Share your views, thinking, thoughts on this pony, wwyd
- Thread starter newforest
- Start date
I don't see how she isn't in pain, looking at the other fore there's clearly been/is laminitis from it being constantly overloaded and I don't doubt there's a lot of muscle tightness throughout her body from compensating too. Not my pony so not my call, but based on what I can see I wouldn't be prepared to let one carry on like that when there's no hope of improvement.
The decision is to go for a special shoe and splint to straighten the leg and let the body adjust back into its natural position.
My thinking is, if she's happy which is what the new owner keeps saying, then why do anything beyond sort the laminitic hooves. If they do not plan to put down, then leave her alone. She's being used as a living learning tool and I am not comfortable with that.
It's interesting as a discussion that some people can have views and opinions and others would need to see the animal in question first. If you ask ten people the same question you will get ten different answers, so I get that.
I sort of feel as a society, nation, world that you can actually do what you like with your own horse.
How you ride, treat them, manage them.
If you think about the racing industry, some people will say that's cruel, unfair to the horse - but if you haven't ever been racing or seen them in training how can you then have a view or opinion?
My thinking is, if she's happy which is what the new owner keeps saying, then why do anything beyond sort the laminitic hooves. If they do not plan to put down, then leave her alone. She's being used as a living learning tool and I am not comfortable with that.
It's interesting as a discussion that some people can have views and opinions and others would need to see the animal in question first. If you ask ten people the same question you will get ten different answers, so I get that.
I sort of feel as a society, nation, world that you can actually do what you like with your own horse.
How you ride, treat them, manage them.
If you think about the racing industry, some people will say that's cruel, unfair to the horse - but if you haven't ever been racing or seen them in training how can you then have a view or opinion?
I think people are perfectly entitled to have an opinion (educated or otherwise), doesnt mean i have to agree with it.
Do i on principle agree with keeping horses in boxes for 24 hours a day except when they are ridden. No. Do i think a lot of people do this and their horses are very well cared for? Yes. Would I choose this life for my horses. No.
I know someone who spent 10's of 1000's of pounds on their horse, didnt agree with their decision either, depsite an ultimately good outcome, since it ruined their life.
Do i on principle agree with keeping horses in boxes for 24 hours a day except when they are ridden. No. Do i think a lot of people do this and their horses are very well cared for? Yes. Would I choose this life for my horses. No.
I know someone who spent 10's of 1000's of pounds on their horse, didnt agree with their decision either, depsite an ultimately good outcome, since it ruined their life.
I believe you can have an opinion on things without seeing them in person, it just might not be a very educated opinion depending on what it is on.
If you are not breaking any laws you can do what you like with your animals, they are your property.
If you are not breaking any laws you can do what you like with your animals, they are your property.
So what is your view and opinion, the current owner is now saying they don't know what to do.
Two professional vets who have seen the pony have both advised they are put down on welfare grounds.
The third who did the xrays said they are the worst they've ever seen.
Initially looking at the xrays and seeing how bad they were, it was going to be a pts.
Then they started looking into things and if she does decide to straighten the leg, the pony will need will need the tendons cutting and a cast. She didn't want to put the pony through that. It will need a big amount of funds, time, adding on extra weight to a chronic lami hoof that's really out of shape, it was 50/50 on whether it would work.
If the pony is as happy as she says she is, then nothing needs to be done. She can just be trimmed gradually to help movement and balance.
But that's the thing, this pony is a living case study to learn from, so leaving them alone isn't ever going to be an option.
Eta, my spelling.
Two professional vets who have seen the pony have both advised they are put down on welfare grounds.
The third who did the xrays said they are the worst they've ever seen.
Initially looking at the xrays and seeing how bad they were, it was going to be a pts.
Then they started looking into things and if she does decide to straighten the leg, the pony will need will need the tendons cutting and a cast. She didn't want to put the pony through that. It will need a big amount of funds, time, adding on extra weight to a chronic lami hoof that's really out of shape, it was 50/50 on whether it would work.
If the pony is as happy as she says she is, then nothing needs to be done. She can just be trimmed gradually to help movement and balance.
But that's the thing, this pony is a living case study to learn from, so leaving them alone isn't ever going to be an option.
Eta, my spelling.
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If I was working with a case like this the first thing I would do personally is a quality of life assessment which looks at many many aspects, I'd also keep a diary of behaviour and add to that pain scores. I let the vets deal with the X-rays etc.
Sometimes I put myself in the animals shoes. If you was this horse what would you want? You can think of it in different ways too, what about if I had lots of pain, or minimal pain or no pain. Would I want the opportunity to regain some normality. Would I choose to die? Depending on your ethics and morals any decision made can be seen as right, wrong or somewhere in between. You've mentioned about not wanting to test on this horse, but what if the surgery was a success and lots of future horses survive because of it?
Sometimes I put myself in the animals shoes. If you was this horse what would you want? You can think of it in different ways too, what about if I had lots of pain, or minimal pain or no pain. Would I want the opportunity to regain some normality. Would I choose to die? Depending on your ethics and morals any decision made can be seen as right, wrong or somewhere in between. You've mentioned about not wanting to test on this horse, but what if the surgery was a success and lots of future horses survive because of it?
There is no right or wrong for our own animal let alone one on the internet. Whatever we think, feel, see isn't wrong or right, that's why I decided to start a discussion.
Are you saying you would treat and see how it goes.
If this pony was at a vet for tests to learn from, it would feel different than being owned by someone who is emotionally involved and needs to raise thousands of pounds to carry on with the treatment.
Where I sit at the moment.
I was at the pts, I am now thinking IF they are happy and IF they are not in pain that can't managed, trim and look after until such time when that changes. That's giving them a chance. I wouldn't want to be doing any surgery.
We can't imo use ourselves in that animals shoes. We are predators with access to a voice and the nhs and private sector. A pony is a prey animal that will to an extent carry on regardless.
I have seen the cob in pain and it's an awful sight. So I get the looks happy appearance, as we briefly lost it.
Are you saying you would treat and see how it goes.
If this pony was at a vet for tests to learn from, it would feel different than being owned by someone who is emotionally involved and needs to raise thousands of pounds to carry on with the treatment.
Where I sit at the moment.
I was at the pts, I am now thinking IF they are happy and IF they are not in pain that can't managed, trim and look after until such time when that changes. That's giving them a chance. I wouldn't want to be doing any surgery.
We can't imo use ourselves in that animals shoes. We are predators with access to a voice and the nhs and private sector. A pony is a prey animal that will to an extent carry on regardless.
I have seen the cob in pain and it's an awful sight. So I get the looks happy appearance, as we briefly lost it.
By putting myself into the animals shoes I mean I take into account the animals nature, personality, behavior, condition etc and imagine that if I was them, what would I think would be the best course of action.
Just as an example a horse with this sort of issue but you know them, so you know the horse is anxious and hates being in a stable or hates travelling then they would maybe choose the less treatment the better option. Or the horse is miserable, painful, weak, given up then perhaps they would choose pts. On the other hand they are good natured, curious, otherwise bright then maybe they would pick the surgery. It's all only what ifs and maybes, might not make much sense, but I like using it at work to help make the best environment possible and treatment plans for patients.
Just as an example a horse with this sort of issue but you know them, so you know the horse is anxious and hates being in a stable or hates travelling then they would maybe choose the less treatment the better option. Or the horse is miserable, painful, weak, given up then perhaps they would choose pts. On the other hand they are good natured, curious, otherwise bright then maybe they would pick the surgery. It's all only what ifs and maybes, might not make much sense, but I like using it at work to help make the best environment possible and treatment plans for patients.
It would be interesting to see a closer clear shot of her face to see if that shows pain markers, the little bit I can see there looks like there may be. Nothing I can say or do will alter what the owner decides though so I'm bowing out of this thread now because I find it upsetting.
I have a few close shots because she was talking about the eyelashes pointing downwards.
Someone had mentioned that this can be a sign of a metabolic issue. But I don't know if the glucose test results are back yet.
I won't be adding anything to this thread unless there is something significant to add to it.
When and if the pony is no longer with us, I will remove the thread.
Someone had mentioned that this can be a sign of a metabolic issue. But I don't know if the glucose test results are back yet.
I won't be adding anything to this thread unless there is something significant to add to it.
When and if the pony is no longer with us, I will remove the thread.
I just saw the video of her grazing (she’s getting 10 minutes) and she did appear quite content, not close up enough to see much facial expression detail though. Owner said she is sore, and struggles with the herd due to her mobility and she still hasn’t decided what she is going to do with her but that quality of life is priority while she decides.
If you have seen the same photos and video footage as I have shared stills from, what are your thoughts, wwyd.
For me apart from the expense of the special shoe and cast. It's going to create pain and pressure sores without cutting the tendons. It's a long road as you still have chronic laminitis in the other three hooves.
The cushings results aren't back yet I don't think.
If the pony is happy and content why do you need to do anything at all? Why not just make the last few weeks of their life as comfortable as possible. Because it's safe to say they can't live like they are longterm.
For me apart from the expense of the special shoe and cast. It's going to create pain and pressure sores without cutting the tendons. It's a long road as you still have chronic laminitis in the other three hooves.
The cushings results aren't back yet I don't think.
If the pony is happy and content why do you need to do anything at all? Why not just make the last few weeks of their life as comfortable as possible. Because it's safe to say they can't live like they are longterm.
As I said at the start I wouldn't try to fix it. I would put the pony down especially if I had got it knowing that would likely be the outcome. But as before I don't wish to share an opinion on weather or not I think the current owner is right or wrong, she is different to me, in a different position, with different resources, and has the benefit of being hands on with the pony, I don't want to discuss the morality of it.
ETA I think I must have seen a different video, as I said she was grazing, which all of your pics/stills seem to be on concrete/tarmac.
ETA I think I must have seen a different video, as I said she was grazing, which all of your pics/stills seem to be on concrete/tarmac.
I sort of feel we shouldn't be having any opinion based on this thread. We are a) not the owner and b) not there to see the pony in real life.
I would be mortified if someone was discussing my equine care and decisions on a forum which I didn't know about and couldn't respond to. Absolutely mortified.
I would be mortified if someone was discussing my equine care and decisions on a forum which I didn't know about and couldn't respond to. Absolutely mortified.
I hear what you are saying.
This is a scientific case study for learning and discussion. It's on an educational website, it's not someone beloved pet. So the welfare concerns me.
I havent named anyone, the website, the pony or the location.
I havent shared the xrays that I saw last night because the owner requests that I don't do this. I haven't and I won't until they choose to put that in the public domain.
The pony now has laminitis in the right weight bearing hoof. So they've got extra protection in the form of padding.
This is a scientific case study for learning and discussion. It's on an educational website, it's not someone beloved pet. So the welfare concerns me.
I havent named anyone, the website, the pony or the location.
I havent shared the xrays that I saw last night because the owner requests that I don't do this. I haven't and I won't until they choose to put that in the public domain.
The pony now has laminitis in the right weight bearing hoof. So they've got extra protection in the form of padding.
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