So it's bad, need advice - update

Doodle92

Doodle92

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Apr 6, 2021
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The scan was today. It's worse. We don't know what is going on. As the vet put it "he won't have an athletic future". Although he seems sound and marching out he is sore on palpation. Hope now is to retire him to the field, however that wont happen straight away.

Vet now wants at least another 2 months in before scanning again. Is now saying this could take a year. I'm ever so slightly peeved he had initially said 3-4 months back to full work and that he had us walking out ect too early. Who knows if that has caused the trouble.

I cannot ethically have him in for a year. He has done 11 weeks. Initially yesterday vet said another 6-8 weeks, which has already stretched out to 10 as he will be away first week in Feb, so leave till after that. That would mean he would be in for 5 months with no end in sight.

My worry then is let's do another 2 months, then another and so on.

ATM he is "fine" but he is desperate to be doing more.

So my initial thoughts were ok let's do the next 2 months. However at that point he is turned out. Either it is healed enough to cope or it's not. The risk is that it's not and it will snap and then he probably dosnt have a future.

However he also is 17 with arthritis. His hocks are already getting stuff as noted my the farrier last time. In 2 months will be better even more stiff. Vet said then we could look at more joint injections, but really is this actually ethical? Would we actually be doing that for him or for us.

I am not convinced he would be a horse to semi retire happily. Heikes to hack and he marches, he sees.no point in ambling around. Vet had said in this 2 months he could go out and do a slow 5 mins walk each day. He is getting quite explosive, is generally good but I can't stop him from having the odd leap and he certainly dosnt walk slowly.

Or do I "give up" and turf him out and he can take his chances? Do I give him another month and weather dependent put him out then? It would still be in at night and just out for a few hours. The winter field is 13 acres! Lots of grass and 2 calm companions so hopefully he would stuff his face

If it was summer he could have had a small pen in a field, but it's not, the yard isn't ideal for small flat pens anyway.

My thought was for farrier next time to take off his back shoes. If he is in or even out in the day and no work, he dosnt need them and if hocks are getting stiff anyway.

I have had no sleep and just going round and round in my head.
 
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I didn't want to look and not reply. but I don't want to give any reply without thinking about it. So for now all I'll say is don't rush into anything, it's not an emergency decision, and don't go down the line of thinking "if only I'd done this" or "if only I hadn't done that" because it won't change anything. Be gentle with yourself, and I'll get back to you later when I've had time to thonk of a proper reply rather than a knee jerk one.
 
I’m so sorry to hear that, not what you were hoping to hear xx

I think I would be asking another vet’s opinion ^^you just said you’ve asked for that. I would also be doing research, not dr google, but look at vet research papers and vet books, for success rates and treatment options. My vet book would probably say turn out for a year, but I can’t remember his specific injury just now to look it up?
After all that I would probably give myself a few days to get over the shock, then call the vet again and have this exact conversation with them when I’ve got all my options straight in my head.
 
So sorry to read this. Speaking with the vet and getting a second opion from another vet is probably the best option right now.
 
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I won't advise you on your specific situation but I went through similar with Ale's check ligament, which was a complete tear.

Repeat scans kept showing not a lot of healing and he did approx 5 months in. Scans showed a huge amount of scar tissue and it wasn't completely healed.

By this point I was up to an hour of inhand walking a day but the vet wanted me to introduce trotting in hand, Ale exploded and it just wasn't safe. I'd had enough and he had most definitely had enough of being in.

So I turned him out, small paddock for a few hours to start with gradually building up to back out in the large herd field.

I can't remember the exact time frame but I had it scanned again which showed it was healed by with a huge amount of scar tissue. The vet was very cautious but he actually came back into work for a couple of years, very slowly of course, and did fab even back to some jumping again.

It was then that he started showing pain, he had investigations and his sacro and hocks were diagnosed. And then I retired him due to that, not the check ligament.

That was 9 years ago almost. He gets a puffy leg sometimes and has arthritis in that leg but not chronically. Everyone told me he needed a job and was bored but honestly I think he's never been happier as he's not in pain from being ridden, he's much nicer and I think happy.

I know how lucky I got! But there isn't really a right answer, hopefully you'll get some good advice from the vets and can make a new plan that works for you
 
Oh that is rubbish news. I am really sorry. :(

I dont know the extent of the damage my horse did to his as never bothered to scan, but he was dog lame, huge egg shaped swelling and it was hot as anything.

We did the rest, icing, hosing etc but never got to the controlled walking as he broke out of his little paddock, went galloping with the horses next door and looked worse after that than he did at the beginning. He was also miserable and 17/18 so made the decision to put him back out with his mates 24/7 in his normal big field. Still iced and hosed.

When he looked sound enough in walk he started hacking. 5 mins under saddle (inhand was dangerous) on smooth flat roads and built it up very, very slowly. Time line to normal flat work in the school from 1st injury was about 18 months. He hasnt ever jumped more than the odd x pole and log in the way out hacking again though.

We rolled a dice and got lucky. It was also spring going into summer so the ground was good as slipping and sliding would have been the worst thing. Im not sure if i would lob him out now unless you can find a perfect field with decent ground that will stay that way, but I would still not give up all hope of a reasonable recovery from my experience.
 
Thankyou everyone. I feel terrible but I have asked a friend to do him for me this afternoon.

The hard bit is he has never been lame apart from slightly off the very first day. He sees no reason why we are just walking for 5 mins.

However he is very bright and happy. I was looking at him this morning thinking how can you look so well and happy and be so broken.

One of the other liveries is actually a vet nurse at the practice. I said I had asked for Hugh to have a look and hoped that wasn't cheeky. She said the 2 vets would communicate anyway and he has been following it (it was that vet who I spoke to initially who said we had to be careful as from photos he thought check ligament). We are not in the situation where we need to decide anything now so a chat in a few days would be good

I think the issue is it isn't a classical presentation of a check ligament injury and it is not responding as expected.

Vet yesterday did say there may be a miracle and he is just healing very slowly. When I think about it then wound on his elbow took forever to heal. I was just lulled with how well his fracture healed maybe.

I am so so so glad i moved him. This yard he is so much happier in, I think he is starting to move round his box more which is possibly a good thing but he doesn't seem stressed. The people are lovely, really lovely. If I was still at other yard it would be a different question to answer.

I need to do the extra 2 months. Dec and Jan are miserable anyway. But I think at that 2 months mark he has either showed some healing or not. If he has then I would be happy with another month increasing the work until march and hopefully better weather. If there is no improvement or he gets worse meantime then he can go out and take his chances really. Of course this is if vet agrees. Meantime I cross everything that we have success. He has bounced back before

I need to focus that just now while I'm sure he wound rather be out he is actually perfectly happy and settled in.

Thankyou all so much for me having a brain dump and sensible replies, you have all really helped 😍
 
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As for the lovely liveries the vet nurse left me 2 choc oranges this morning "I know it dosnt fix the issue but chocolate always helps". How nice was that? Made me tear up again.
 
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I think what puzzles me is he's got worse while on box rest, does the vet have any idea why that is? Although you're not dealing with the suspensory could it be something similar to PSD? I think getting the lameness expert to look at the scans - all of them, not just the latest - is a good idea, it's not a criticism of the vet dealing with him that sometimes a fresh pair of eyes is needed.

If he was mine and he's happy as he is then I'd give him the 2 months before making any decisions but I'd be using that time to come up with options depending what the next scans show. I'd also be thinking how far I'd be prepared to go in terms of treatment, though be prepared to change those plans depending on the feedack Robin gives you.

Your livery yard, and more importantly the people on it,sounds wonderful. People often complain about yards but at times like this being on the right one can stop you feeling so alone and desperate, Try not to shut yourself away from such supportive friends xx
 
That's what we all can't understand, the getting worse. He has been so.good, he has the odd moment but generally he has been brilliant . I have followed the advice to the letter. He was fine one day, next day swollen and slightly sore. Scan showed a hole, which was unexpected due to lack.of.swelling and lameness. The first return scan showed a bigger hole that looked like it had sorted of opened up. This time the whole ligament is enlarged and more rips although there is less blackness of a hole. Tbh I didn't properly "see" the scans when vet explained them.

Don't get me wrong this vet is a special lameness vet. I am lucky that it's an equine only practise and so all the vets specialise to one respect or another. However the head of the practice is the real.guru. He has seen the previous scans and they have consulted from the start but it would be useful for him to have a look even if he can say no this is hopeless or this just needs more time.

I think if he was 7 I would be doing everything possible and doing as long a box rest as is required. Equally if it was his first issue I would be doing the same. But for the past 18months he has been off or rehabing, although that is from 3 different things.
 
Spoke to vet again today who had spoken to Hugh and they had had a sit down chat and look at the scans. Hugh isn't worried about it. He is confident there will be a positive and he will be fine. It will just take time. Vet basically apologised for initially saying 3-4 months.

I am happy to give him the time and the box rest if there is a decent chance of a good outcome, which head vet is confident about happening. He also thought more laser might help and has suggested once a week for 6 weeks. So we will do that.

So I feel much happier. He is very unstressed about life. He was flat out asleep snoring and dreaming this morning apparently and this is him just now, so we just have to keep going and see where we are in February. I am deliberately NOT looking at his leg other than a quick glance to check it is not a tree trunk.

 
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That's really good news :D . Watching that clip he may nt be impressed when he's expected to start doing something, he's very chilled in!
 
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Oh I am very glad to hear this. As the owner of a leg that isn't healing I can relate! Healing slowly is much, much better than not healing at all. Hurrah!
 
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chunky monkey said:
So sorry to read this. Speaking with the vet and getting a second opion from another vet is probably the best option right now.
Click to expand...
Agree. When the first vet that removed her hoof tumor he thought it was cancer but then a second opinion determined it was just cells going a little haywire from all the trauma.
All the crying and sleepless nights from her first diagnosis ended up for nothing.
I hope a second opinion brings better news for you too
 
KarinUS said:
Agree. When the first vet that removed her hoof tumor he thought it was cancer but then a second opinion determined it was just cells going a little haywire from all the trauma.
All the crying and sleepless nights from her first diagnosis ended up for nothing.
I hope a second opinion brings better news for you too
Click to expand...
I updated a couple of posts up.
 
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