Unfair Judging

diplomaticandtactful

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Apr 25, 2003
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I have just seen Buddy's scores from the Cumberland Show, and am shocked beyond belief at the judging.

He was placed 4th. The winner, who was the only member of the VHS, received 90 out of 100. She received 45 on performance and manners. Buddy received 20 for performance and manners! Er why? He did exactly what she did, when asked to trot off from the group he trotted at a slow controlled trot all the way around the arena and stopped when the judge was watching another horse. At the judging, he walked over, stood calmly and when asked to trot a figure of 8, he trotted off from the judge and did not break strides. He did exactly the same as the winner so how come a 25 point difference? He was given the same score as the mad Arab who did not trot the figure of 8 and did not show well.

The horse who was second, who planted and refused to leave the judge and did not trot a figure of 8 without stopping receive 25.

Buddy received the lowest score of all the veterans there for performance and manners. If you have seen the pictures of him in the ring, it is clear he was well mannered and behaved impeccably.

He received 20 out of 50 for condition for age, suppleness and turnout, again the lowest score. How much of that is turnout who knows but yes he is not looking his best so i would not query that one. And have the vet coming out to see him again this week.

But to say he was the horse that performed the worst and had the worst manners of all the horses there, not just in his class, is beyond belief and a total insult.
 
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Skib

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One reason I mistrust competitions and judging and those who set store by rosettes, is that with the exception of jumping, scores given by judges are mightily subjective.
I imagine that, if you have a video of the class, or one was taken by a professional, there is some way of querying a result which does not truthfully present the behaviour shown in the video?
 
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diplomaticandtactful

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One reason I mistrust competitions and judging and those who set store by rosettes, is that with the exception of jumping, scores given by judges are mightily subjective.
I imagine that, if you have a video of the class, or one was taken by a professional, there is some way of querying a result which does not truthfully present the behaviour shown in the video?
We go only to give him a day out and something to have fun with, so our turnout is never brilliant etc. But i am furious about the manners and performance scores, he behaved impeccably. I took him to one show where there was a mare with a foal in his class and he was a total eejit and almost took him out of the ring as he was so strong and so wired. But there is no way that he rated 20 out of 50 on performance and manners, he did everything he was asked to do first time. I don't care if the judge doesn't like him - i am used to that as we are usually the only heavy there and tbs and natives do well - but to rate him the lowest horse of ALL the veterans there, the same as the mad arab who was completely bonkers and quite dangerous, is an insult.
 
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diplomaticandtactful

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Judges are required to ask a brief history of each veteran and take this into account when marking - they didn't do that only asked what age he was. If a VHS class judge doesn't even follow their rules it's a bit silly
 

Huggy

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Agree with skib - the only competition that bias cannot affect, is jumping. Even if you can't appeal or query, the judge should at least have given reasons. From your account, and the pictures, he looked and behaved impeccably.
 

diplomaticandtactful

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Agree with skib - the only competition that bias cannot affect, is jumping. Even if you can't appeal or query, the judge should at least have given reasons. From your account, and the pictures, he looked and behaved impeccably.
he looks poorer than the pictures you can see his ribs, i don't query his looks and condition marks but i do really really query his performance and manners marks, perhaps he should have juggled or played the violin?
 
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carthorse

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I don't know the first thing about veteran showing so I apologise in advance if this is a numpty question. Does the performance and manners also cover how well and freely they move? I just wonder if, although he was impeccably behaved he maybe didn't look to be moving as well as some of the others and that was the reason for his lower mark.

I agree with the others though, showing is very subjective, two judges marking the same class can come up with completely different results.
 

diplomaticandtactful

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I don't know the first thing about veteran showing so I apologise in advance if this is a numpty question. Does the performance and manners also cover how well and freely they move? I just wonder if, although he was impeccably behaved he maybe didn't look to be moving as well as some of the others and that was the reason for his lower mark.

I agree with the others though, showing is very subjective, two judges marking the same class can come up with completely different results.
I think that is covered in condition for age suppleness and turnout, and he was moving freely was trotting out nicely, not being run up like a welshie just trotting around at the same pace as the one who came second.
 
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diplomaticandtactful

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Judging - meh!

One show the girls did, I filmed the 1st prize winner beating the crap out of her pony before the placings. She needed her ticket to Hoys. It was all pre-arranged. The judge had spent the night (instead of B&B) with the owner.
thank god Bud and I don't take it that seriously
 
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MrC

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Listen don’t worry about it it’s only an opinion on your horse. At least your judge didn’t attack you personally like I got at my last show. I nearly left and didn’t do my second class I was so upset.

Performance would have also been about his movement. I did Veteran with Kia and what we lacked in type conformation and traditional beauty I had to make up with manners, turnout and showing him off. He might have been moving freely to you but to the judge it could have looked not so. I have a list of judges I won’t run under for the reason I don’t like their judging style
 
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