Saddle doesn't fit - no idea where to begin looking next

annareeves0

annareeves0

Active Member
Dec 18, 2007
3,301
13
38
55
Bournemouth, Dorset
This time last year Rosie was getting a few White hairs across her withers so her saddle wasn't working. She was in a Heather Moffat fhoenix (older model which I still have) Tried a suber pad and didn't get on with it all - I felt perched and dry patches still the same. I gave in to my lack of expertise and called in a saddler, well known guy from Fordindbridge. Purchase a thoroughgood T6 synthetic on his advice. Have new gullet and reflocking done in Feb as she's lost weight over winter. This week I go to put back pre winter gullet as she's put the weight back on. Both the gullets I have, although different colours are exacty the same size!!! Drive all the way to fordingbridge where he tells me one has 'stretched' (is this possible?) and gives me a wider gullet 'for my trouble' as my two same size gullets are pinching a bit. Change gullet and it seems better but today still have quite small dry patches and to my horror the entire area, about the size of a hand, on both sides behind her shoulder is growing through totally solid White :(
Now I really don't know what to do - stay with new gullet or try looking for something else? What else? Am utterly flummoxed by all the options and pretty pissed off that despite trying hard to get it right I'm actually causing physical harm :(
 
Oh dear :frown:

Did you try taking the panels out of your Fhoenix and using the suberpad?

Or maybe try a lot wider gullet in the Thorowgood and try the suber under it?
 
I tried the gullet on over my ponys back, behind the withers, with no saddle. In my case, I was gobsmacked at how the angle of the gullet didn't match the angle of his back, and the points would clearly dig in. (in my case, I had already sorted a wider saddle, I was just trying the gullet out of curiosity) I would have had to go up 2 gullets at least before it fitted. It is much easier to see the angle when its just the gullet - you can obviously allow a couple of centimeters to imagine the gullet within the saddle, but it is the ANGLE which is important, not just the overall width.

When the fitter sorted Harrys saddle, she fitted it wider, and then padded it, to allow the muscle damage room to repair. So No-Angels idea of a wider gullet and padding seems a good one.

Just re-read your post - am I right that the problems started after re-stuffing? It is entirely possble the saddler was over enthusiastic with the stuffing in the wither area, and it is too firm. maybe even rounded out to a convex shape, pressing in on the area behind her withers. Also, not totally sure, but am I right to think damage enough to cause white hair is fairly long term? ie. it might not be what has happened most recently which is causing the white hair, more something a while ago??
 
Last edited:
Jesus ! :eek: I'm so sorry to hear that AnnaReeves, I know Joyscarer is in Paris at the moment, but it might be worth a PM for her saddler details ? I know that the saddler she uses, I think Flump did as well, and she might travel over to you. I have only ever heard great things about the saddler she has used.
 
I too had "issues" with the thorowgood gullets but on a T4 - two gullets meant to be same size and were totally different.... I "think" it's quite a common issue too!

Good saddlers are very hard to come by - hope you manage to get this sorted out soon
 
Jane feasly at longacre in borely green near botley. She's into wholistic care. Loves barefoot and bitless but not pushy. Doesn't like treeless though. Will check the horse over first before moving onto measurements and fitting.

Really hope you get this sorted Hun xx
 
Feel like a utterly crap and horrible mother today and am in tears at what ice done to her. Got a bit sweaty today and when I brushed her the extent of the White patches is apparent. Apart from feeling really guilty I am also mortally embarrassed by the state of her.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing - the rushing away once mounted that I took for eagerness and fitness, the bucking into canter that she has done on and off since I had her I thought was just about my lazy ask or high spirits, the rushing around, taking ages to relax etc.
I rode in my old fhoenix today and that's what brought me to tears as she was so different. First few steps were a rush but she stopped as soon as I asked and then immediately her back was really relaxed with lots of movement and swing. Offered trot several times and was stretching loads, flexors were much better - came right round for a treat.
Someone I know is selling a Parelli saddle so am going to do some investigating. May also contact The saddler recommends - thanks for the heads up
 
I hope you get this sorted soon. Have you tried a softer treeless, like a Libra Trec? I have used these with various ponies and there doesn't seem to be anything that could rub, as they are so flexible (more like a bareback pad than anything).

Perhaps I have just been lucky, but haven't had any problems with a Libra saddle since I started using them 4 years ago.

Ali x
 
I thi AR0 had a hackabout, but didnt settle with it but loved her trec - Im not convinced on distribution of stirrup pressure in it though - especially with AR0 doing longer rides/endurance... \\youll have to do all your rides stirrupless AR0 :giggle:
 
I'm really impressed that you remembered I loved my trec but not the hackabout! Both were fine until I started doing anything more than minimal trotting when we had issues around dry spots and pressure. Perhaps I could learn to just walk and canter???? Only problem is we love to trot!
I think I might try and do the odd day at walk in a treeless as she moves so freely. Walked up and down loads of hills today. She offered a lovely canter uphill which I took as seemed happy in the fhoenix although I wasn't happy with the dry patches at walk. Had deliberately left the girth quite loose in case that was part of the problem.
Been looking at the Parelli saddles and the theraflex pads. Can't afford the saddle but could do the pad. Seems to work on the principle of a wide girth and then shimming below to reduce pressure and lift front? I can see the logic. Anyone have any thoughts/experience of this as a technique? Could this work - get a wider gullet and pad below it? Thinking the theraflex or something like the mattes pad as that has shims?
 
annareeves0 said:
This time last year Rosie was getting a few White hairs across her withers so her saddle wasn't working. She was in a Heather Moffat fhoenix (older model which I still have) Tried a suber pad and didn't get on with it all - I felt perched and dry patches still the same. I gave in to my lack of expertise and called in a saddler, well known guy from Fordindbridge. Purchase a thoroughgood T6 synthetic on his advice. Have new gullet and reflocking done in Feb as she's lost weight over winter. This week I go to put back pre winter gullet as she's put the weight back on. Both the gullets I have, although different colours are exacty the same size!!! Drive all the way to fordingbridge where he tells me one has 'stretched' (is this possible?) and gives me a wider gullet 'for my trouble' as my two same size gullets are pinching a bit. Change gullet and it seems better but today still have quite small dry patches and to my horror the entire area, about the size of a hand, on both sides behind her shoulder is growing through totally solid White :(
Now I really don't know what to do - stay with new gullet or try looking for something else? What else? Am utterly flummoxed by all the options and pretty pissed off that despite trying hard to get it right I'm actually causing physical harm :(
Click to expand...

Hiya.
i fund it hard to believe that the gullett has stretched on it's own!!! what you need to be careful of is that someone has not altered the gullett..i have seen a lot where people have tried to open them up or narrowed them themselves..
which is not a good idea as you usually finish up with the angles being different..
i dicovered yesterday here in SA that a tack shop are making there own wintec/bates gullett plates!!!! and selling them as the originals.. and the angles are all wrong..
The white hair is obviously cause for concern..i would not use a saddle for a while to give this area time to repair..in a lot of cases the hair will revert back once the cause has been removed..
good luck.
 
poohsmate said:
Hiya.
i fund it hard to believe that the gullett has stretched on it's own!!! what you need to be careful of is that someone has not altered the gullett..i have seen a lot where people have tried to open them up or narrowed them themselves..
which is not a good idea as you usually finish up with the angles being different..
Click to expand...
I bought the saddle brand new from the saddler and got the 2nd gullet when he reflocked it earlier in the year. I certainly havent done anything to it. I can only presume that when he replaced it he gave me a dodgy one or maybe a 2nd hand one?

The white hair is obviously cause for concern..i would not use a saddle for a while to give this area time to repair..in a lot of cases the hair will revert back once the cause has been removed..
Click to expand...
Thats why Ive gone back to my treeless. Still pressure but in a different place! Ive been taking it easy and mainly walking. Guess my endurance ride in two weeks is out of the window :(

Any thoughts on a too wide gullet and padding to lift it?
 
Could you not do the same shimming principle with the Fhoenix?

Take the panels out and use the suber you have, or your HAF if you still have it and put extra foam in to give some extra cushioning under the stirrup bars?

I did endurance (on a TB ex racer so different build of horse) with a Fhoenix and used an Equitex pad under it, I felt it just gave me that extra bit of reassurance.

Saddles like the Sensation, or my Torsion Duo have a bottom stirrup position which keeps away pressure from the back but still allows you to use your stirrups. (If you liked your Libra maybe have an extra stirrup point added to the bottom of the flap?)

Or do some of the ride without stirrups if you find you are riding with too much weight in the stirrups.

Balance saddles work on a similar shimming system to the Parelli saddles, they have wide saddles and then pad up to fit.
 
No_Angel said:
Could you not do the same shimming principle with the Fhoenix?
Click to expand...
I wouldnt admit it at the time but its too small for me! I got used to it as I rode in it regularly but having gone back to it, its obvious. It puts me in a bit of a weird position and is just too short. Its going on Ebay! i dont think i have enough faith in it to get another.

Take the panels out and use the suber you have, or your HAF if you still have it and put extra foam in to give some extra cushioning under the stirrup bars?
Click to expand...
Sorry should have said, sold suber pad on again quite quickly so dont have it to try. Ive found if I use the Haf pad with the thorowgood I get a lot of scuffing. I did get extra upholstry foam pads but never found they made much difference really.
Perhaps I should also say I have been using a full sheepskin pad under the T6.

Saddles like the Sensation, or my Torsion Duo have a bottom stirrup position which keeps away pressure from the back but still allows you to use your stirrups. (If you liked your Libra maybe have an extra stirrup point added to the bottom of the flap?)
Click to expand...
Never heard of a bottom stirrup position - whats that all about?

Balance saddles work on a similar shimming system to the Parelli saddles, they have wide saddles and then pad up to fit.
Click to expand...
Ill investigate. Does it come with a specific balance pad?
 
I think you can get pads made for the balance saddles.


With Sensation saddles you have 3 choices of attaching stirrups.
1. Standard freeswing like on a treed saddle,attaches to a ring/bar under the seat
2. Hard use which attaches to a ring/buckle/strap at the bottom of the saddle flap and under the seat to distribute pressure but still gives you more movement in your leg.
3. Endurance which attaches to a ring/buckle/strap at the bottom of the saddle flap and keeps all pressure away from the horses back.


The Torsion that I have
http://www.dreamteamproducts.com/torsion-products-treeless_saddles-Duo.php

My Torsion, you can see the stirrups are on the 'endurance' setting here
10e4ltx.jpg


And in 'Hard Use' here
2uqkw8z.jpg
 
Why don't you look at a second hand Freeform? They are used for endurance - in fact I think someone won the Tevis Cup in a Freeform which seems to be an extremely gruelling endurance race. And you can get short back Freeforms which would probably suit Rosie.

I would think Rosie is flat backed enough to be happy in that.

I did have a Freeform but although Tobes is fat(!), he does have a wither and I just stressed about the shimming all the time.

Friend (who you met) had a Wintec fitted to her by a saddler. After much nagging from me (because I cannot believe a saddle can change widths with a gullet front to back), she bought a barefoot and her horse is much much happier with it.

Good luck with it all - saddle fitting is an absolute nightmare.
 
Can I be really nosey and ask what drove you to try a treeless in the first place Anna ?

Hearing about what has happened with Rosie has left me a quite :unsure: about my own horse now, as I still have niggles (he's girthy and didn't come to me girthy but he had a flamin AWFUL saddle, physio was horrified by it) but I don't know if my niggles are just constant worry anyway.

I was talking to a livery about it the other day and she kindly offered me her treeless saddle to try, however I declined as I know they have a weight limit on them not far off what I currently weigh (saying that though, my old RI knew my weight when I was heavier and she put me in one on her horse hmmmm) but I'm just getting tempted with the idea that treeless saddles might be an idea for us as he is such and awkward bloomin fit.
 
Im gonna have to admit that my weight is a big part of the issue but i dont think its ALL me!

I originally tried treeless as I wanted a really cheap saddle as I wasnt sure i was ever going to ride again and didnt want to waste my money if my confidence wasnt going to be able to take it. So I bought the libra trec as a whole cheap and cheerful package and loved it. However Im a couple of stone over its actual weight limit and once I started upping the miles the stitching stretched and Rosie was getting dry patches. I bought the fhoenix because Id heard such rave reviews, it was a 'name' so I thought that meant it was trust worthy, and it is beautiful leather and quality and the memory foam is fabulous. We did a little canter in it this week (as Rosie offered!) and it was sooo comfortable - it moulds to your bum and really cushions you.

I like the concept of treeless - no hard bits digging in or rubbing and the amount of feeling you get from the horse beneath you is amazing. I can feel her heart beat and every swing of her back and ribs and really feel very connected to her. I think this allows me to be a much better and more in tune rider. The downsides are, its a killer on the hips but once you get used to it, it becomes normal and you dont think anything of it, but the biggest thing is distributing weight effectively from the stirrups. Trot is our natural gait and where we are happiest to settle into and just keep going. In the fhoenix this puts too much pressure across her wither and caused a few white hairs. If we did less trotting we'd probably get away with it? She had been bucking occasionally into canter but not sure if that was the saddle or not. I think it was moving quite a lit at the back - i seem to remember having some rubbing issues? Having put it on, I noted it naturally sits much further back than my treed and really gives her lots of shoulder freedom.

That all sounds quite negative but I have had way more problems in my treed. Very similar problems but more extreme. The pressure whilst trotting is going onto the gullet points and causing massive problems. Most of this is about the fact that the gullet was too small - she had put on more weight fatsre than Id thought and although she weighs less than when she was orginally fitted for it, i have borrowed my friends even wider (grey widest they do) gullet and that seems better although Im still not convinced it wide enough.

I havent sat it in yet - just put it on yesterday and moved her around in it. She wasnt very happy but was happier when I moved it right back. Perhaps Ive had it too far forward?

For all my stressing I am wondering if I can make my existing saddle work. The t6 has 4 girth straps fixings - one right at the front, two in the middle that I was advised to use and then the 4th is behind but has a two point fixing. I wondered if I used that 4th girth strap it would bring the back of the saddle down a bit and help keep the front raised? I dont know what those back straps are for!

I also wondered about getting something like a prolite pad to raise the front a little and help spread the pressure?

Could these 2 options work? In terms of my position i like the parelli style sat back effect rather than straight up so am happier if saddle lifts at the front very slightly?
 
newrider.com
Top Bottom
Back