Very Strong - Should I Change Bit?

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Hetfinch

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Nov 26, 2001
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My chubby cob, Pally, has been successfully losing weight over the last two months since I took him on loan. However, with his lesser frame and built-up muscles comes more energy... and he is extremely strong. This is not normally a problem as I have quite a few techniques stored up my sleeve for dealing with this.

However, he is beginning to take-off with me in canter and I can't, however hard I try, get him to stop. If I try turning him in circles he speeds up and I fear that he will fall over! I try half-halts, sitting right back in the saddle and all the usual things, but he is simply too strong. Luckily I have quite a secure seat, but there will come a time when he takes off and I will be launched into the air!

Could I benefit by changing his bit? I am still a relative newcomer to all things equine, so I'm not sure this is the answer. Any advice? At the moment he is in a snaffle.

Thanks

Heather :(
 
Dutch gag...

My horse is a cobby type and very strong. too.

I try as you say, do the 'usual' things like half halts. But everythink i try just does not work!!

She is in a fulmer link snaffle, and most of the time she is 'ok'. But when we are going to do 'fast' work like jumping and hunting i put her in a dutch gag.

A dutch gag is very good as you can have them on the first ring which would be like a snaffle and then the last ring which is very strong. I think these bits are very good and you should give them a try. Try and borrow one to try it out, but I highly recommend it.

Good luck, and tell us what you decide.
 
My moms horse is a chubby cob, he was ridden in a french link dutch gag like hayley suggested,but he was too strong for it. At the moment we ride him in a dr bristol, I also used this bit on my old pony who was a bolter and it helped me slow him down.
If the dutch gag doesn't work try a dr bristol, but if your horse doesn't like tounge pressure try a pelham or something similar.
My mom and I have started doing more controlled canter work up a short stretch of grass which also may help with your control.
Good luk and I hope you get it sorted, I know that it can sometimes knock your confidence but keep trying.
Tasha
 
oo let me know your tricks. My horse doesnt tank off or bolt..never has *knock on wood* sinc ei have had her. But when we are out riding with other horses she wont stop until the other hroses have stopped.
 
I am not too sure about the Dutch gag.....there have been many posts about this in the past, most negative.
I am going to sick my neck out and say if you do change the bit, maybe try a french link snaffle.
However I personally think that changing a bit is a quick fix....but if you feel it is getting dangerous.....
 
Does the bit you are using has loose rings? If it doesn't it may pay to use one. Also if you do decide on the Dutch gag make sure you ride with two reins... that was you only using the gag action when you need it.
I know you probably know all this but......:rolleyes:
 
Am about to contradict everything else everyone has said! And I have posted about this in other forums, but will post here as well!:)

Have ridden several horses including my own very strong Cleveland Bay in a dutch gag I have found them next to useless, particularly for strong horses. The action of the dutch gag is on the poll and most of the strength - especially from cobby types comes from the shoulder or the haunches. Each time a horse I know has been put into a dutch gag the horse has worked quite nicely for about a month or so and then started to stiffen their neck up through his/her back regardless of the exercises and schooling you do to counteract it. Once the horse started to stiffen they then had a lot of hardened muscle to work against you, thereby increasing their strength.

The best way of controlling the strength is to school and get the horse very responsive to your aids. Unfortunately most of us hate to admit this as this takes the most time and energy! :)

I suggest you talk it over with a qualified instructor before you go ahead and buy a new bit as they will be able to tell you what they see happening in your lessons. Sometimes, horses can get very strong in response to a bit being too harsh for their mouth and it may mean actually changing to a softer more gentler bit.

However, whilst I am a bit reluctant to put extra metal work into a horse mouth, I can appreciate we only have limited strength in comparison to a fit and raring to go horse! I have used a rubber Pelham in the past to hack out in as my horse was too strong. He had had a very long break after I had been ill and once he started to get fit again, but didn't have the suppleness to work the muscles bulk he was putting on, he became pretty uncontrollable when out hacking and I needed brakes in case he took off. But I did always school in a loose ring snaffle and I think because of this he was always responsive to one or the other of the bits as he didn't get over-familiar with either - so you may find a combination of bits suits you best.
 
I am not at al sure about Dutch Gags. I cannot see how the theory of their function is matched by their structure. However I also have a strong necked Highland who can be unstoppable in company if in a snaffle. Like Kerry - see other post- he has expensive tastes and schools in a KK snaffle! However he also schools and hacks out in a rubber pelham with two reins. However when I am out riding fast in company a rubber kimblewick does the job. He likes it, We have brakes - sometimes - and I do not have cope with slipping two sets of reins when the ground vanishes from underneath us!
 
some useful things to think about...

Thanks for all your advice. In answer to one or two points - I am very reluctant to use a more 'severe' bit without trying out other ideas first and am currently concentrating on his schooling. I have a feeling that this could cure the problem in time ( he hadn't been regularly ridden for a long time before I took him on loan).

However, I've obviously opened up quite a debate on the bitting issue - and I'm learning a lot and will let you know if I decided to go down the changing bits route.

Thanks!

Heather
 
Dutch gag - erghhhh. Used by lots of people who think they are a fashionable way of controlling there horse without using it properly. all bits have there place IF USED PROPERLY!!! You should NEVER use a dutch gag with one set of reins.

Have you tried bridging your reins??? Libby tanks off in canter (she is ridden in a kimblewick) Well tanking off is quite a strong word to use, she just gradually gets faster and faster if I don't concentrate on driving her with my seat. I find bridging my reins REALLY helps as all she is doing is pulling against herself. I have had her a year (this weekend :) ) and we are only now slowly becoming nice to hack and controlable on the grass!! Little madam. she has never been dangerous just very uncomfortable and VERY strong. Lots and lots and lots of schooling - good luck ;)

Jsut so you know Libby hadn't been ridden in a LONg time as well and it was all about to much enthusiasm!!! :rolleyes:
 
The horse I ride is VERY strong at times, but only coz she's over enthusiastic and thinks people enjoy being carted around at 150mph. She goes in a pelham and occasionally gets her head right up but I don't ride her with a martingale. I think it's a matter of using clever tactics rather than fighting strength with strength. We have deffinately come a long way since I began to ride her last winter when she was extremely fresh and frisky(we galloped on a road once, not my choice beleive me!). I just try to stay calm and make sure she only moves up or down a gear when I've asked her to. I was sooo pleased with her yesterday as we had a controlled gallop for the first time and the breaks actually worked! Just be patient and have some lessons if you can. We've built up a sort of bond now where she knows if I'm unsure about going so fast and where I know when she's not keen but it's taken quite a while.
 
I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to have an accident or fright, but I have always been taught that if you put a strong bit on a horse, then the horse gets stronger, so you put a stronger bit in, and so it goes on. How about going softer (in controlled paddock conditions to start, with a more experienced person). I have a welsh x appaloosa who is a real strong, cobby type with tremendous neck and jaw. I have to have a 5.5 inch bit to fit her, and she's only 14hh. She is strong and pulls. I ride her in a sweet iron french link snaffle, and as long as I don't let her get away from me to begin with, she is perfectly OK, I don't use a martingale, but over the last couple of years, I have schooled her to lower her head carriage a bit. The sweet iron encourages a dry mouthed horse to salivate, thus making it a bit more sensitive. I personally hate to see gag type bits and the more severe snaffles used, as you have to be very, very good with your hands. Just try putting a piece of metal in your own mouth and giving it a bit of a pull, it hurts. But I am aware that in certain conditions, they have their place.
 
Hi there,
I have a suggestion which may help you, the best alternative before changing to a more severe bit. Do you have a noseband with an attachment for a flash? If you do, use the flash before changing the bit. This gives you more control, as when the horse is 'tanking off' he cannot open his move to evade the bit, which in turn, gives you more control without making the bit more severe! Could be worth a try :D
 
it's already been said and i have to agree, changing the bit is only masking the problem. it seems to me your horse really needs more training.
 
I school in a Sprenger KK (yes, expensive tastes here too) and hack out in a French Link Eggbut with a running martingale - both with a crank noseband. This combination seems to be working quite well. The only time I tried a gag Henry went absolutely loopy!
 
i use a kk sprenger bit too.

My horse was got a bit strong too and my instrcutor suggested using a pelham although it didnt seem to work with my horse and it seemed to make her more resistant to the bit so nwo i have just been trainig her in her usual bit ad things are gettign better. Another horse that i trained for a girl before she bought it had no brakes at all so i rode it for a couple of days with a pleham and he responded alot finer with the pelham and then after 2 days i rode him a normal sprenger kk and he was perfect. Once in a while when his brakes fail the girls rides him in a pelham for half an hour adn then the next time in its normal bit and he is fine.
 
Getting there.... I think!

Well, Pally and I are doing lots of schooling now - a bit of a novelty for him and a good learning experience for me! He is great going clockwise, but very stiff and clumsy going anti-clockwise (excuse my dreadful non-equine language here!).

He has become much more responsive to my aids (except when we're galloping up hills with his new found equi-friend, Ellie!)

One problem I have identified with him is his transition from canter to trot.. in fact, it is off subject here, so I will start a new thread.

Thanks for all your advice re: bits. I have learnt a lot and decided to take the advice to keep him in a snaffle for now and concentrate more and more on his schooling.

Heather :)
 
bit for control

I just posted another thread re: Kimpberwick bit, and I should have read this thread first! My RD has a bad habit of riding up on the bum of the horse in front of him while on the hack. I try to do half halts to create some space, but he just ignored me (urgg). It was suggested to me that I get a Kimberwick bit, which I did. I'm off to do a hack w/ some friends... I'll let you know if it works!
 
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