bring him in but his fieldmate (young, boisterous rig who's enormous!) started chasing us and I had to let Wanny go as he was getting in a state.

I decided to try again and not let the two of them decide what the outcome would be so this time I was much firmer with Wanny and with the rig, just shouted at him and waved my arms around a lot to keep him away. The yard's enclosed, so I just let him wander about while I sorted out his food etc. I managed to brush him and pick out his feet while he was eating, and his pal just stood at the gate and watched quietly. After cleaning his bites I turned him back out again.

Baby steps...
 
ditto angelfben.

I don't mean to soundharsh, but please don't wallop him again.
it will get you nowhere - as will the chifney - as what you really need is to establish a good, stable relationship based on trust and respect for each other and this is only earnt through training your horse and learning to work with each other rather than aiming to control him and ending up in a fight with a scared orse and in a dangerous position.
a chifney will only mask the problem, and probably make it worse as it treats the symptoms, not the underlying cause.
happy horses don't behave like this, so by spending some quality, non-confrontational time working on the ground doing basic NH exercises will help enormously.
using his comfort zones and pushing the boundaries (yours included) may be necessary to do this, but i'm sure you will get there in the end with a firm but fair attitude. :)
try to aim for a balance of praise and correcting him: your atticude should be assertive rather than passive or aggressive.

perhaps reading some Kelly Marks and/or Michael Peace may help?

Good luck
X
 
Last edited:
All the best let us know how you get on :)

I have walloped Alps when he has been dangerous, if it is a choice between giving him a whack or him seriously injuring me as he has me pinned against a wall then self preservation kicks in. Most of the time body language is as effective though - big wavy hands, get OUT of my space angry mummy voice on! Soon as he backs off revert back to being very calm, "good lad" and carry on with what you are doing. Just work on having this very calm, superior air about you all the time with him - someone once told me whether we like it or not horses make assessments of us, they are looking all the time for us to show we know exactly what we are doing and they can trust us to know what we are doing... of course we don't always so sometimes we have to pretend ;):D

With anxious horses it is tempting to pander to them and try and reassure them but they are often much better off when you are just calm, firm and bussiness-like with them. Almost ignore there worried behaviour alltogether if you can as you need to make a point that you can not see any reason for their silliness and you are just going to get on with what you are doing as there is nothing to be worried about.

Don't lose heart, as I said you have had him such a short time in the great scheme of things it will take time to build a relationship - I've had my boy over 2 years and we still have our moments! :rolleyes:
 
lead him in his bridle and with gloves on you so you have more control. If horses are behaving like this leading them in a head collar is no use you have little control! I would also carry a whip. I am not advocating violence at all but you cannot allow a horse to behave in such a way that it threatens your safety.
I think you definately did the right thing by moving him away from this mare - is there any chance he could be a rig? have seens this kind of behaviour with them before.
 
i learned that he had sired a few foals b4 he was cut - pretty late im told, so he knows what its all about. if he doesnt calm down i will try rigcalm, altho he was an angel 2day.

laura. x
 
I used to have a rig, was as quiet as a mouse when kept with geldings but a total nightmare if he ran with mares - reared, kicked, bit, lashed out, bolted -you name it! :eek: But if he was kept away from mares he was a total charm! :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
newrider.com
Top Bottom
Back