Sub for Alpha A Oil

graciemoo

graciemoo

graciemoo.co.uk
Mar 5, 2008
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Northumberland/Newcastle
www.graciemoo.co.uk
Having had the farrier up to Buddy on Sunday, he was explaining how the spread of his feet is due to too much acid. He suggested changing from the Alpha A Oil he has at the minute.
I am not very clued up on feeds so would like any advice (with reasons for the suggestion also).

When I got Buddy, as a 5yo in Oct 08, he was your typical scrawny, no muscle 5yo who hadn't done much consistent work.
I started him on Conditioning Cubes, Speedi-beet and Alpha A Oil. After one month, with work also, this didn't seem to be helping, so I switched to Alpha A Oil, Pony Nuts, Top Spec feed balancer. This has worked lovely, and he has built up in all the right places over the winter. He had 1 scoop Alpha and 1 scoop pony nuts.
Because this seems to have worked with him so well, I am relucant to take him off the Feed Balancer.
However, in recent days I have noticed when you box him, as he turns in the stable to get haylage, he reaches down for a mouthful of straw. For this I was going to re-introduce the speedi-beet.
He eats breakfast and tea well, and has ad-lib good quality haylage every night - and he has a lot. He eats it all by the morning. He drinks just under one large tubtrug of water per night.

But basically, what suggestions do people have?
Farrier recommended Primero Total (mix feed) but like I say, I am reluctant to take him off what seems to work to keep his condition.

Cookies if you got to the end of that!! :rolleyes:
 
I've personally have never heard of a feed causing a difference to foot confo (i.e feed increasing the spread - I assume you mean flare?) but I'm no foot guru so ...

Also, AFAIK, Alfalfa is an alkalizing food.. Soya beans are usually thought of as an acidifying food but depending on the list author can be found on the alkalizing side. I would think you would have to feed gallons more than what is in Alfa Oil to have an effect on the blood ?

I suppose if you wanted to take the acidizing element out you could simply remove the oil but the whole reasoning sounds a bit iffy to me...perhaps someone else will know more.
 
I've personally have never heard of a feed causing a differene to foot confo (i.e the spread - as in flare ?) but I'm no foot guru so ...
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Unfortunately it can and does with some horses, I have living proof of it in my stable:rolleyes: I'm not quite sure where your farrier is coming from regarding acid though, unless he's pointing at some sort of imbalance in the gut triggering laminitic type symptoms. The usual culprit in barefoot circles is considered to be too much sugar and starch in the diet, and my experiences with Tess and her seasonally collapsing feet bear this out. Alfa Oil is actually a good feed in those terms as it's unmollassed, I would hazard that it's an overload of spring grass that is the real cause of your problems.
 
I'm going to hazard a guess that your farrier means flare due to a gut imbalance (laminitis type symptoms) and in this case he might be recommending moving away from Alfalfa because in some horses (like mine!) it can trigger laminitic symptoms and removing it from their diet causes the metabolism to settle down.

Finding alfalfa free feeds however is difficult so mine are on Badminton Easy Rider and Allan and Page Ride and Relax with the recommended dose of Feedmark Benevit multivitamins.
 
Yann said:
Unfortunately it can and does with some horses, I have living proof of it in my stable:rolleyes:
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Well.. I learn something new everyday :) ..

I've never had a feed cause anything more sinister than different growth rates / improvement/decrease in horn quality .. and I feed a lot of Alfalfa ..Just lucky I suppose :confused:

Would it make a difference because they are shod ? (Although the Shetland isn't shod but he is muzzled and doesn't get much Alfa - no change in his feet either apart from trims are closer together in Summer but no change in flare/foot confo)

ETA - Just thought - perhaps I never noticed because it never becomes an issue ? Excess flare/length is never allowed to develop so I never noticed ? Although over here I think I'd get sectioned for mentioning that feed can be a reason for spread/flare.. I'd simply be told to get a new farrier that doesn't let it happen!
 
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What about Bailey's OutShine - have never fed it but have had a sample and it looks like nice stuff. It has quite a high oil content so would be good for adding/maintaining condition, but isn't alfalfa-based.
 
Well.. I learn something new everyday ..
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I did too! :) I bought a nice little Tb one late spring with neat hooves, albeit with flat soles, the vet even commented on how nice they were considering her breeding at the vetting. Fast forward a couple of months and those neat feet had gone totally splat and the farrier I was using at the time basically waved his white flag, so I decided to try and fix the situation barefoot, which took some effort as the feet were so poor. Six months later (mid winter) all the flare was gone, the flat soles were starting to concave and she was comfortable on anything other than stones. A year later and we were back to square one frankly, a pattern that has repeated since. It seems that it will happen shod or not, but having to leave enough wall for the farrier to nail in to means it's harder to deal with shod. Her diet is based on alfalfa (unmollassed) all year round, so that's not the cause in her case.

For various reasons she's now shod again and turned out in a muzzle, I'm hoping that it will make a difference this year, if it does it will prove it beyond any reasonable doubt. There are plenty of similar case studies knocking around.
 
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Graciemoo, it might be worth getting into the habit of checking his feet for heat in the coronet band area and a raised digital pulse on a regular basis if you don't already, because both those symptoms always seem to accompany my horse's feet flaring. If you notice any differences which relate to time of day, stabling or turnout, and weather, be it wet or dry then it could well be grass that's the problem. If not then the culprit may well be something completely different.
 
Yann said:
I did too! :) I bought a nice little Tb one late spring with neat hooves, albeit with flat soles, the vet even commented on how nice they were considering her breeding at the vetting. Fast forward a couple of months and those neat feet had gone totally splat and the farrier I was using at the time basically waved his white flag, so I decided to try and fix the situation barefoot, which took some effort as the feet were so poor. Six months later (mid winter) all the flare was gone, the flat soles were starting to concave and she was comfortable on anything other than stones. A year later and we were back to square one frankly, a pattern that has repeated since. It seems that it will happen shod or not, but having to leave enough wall for the farrier to nail in to means it's harder to deal with shod. Her diet is based on alfalfa (unmollassed) all year round, so that's not the cause in her case.
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That's interesting, wonder what causes it - I mean it must be a metabolic issue in that certain horses react to the grass content in a certain way for their feet to collapse.. Hmmm..

I've never seen the problem with any of my TB's, even the ones with thin/flat soles although the effects of the grass may have existed but never became obvious due to the farrier - never had feet go splat ? .. I dunno :confused:
 
That's interesting, wonder what causes it - I mean it must be a metabolic issue in that certain horses react to the grass content in a certain way for their feet to collapse.. Hmmm..
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The theory is that it's a kind of slow motion founder, the laminae are compromised and separate and the gap can fill with intertubular horn, there isn't always visible white line separation at ground level. The heat in the foot and pulses, along with increased hoof sensitivity during times of rapid grass growth do seem to tie in with this.

You do generally see a little more flare even on good feet through the spring and summer, I just think some horses are simply more prone, and some pastures are more likely to cause problems than others. Another Tb at our yard suffered with a similar but not quite so drastic version.
 
Yann said:
The theory is that it's a kind of slow motion founder, the laminae are compromised and separate and the gap can fill with intertubular horn, there isn't always visible white line separation at ground level. The heat in the foot and pulses, along with increased hoof sensitivity during times of rapid grass growth do seem to tie in with this.
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I've just read basically that in a longer form! :) website called Hoofrehabinfo or something.. :)

You do generally see a little more flare even on good feet through the spring and summer
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I would expect to see extra growth but would never expect it to become too obvious or a problem - that's what my farrier is for! To correct it and keep the foot shape where it should be :) That's why I think I've never come across feet getting like that.. they might actually be prone to splatting but farrier keeps it from occurring / being an issue so have never considered it..

I do have their feet done more often in summer than winter as they grow faster.. Stan can go 8 weeks in winter sometimes but never more than 6 in summer, but I usually have him done every 5 for a trim and re-set, new shoes only every 2 set. Trigger (unshod) can go 11 weeks in winter between trims but never more than 8 in summer.

I just think some horses are simply more prone, and some pastures are more likely to cause problems than others. Another Tb at our yard suffered with a similar but not quite so drastic version.
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We have rich ex-dairy land which gets stupidly lush, Trigger is muzzled 24/7 from March until Oct/Nov but I never worry about Stanny. But maybe it does make a difference which is offset by such regular trims/shoeing.
 
Hoofrehab :D That site is a brilliant resource for anyone interested in feet, shod or not. I'm not sure what the answer is, most of the other horses at our yard, including Rio have good or excellent feet and no particular problems, I just think some horses are susceptible and even good routine hoof care at normal intervals won't keep it in check. I resorted to lightly trimming Tess fortnightly and even weekly at times to try and keep it in check, but only the grass settling down and the flare growing out fixes it.
 
Yann said:
I just think some horses are susceptible and even good routine hoof care at normal intervals won't keep it in check. .
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I am just lucky so! :) Am glad I am too.. thought I had it rough with G's pathetic feet which were flat and were, at times, more filler than foot but clearly I'm blessed not having to deal with splatty feet.. :D I shan't knock the situ!
 
I wouldn't worry too much about him craving fibre (eating his bed), Quitus is fed a fibre based diet, Hay at night, and twice a day Alfa A Oil and Ride & Relax and he eats his bed now and again just because he's a weirdo.. Had vet and nutritionist assess him! They basically called him a retard ;)
 
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