Too much hay?

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carthorse

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My YO & I are having ongoing "discussions" about the amount of hay my horse gets so I thought I'd get a few opinions on here.

Jim is a 16.2 9yo ID gelding who weighs 670kg on my weightape. He's out for 6-8 hours a day on poor grazing & schooled for approx 30-45min a day 4 or 5 times a week & goes for a short walk hack once or occassionally twice a week. The length & intensity of the schooling has been gradually increasing as he recovered from a health problem & will continue to increase until he's doing about an hour of mostly trot & canter. The surface is a bit deep but not dangerously so, just makes it slightly harder work.

I've been feeding him ad-lib hay, which for him seems to work out at about 5 slices a night from a big square bale. I bought this hay specially for him as it's cleaner than the hay available on the yard, he doesn't cough on it & he prefers it. It's about the equivalent of nearly a small bale of hay a day! He gets very little "hard" feed - half a dozen Luciebix, a double handful of bran mash & 3/4 of a scoop Saracen Re-Leve (cereal free). He also gets Benevit, U-Gard Plus & Cortaflex. He is a bit overweight but not badly so & he's very gradually losing weight as his work increases.

The reason behind the vast amount of hay is he's a cribber & earlier in the year this caused a lot of health problems. The U-Gard Plus & ad-lib hay seem to be solving the problem (along with a little Cribbox occasionally) but if I cut his hay or put it in a net to make it last longer within a day or two there'll be crib marks on the door again (haynets are just too much effort :rolleyes:). He seems to have plenty of energy for his work, has a fantastic coat, his feet are better than they used to be & he seems a little calmer most of the time. However YO strongly disapproves of this diet, frequently (loudly & in public) comments on his hay belly & feels he should get max 2 slices plus a lot more hard feed - "horses shouldn't get that much roughage & a working horse needs cereals". My AI feels he looks fine & is working well.

Opinions? I don't want to do him any harm but to be honest this way of feeding really seems to suit him.

Sorry for how long this is :eek:.
 
not to sound rude, but stuff what anyone else says. i feel quite strongly about the management of cribbing and the likes - they're the equine version of a mental disorder. just because it may be fairly common does not make it acceptable or 'ok' in any way, yet people seem to bypass this.
your horse must still have forage when you visit him forst thing in the morning. if he has eaten all his hay (1kg of unsoaked hay takes an average of 20mins to eat, bear in mind) and there is none in the morning then you need to give him more. it's no good to him if he runs out of food at 10pm or 1am. what's he going to do for the next 7-10 hours or so?
his hard feed seems ok, though i'm a bit concerned about all the different things you are giving him. if you asked me, i wouldn't say the luciebix or bran mash are necessary at all. bran, over time, weakens the boines as it riobs them of calcium and dramatically distorts the calcium:phosphorus ratio (the most common mineral imbalance in horses' diets).
the rest of it is fine: i'm especially pleased that you are feeding a mineral and vitamin supplement (the Benevit) to balance out the ration since you're not feeding the recommended levels of Re-Leve for your horse to have a alanced diet from that alone.don't forget that the more you feed, the less your horse can use from all of it.

you can always use toys - would you like me to suggest some free/cheap ones to can create?
 
Don't see a problem with that at all. Silver has about that much in the winter and he is about the same as your boy, just a bit lighter according to the weight tape.

Cept Silver is on the luciebix and no other forage feed in his dinner just vit and mineral supp, magnesium, salt and cortaflex. He would quite comfortably eat up to 7 slices a day (had about 5 or less hours turnout).

Your keeping an eye on him and monitoring him closer. Your upping his exercise as you see fit and so in my eyes doing fine. Hay belly is not a true indicator of 'fatness' anyway, if you can get him working properly and using his tummy muscles to lift his back you should help tone up the belly! Silver has had two weeks off and his belly is bloated again (hes out 24/7 more or less) but its just to lack of toning. Watch out for apple bums, cresty necks and fat pads on their shoulders.

Its a common misconception that horses in work need lots of hard feed and less forage. All horses need more forage than hard feed and they certainly don't all need cereal-based food - mine certainly survives nice and dandy without it! Horses are designed to trickle feed and not eat huge meals in one sitting.

My advise would be to keep doing what your doing and ignore your YO, its none of their business at the end of the day. I'd love to know their reasoning behind "horses shouldn't get that much roughage" Beggars belief it really is :rolleyes:
 
If you're really not sure get the vets opinon then politely tell YO to mind her own business! (Well, do that anyway). I don't think there is a problem if he's not grossly overweight and your riding instructor thinks he looks ok and is going well? Knickers - there is always somebody poking their nose in.......!!
 
Your on the right track :) and sounds like your YO is stuck in the " old way" of thinking about horses diets.

I have a cribber and if i even give him as much as an oat he goes nuts, so is on a total forage diet. I take him SJ and showing, we hack for hours all on a hay and grass only. Do what is best for your boy and stuff what everyone else says to you.

If YO is that bad can you move yards?
 
Hay dosn't put weight (unlike hayledge which is high in sugars) on they can have it ad-lib as it has a very very low nutritional value and it's even better when it's soaked as even less nutrients and dust in. Keep him on ad lib as it's stopping his vice and it's good because he has something in his gut all the time as long periods withod feed/foredge in their gut can lead to colic which some owners don't understand :(
 
I used to put 2 large haynets a night up for Captain in the Winter. YO used to go spare. Bloody cheek really cause I was on DIY and bought my own hay in. How I feed my horse is my business and nobody elses. Hay is very good for horses. Would rather feed hay than bung in loads of un-natural hard feed. ;)
 
Oh there's no way I'm changing his ration unless someone tells me, & can confirm by scientific research, that there is a risk to this much hay. I'm old fashioned - if the horse looks good, has sufficient energy & is happy then as far as I'm concerned he's being fed correctly ;). I just wish feeding him correctly didn't involve so much weightlifting or money!

Puzzles thanks for the offer about toys but he really isn't interested in them, in fact he often thought I'd put monsters in his stable :rolleyes:. A small amount of bran is actually perfectly ok to feed with the Luciebix because alfalfa is very high in calcium so it effectively balances out the ratio & if anything was going to be dropped from his diet at this point it would be the Re-Leve as I'm only keeping him on a low amount of it at the moment because I know he'll need it when he's in full work & in the winter - his stomach is sensitive & I don't like to change his diet too much if I can help it.

Chewitmonster he always looks fatter if he has a couple of days off or a day off & a hack. When he was out of work completely he started looking like Mr Blobby!

Redcedar my YO is lovely in many ways she just has a bit of a blind spot on this. I'd struggle to find somewhere that suited us all so well, let alone that I could afford.

Showjumper-zoe while I know soaking his hay would take some of the feed value out he won't eat anything that's been soaked for much more than an hour & it's bad enough carting that much hay around dry, wet just doesn't bear thinking about :eek:
 
Depending on the quality & type of the hay, yes it can make a horse gain weight.

I think you're doing your horse service by sticking to your guns! Good for you. It would be interesting to scope her horses' stomachs (the ones that eat more hard feeds in ratio to hay). It would be interesting to see how many have ulcers?

Horses can go a few hours without food, it's after 4 hrs of having an empty stomach that it starts to disrupt the flora in the gut.

Honestly if your horse is not wasting any of the food you are giving him & the fact that he's a little fleshy, I think you have his diet pretty well managed. Especially when you can see that his hunger doesn't change - only his waist line when you up his work load.

This past winter, I knew my mares needed something more to stay warm, they recieved each a small bale a day only. But our winters are pretty cold here so I started giving them hard feed: a maintenance roughage cube for the easy keeper (500gr) & senior nuggets for my older mare. Both were getting soaked beet pulp added also. I knew when to stop increasing the feed when there was left over hay in the morning. Once the cold spell was over, the hard feeds diminished until none was given in the spring. Then the beet pulp was stopped.

Now the hay is being replaced by the grass slowly.

All they have extra year round is their mineral/vitamin block & plain salt lick.

My senior arab/QH is nice & trim while the appy is still a bit fleshy (she's a very easy keeper).

Uhmmmm do you have pictures?:rolleyes: :D
 
LMS I don't have pictures, I'm afraid I'm not very technical (that's putting it mildly) & don't even have a photobucket account let alone know how to post pictures onto a forum :eek:.
 
Carthorse, simply put hay is grass - horses evolved to eat grass, it is only humans who insist on feeding alien things like cereals to them, large ammount of hay in it self won't cause any problems, hay/fibre feeds keep the gut moving slowly which is how it was designed to work, this maintains optimum stomach function, which clearly is very important for your horse :p The only time hay could cause a problem is in a very easy keeper, when they gain too much weight then you get weight related issues.
My 15hh 4yo mare when in work and on no grass will eat a bale of hay a day, she isn't overweight and is a happy camper :D I also have a 15.1 anglo arab and they have no grass in their paddock, they get rounds of hay put out and access to them 24/7, a round bale lasts the 2 of them about a week to 10 days :eek: :p
 
I personally would rather spend the money on good quality hay and let the horse eat as much as he wants than fill him with concentrates and make him stand with an empty stomach and nothing to do. If your horse didnt need all that hay he wouldn't eat it!!! Nobody knows your horse better than you, i would tell the yard owner to get stuffed and if she didnt agree with your way of feeding move the horse to another yard. The way your YO is reacting is bang out of order!!!
 
Hes a big horse so does need pleanty hay. And as said- horses evolved eating forage not cereals. Stick to your guns, if he puts weight on the vut the hay down, but if your riding and he is at a stable weight then leave be. Dont fix what isnt broken, even if some people are insisting.
 
You're doing the right thing by giving plenty of hay. A horse's digestion is that of a 'trickle feeder' and is not helped by periods of time with nothing going into it.
Unless there are other reasons not to give ad lib hay (matabolic reasons etc) then keep up the regime.
You can use small hole haynets to make the hay last longer. I like to give some in haynets, and some in a heap on the floor, as eating from the floor position is better for the teeth.
 
Well if LMS's kind guide to posting pictures works here are a few of him from earlier this week. See what you all think of how he looks on "too much" hay.

He's now doing about an hour of schooling with lots of trot & canter.These pics were taken at the very end of a session so he was getting a little bit droopy (so was I!) but we'd forgotten I brought a camera until we'd finished :rolleyes:

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Doris I agree I wouldn't want him carrying more but if he stays at this weight I'm not too bothered (though 20kg lighter would be nice). He's always going to be chunky, he's a light draught breed & built like one, and the amount of schooling he does seems to bulk him up more - slap his shoulders or bum now & your hand stings!

YO has just about given up telling me he should have less hay & it should be in nets (he won't eat much from nets & cribs instead) though she has commented that it's going to cost me a lot if hay prices go high this winter! Sadly I think she cold be right on that one :p
 
Hey sod the yard owner,
My ID who is 17.2 ( my image pic)
gets through about 1/2 to 1.3 of a bail of hay a day and in the winter he will be on near enough 1 bale a day. your horse needs to keep busy and if ** paying for the hay what is the friggin problem ? my ID doesnt eat any thing else other then hay and grass, he is kept natural with no bulk feeds or cereals and he keeps his condition far better in my opinion.
If you do want to cut the shear amount you could swap hay for haylege, but for me personally i rather have a larger volume of hay so they dont feel hungry though out the night .... chin up and stick to the natural way ... ps ** ID looks sooo lush n cuddly :) super little horse
 
Courage_UK he is cuddly, he'll take any hugs, cuddles & kisses he can get! It's funny that adults are often wary of him - his size & sometimes sharp behaviour really put them off - yet kids love him & he is incredibly gentle with them. He can be "interesting" under saddle but this is improving with age &, I think, ad-lib hay though he's can still be sharp, stressy & need thoughtful riding & handling.

I like the "little" - people always look at me as if I'm mad when I call him my pony :D
 
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