Rearing and bouncing!!!!

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Widget

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Mar 29, 2004
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My mare was backed at 3 in a rough and heavy handed way. Not by me! She was ridden in a pelham from the first week as she would not stop in a snaffle and a schooling whip was used for acceleration as she did not move forward off the leg.(I dont think she was actually taught to move off the leg, it appears to have been assumed that she would automatically know what it meant!) She was never schooled as she just followed another horse out on hacks. In the 5 months she was ridden, I am told she was strong and spooky and prone to rear. She had sharp teeth which I have had sorted.
She has had 4 months off and turned out with me and I now want to re start her. Lunging and long reining have gone great! She is happy to be mounted and is not at all worried about having me on her back. Also she is in a snaffle and a treeless saddle now. She is still prone to rear and sort of bounces/rodeos with all 4 feet off the ground if scared or excited.:eek: Not really bucking, just sort of jumping up and down! She does this maybe once during a training session. Yesterday I got on and rode her for the first time. She was on the lunge to begin with and we only walked. She was fine walking around untill someone rode past the arena. She stopped dead to look and stuck her tail and head right up. I kept asking her on with my voice and gently with my legs and tried to gently turn her head to get her moving. She suddenly reared right up and spun round and did 3 laps on the lunge leaping up and down at a canter! Finally got her stopped, gave her a moment then asked her on again. She walked on like a lamb as if nothing had happened. She was let off the lunge after a bit and we walked 2 laps on each rein round the whole arena with no hiccups. How should I handle this behaviour? She didnt seem scared. More like she just used it as an excuse to be silly. I stayed on but not sure I will every time and I dont want her to learn to get me off. She has never thrown anyone but has reared and gone over on her rider once. Sorry its long but I could really use some advice.
 
Omg.. I'm so sorry for you both. That poor horse getting started that way! I like to think with all the horse whisperers out there that we came a long way in understanding "horse". But then you hear stories of this appalling method. (and it's obvious aftermath)

Rearing is so d%mned scary and dangerous it's not even funny. I'm glad you've given her a break and am starting over with a better method than whoever started her before. :(

I'm sorry I don't have any advice at this point as I'm no trainer but believe you're well on your way to fixing these problems for her. I hope you'll update us with your progress.
 
It will be no big deal ... you shouldn't have to ride through these episodes if she gives you enough warning (which she does - tail and head up - probably bug-eyes too if you could see them !) and if you notice what she's telling you (which you do - good job !)

I would stop riding her on the lunge because you are going to need control of her feet. Now, get on and walk her round, being really alert to the signs she's giving you. This could make you tense up, so deliberately exaggerate being relaxed - slop your legs around a little, flump your shoulders, sing a little song ... the macarena always works for me ... and be acutely aware of when she's going to have a little hissy-fit.

Whenever you ride her, don't just let her amble around because that's asking her to look out for distractions. Instead, practice lateral flexion, disengaging the hindquarters, yieldding the forequarters, backing up ... all the 'move your feet exercises that have become part of your groundwork with her. This keeps her mind busy.

Now, as soon as she gives you the sign that she's about to freak - start moving her feet - for me, I would have her immediately disengage the hindquarters - step over a full 360 at the back, then back up ten paces, stop turn on the haunches, walk forwards, ten paces back, spin in the disengage circle ....whew ! Her little pony head will be spinning just a little and she'll be trying to collect her thoughts... 'now, what was I going to do before I got busy there - ah, yes, wheeling and bucking hmmm, nah, actually, I think I'll just stop here awhile and maybes a nice quiet walk ...'

(clearly, the actual 'move your feet' exercises that you choose to do will depend on what your 'safe place' exercises are that you've established on the ground. Personally, I won't be riding a youngster until I have the disengage, yield of the forehand and back real good fom the ground, but I appreciate she might have been started a little different)
 
Thanks guys. I generally know well in advance that she is about to blow. I did on sunday too but unfortunately the person on the other end of the lunge insisted we continue walking on. My idea had been for her to take hold of her on a short rein so she could observe the oncoming horses but not go anywhere. Eventually she will go to a professional trainer but money is tight so I want to sort this myself so she can go off and be schooled. I would rather not have to pay out just for anti rearing lessons!
Kate, you mention disengaging her hindquarters. How best to teach this? She does forward and back and circles both on long lines and mounted, however she does not understand sideways! She does turn on the forhand sort of but only in hand and only if I take her head round to her side. Any tips?
 
Hey Widget,

the early use of lateral movement is where IMHO the 'new' western trainers over here, have been making a huge improvement to the way we handle horse training. It's such a pity that it's not making much of a headway over in europe, because there's so much 'common sense' in it.

(a little bit of background because you shouldn't really take internet advice from someone you don't know aon something as important as your young horse ! : I'm english, grew up with horses in england, and went on to groom for showjumpers in europe, then got out of horses, and had nothing to do with them until last year over here in the US when I started my first 2 babies. Coming back into horses in a foreign culture meant I had to do a heap of research into current thinking - so I'm not a devotee of anyone's methods, but broadly find that the gaining control by moving their feet is a huge improvement over my hit and miss methods of the past )

I, or maybe 'we Natural horsemanship type-of-thing-trainers' tend to do a lot more of what looks like 'informal groundwork' in just a string halter, on a regular lead line than is currently fashionable in england. And there's a big difference in how we view 'lunging'. We would lunge a horse very dynamically, lots of stops and turns. The idea is to get his attention - he would be cued from body-language alone - no verbal cue, and no sidereins or anything like that. We'd never out a rider on his back, on the lunge line because that totally prevents teh rider from being able to move the horse's feet. That same exercise, where you want someone on the ground helping and directing the horse is a great one, but we do it without a line attached 'free-lunging' as it were.

OK, the wonderful disengage, and the 1-rein-stop. This is the single most awesome exercise I have in my toolbox :)

Start on the ground.
exercise 1 : the hula hoop. Stand and face yout horse, get his undivided attention. He has 2 eyes on you. If his attention wanders, bring it bakc with a little bump on the halter. He has to keep out of your hula-hoop - a 4ft space around you. If he comes too far forward, back him up with energy.

exercise 2 : disengage the HQ : stand at his shoulder, petting him and rubbing him all over so he's relaxed. Your body-language is passive. Now, step back, and look a whole lot more meaningful - not 'scary' but step back then stare hard at his nearest hind leg and step towards it (that's your first cue- whish of course he ignores). Raise one hand to prevent him walking forward and tip his head towards you just a little. Now 'up your energy' of your cue ... with your stick, tap the air up near his hip, rhythmically. tap-tap-tap... you are looking for him to step that hindleg away. Raise the energy of your tapping until he steps away tap-tap-tap-TAP-TAP-TAP ... now as soon as he steps away you stop tapping, relax, exhale, go back to rubbing and petting all over.

Now ask again, remembering to go back to the very softest cue - just the change in body language - staring at the leg, and then take the tapping as far as you need. Eventually, you want the leg to step right over the other leg. they must cross. It's no good if he just shuffles it alongside the other foot. Eventually, you can ask him to keep stepping over for a complete circle.

exercise 3 : lateral flexion : have a search through threads here fo this - I explained it recently - you're practicing the horse turning it's head and neck round to the side for softness.

Phew ! Once you're going good with those on teh ground, they all transfer to the saddle (well, not the hula-hoop one !). yOu ask for the disengage first from a halt using one rein and one leg. The horse can't brace against it like he can any other request, because you've really got him off balance - there's nowhere for him to go but round, and when he does, he gets instant release.

this same exercise from walk and above becomes the one-rein-stop you have him step over until he comes to rest. Once you've got it, you'll wonder how you ever felt safe on a young horse without it !
 
Wow thanks for that! I think Im on the right track but need to take it further. I work her in a rope halter when on the ground and she will already back out of my space when I turn and look her in the eye. I have not been using a stick in any way as I wanted to get away from her previous treatment. This means that when I have tried to move her hind, im moving so far back to reach it the she turns round to follow me! I will try with a stick as you suggest. It makes sense to get control of her feet.
I was thinking that having her on the lunge was safer somehow as somebody else had control. In reality all it did was make her leap in circles not straight lines!! Thankyou for your help. Off to search for the other threads now!
 
Widget,

I have the same problems with my spooky/excitable gelding and know exactly how you feel. They just get tranced by something else going on and trying to move them or ask for work is really difficult. It's a bit like a rabbit in headlights.

Kate,

Have you been taught these ground work techniques or are they based on a particular writer/trainer. I have used many different ways in ground work, lunging really doesn't work that well for the boy, so some new ideas would be great. I also find that he gets real bored if I repeat exercises and his mind wanders while the body works on auto pilot. Maybe you have a link or book that would give me some fresh ideas.

Many thanks
 
Hi Giveitago, when I was starting my two last year, I bought an 'entry level' book from everyone I could think or hear of... Lyons, Parelli, Anderson ... (didn't really know much of any of them). The single most accessible, well-explained value-for-money resource has to be Clinton Anderson's 'Establishing Respect and Control for the English and Western Rider'. It's full of pictures which is nice or my poor old brain to understand. I started both my two just on following that book - and it goes on to saddle work too. His disengaging the hindquarters, the 'send' exercises and the lateral flexion are things I can't remember how I did without !! All the other trainers have their own equivalents, but I find his the easiest and most effective. He 's pretty good on pointing out what these things can lead on to so you can take it as far as you want and not get bored.

(I know, I sound like a huge CA fan - I kind of am, just cos it works so well :) )

Kate
 
My idea had been for her to take hold of her on a short rein so she could observe the oncoming horses but not go anywhere
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Heya! Sounds like a horse fulla - beans!!

Hmm .. from this quote, the first thing that popped into my head after reading this was a question. Why should you make a fuss and hold the reins tighter to get the horse to learn to alow other horses to come past. From experience, and usually as a general rule - what you think the horses' feet will do. So .. in other words, if you tense up, he will pick up on that in an instant - before you realise it. So tightening the reins gives him the signal 'oh god .. what's going to happen? Why is she holding my mouth with contact?? What is she preparing for .. go!! I have to go!! I dont understand!! ..zoom..'

Try to relax, take a deep breath and carry on as normal. If he starts to raise his head, ask him to relax by turning away (inwards) to change direction, do a turn on the haunches (when he is fit enough), just take his mind off it so he will realise 'i am here to work, not to show off'.

But hey .. if all else fails, one rein stops works :p The horse cannot buck/rear/'bounce'/kick whilst in this position.

Also .. if he gets hot a lot ... try teaching him the 'head down' cue. When the horses' head is below wither height a natural drug is realised into the body and naturally calms the horse down into a calm state.

I also wouldnt be riding just yet ... ground work goes a long way!

Good luck! cant wait to see some piccies
 
My idea had been for her to take hold of her on a short rein so she could observe the oncoming horses but not go anywhere
Click to expand...

Sorry, haven't got time to read the whole thread but just wanted to comment on this. The problem with that approach is that you really don't give her ANYWHERE to go but UP! Not the result that you want.

When madam goes up (thankfully doesn't do it anymore ...touch wood) I do a quick tug with the inside hand, kick her on and then loosen off the reins (pretty much all at the same time). This has a couple of effects ... it makes her go forwards, it turns her so that she can't keep on going up (though she does do a very good line in 'rear pirouette'), she has somewhere to go instead of up AND she doesn't have anything to help her lever herself up with.
 
I didn't mean that I wanted her to hang on tight and I didn't shorten my reins or increase the contact. When I am lunging her and horses go down the track, she always speeds up and jumps about. When turned out she is in a field that also borders this track and she zooms about along the hedge and races them. If I am leading her round the arena she stops to look at them till they pass and then she turns her attention back to me with no gymnastics. I had no intention of forcibly restraining her. I would just rather avoid a potential issue if possible by putting her in a comfortable postion BEFORE she starts rather than having to correct her once she starts playing up. As it was the first time on her back I wanted to make it as simple and nice as possible. Strange horses riding past is a distraction I could do without but its a bridleway so not much I can do about that! Is it wrong to avoid conflict at this stage? Even with my older sensible mare, I avoid situations where she may play up if it is easily possible.
 
No - it's a great thing to avoid conlict at this stage. In fact at any stage - you're 'managing' the conflict. That's what gives truth to the line we tell our horses 'trust me, I'm a great leader fo you'. You go right ahead, make things easy, fun and rewarding for her and for you two together. Conflict can be introduced gradually, later in the form of 'challenges' :)
 
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