We need some help please - long post!

Lulah

Member
Feb 14, 2008
72
0
6
The marshlands of Essex
We are two novice riders who have had our loan pony for 3 months now. He is a Fell gelding 12 years old. We were aware when we got him that he can be very strong and bolshy. he is ridden in a pelham and we were advised never to hack him out in anything else. We also know that he can be unpredictable with large vehicles. J spends much more time with him than I do (I see him most weekends, she does the day to day in the week). We have been working on his manners - he now backs up, waits for his food and has nearly stopped dragging us round the field. We haven't done much riding due to the weather but we have taken him out with other horses on the road with no problems and on his own with some napping problems - planting up and refusing to go forward, circling and backing up which we have generally managed to overcome. We have only walked and a little bit of trot, neither of us is brave enough to try canter yet.

3 days ago he bolted with J and she came off in the end. She said she had absolutely no brakes even in the pelham. They were walking on the road, there were old people and kids around, and suddenly like a switch being turned on he just went and he was totally oblivious to everything around him. J managed to turn him but he simply picked up speed again and galloped in the other direction, this time along the verge of the road. She turned him back onto the grass and just as she thought he was slowing he did a massive jump to the side and she came off. She managed to hang onto the reins but he continued to buck, rear and canter around her. It was a very very frightening experience for J and dangerous and she has now totally lost confidence in him and is not sure she will ever be able to get back on him. there was no apparent reason for it except possibly the presence of J's daughter and her friend on their ponies a short distance away cantering through puddles on the grass.

We are both the wrong side of 45, we cannot risk having a pony that isn't safe to hack out. We don't have a school and hacking is our only option (and it's what we both want to do anyway). We are devastated by this turn of events and really not sure what to do. I rode him the next day and took him the same route with a friend on foot, as we approached the same place he went very tense and light in the hand with his head right up and I felt he was going to go. Although I tried hard to remain relaxed I was scared so before he could do anything I turned him around and started walking back towards home.

His owner is a friend of ours and very experienced - although he is known to be strong and can be spooky he has never done anything like this before. She will help us, but I wondered if anyone had any immediate advice or experiences that might help us deal with this situation?

Oh, he is barefoot and unclipped, lives out most of the time and has a small handful of Happy hoof with supplements twice a day. His teeth have been checked and he has seen the vet recently to check his sarcoid.

Do we persevere or admit that we should have seen the warning signs (pelham, known to be strong, has been known to rear, not good with large vehicles etc) that meant he is not suitable for novices like us?
 
Oh dear - this is a difficult one, and not any easier because it's so common: n novice riders, slightly nervous; a horse that doesn't quite trust them; and a situation that just sends him over the top - in your case I'd guess it's a combination of the people in the road and the other ponies cantering and jumping that set him off ...

I think you probably have two choices now. Either you decide to work through this and build your relationship and your authority - that would mean doing lots of groundwork, walking out in hand, and having some lessons on him (would his owner help with this?) - or you just say 'no' and look for a calmer, easier horse `(although there you do risk it happening again). Or - a third way - you spend some time riding at a riding school, having lessons and gaining experience before you look for another horse.

Well that's three choices, isn't it - sorry! I don't think any of them are right or wrong - it's up to you.
 
I would possibly have looked for a 'quieter' horse being a novice, but I can understand why you may want to persevere.

I always think groundwork is a good place to start for a horse and building up to ridden work.

As LindaAd has said some lessons might be a good idea as it will build up your own confidence for riding and help develop your seat, but in a true bolt how much that helps I am not sure.

Horses can pick up on people who have a lack of confidence in them and it in turn makes the horse lack trust in the rider.

Is your friend willing to take their boy back and do some more schooling work with him?

As said previously, the choice is entirely up to you and no one can make the decision for you. Go with your gut instinct.

let us know how you go :)

Jen
x
 
<snip>

As LindaAd has said some lessons might be a good idea as it will build up your own confidence for riding and help develop your seat, but in a true bolt how much that helps I am not sure.

<snip>

Jen
x


Just to make it clear - I wasn't so much thinking that a stronger seat would help you stick on if he bolted, more that you'd be a stronger rider and better able to avoid the bolt in the first place!
 
Without a moments doubt I would send him back straight away. You have been told that he is strong, bargy and needs a pelham to be hacked out. To me, this says you need to be a very firm, confident rider to be able to ride him effectively. He is not suitable for a novice.

I'm not saying that his behaviour cannot be improved, but if you are not 100% confident in dealing with him, he will soon take advantage and his behaviour will get worse - hence why he bolted. This is dangerous, not only for you but also for other road users. Unless you have total control over him, I think that you would be very unwise to hack him out again. There are many safe, well mannered horses out there who would be perfect for your needs, I don't think that this is the horse for you.
 
Hello again!

G is fine as long as you are confident. I know a novice loaned him in the past successfully but he taught her a lot too. However she was very confident. Have you tried being more assertive/a little bit bossy with him? My advice would be don't let him take a inch, the minute he thinks about being naughty then nip it in the bud. I think at the moment he is walking all over you simply because he can (I don't meant that nastily).
Another factor might have been the other ponies cantering through the puddles, he probably wanted to join in and had a hissy fit because you didn't. (btw I agree you shouldn't let him do what he wants but might be something you need to work on)

Groundwork would be a good place to start and will help your confidence too.

I don't think you would be wrong to send him back either though if you were looking for something more steady.

I think what you both need to think is do you want something you need to work on (which yours will need regular correcting until he learns he can't be bossy/do what he wants) or do you want something you can both hack round the roads on quietly without fuss.

On a side note, it might also be worth having bloods taken just to make sure nothing is amiss with his body chemistry. I say that simply because it could be a biochemical reason.
 
Is there a way the owner or another confident rider can hack him out once a week for you? I have known this to help as the horse gets a reminder that he cant get away with pushing his riders around plus it will help his confidence and hopefully yours too.

Maybe set yourselves a deadline with this horse. Be realistic so maybe give yourselves something like 2 months and if things haven't improved to the point at which you are all happy then maybe it's time to call it a day. I know horses cant work to a deadline and often these things take time but it helps to have a target in mind rather than just worrying about the problem every day. Discuss with his owner what you are feeling and see what they suggest.
 
Personally I think I would send him back. Strong, spooky, bolshy, Pelham, now bolting? You are worried, your friend is downright scared... that's not fun for anyone and potentially dangerous. What if he gets loose on the road and ends up in traffic...?

I am sure that if you are prepared to perservere and work with him (and I would admire you for doing that) he would improve but is that what you want from your loan? It sounds like what you and your friend are looking for is a nice, safe hack, which he is not. As you have him on loan you have the luxury of being able to send him back as unsuitable.

Best of luck!
 
I seen alarm bells as soon as I read, "must always be ridden in the Pelham" It sounds like the pelham is being used for brakes / control which is wrong. No bit should ever be used like this and the fact that he bolted out of control proves no bit will stop a horse if it wants to go.

Also if a person thinks a horse needs a pelham to be ridden then no way is the horse suitable for novices.

Already both of you are now fearful of this horse and this is not a pleasurable feeling. How can you now ever ride out without thinking "What if"....

To be truthful I'd say send the horse back and look for another loan pony / horse that you can safely ride out on and enjoy the entire ride.
 
I agree with Sofi P. Though I would only give it a month. Unless you can regain some confidence things may just get worse and it would be unfair on you both and the horse for that to happen. If at all possible you should get a confident rider on him asap and preferrably the owner to get him past this point in the road.

Having said that, 'regaining some confidence' is easier said than done. I had a similar thing myself this weekend (though I do know why it happened). I'm finding that my confidence in all aspects of horse care seems to have disappeared. I know I need to get a grip but....

Anyway, give my love to J. She must be feeling really low.
 
Without a moments doubt I would send him back straight away. You have been told that he is strong, bargy and needs a pelham to be hacked out. To me, this says you need to be a very firm, confident rider to be able to ride him effectively. He is not suitable for a novice.


Absolutely agree with this advice.

A horse that needs a Pelham, and to be told never to hack him without one is totally unsuitable for a novice rider. Send him back and find something that is quieter and more confidence giving, before something happens to either yourself or your friend and you end up either badly injured or with confidence so badly knocked that you give up riding completely.

:(
 
Without a moments doubt I would send him back straight away. You have been told that he is strong, bargy and needs a pelham to be hacked out. To me, this says you need to be a very firm, confident rider to be able to ride him effectively. He is not suitable for a novice.

I'm not saying that his behaviour cannot be improved, but if you are not 100% confident in dealing with him, he will soon take advantage and his behaviour will get worse - hence why he bolted. This is dangerous, not only for you but also for other road users. Unless you have total control over him, I think that you would be very unwise to hack him out again. There are many safe, well mannered horses out there who would be perfect for your needs, I don't think that this is the horse for you.

I agree 110%, if I were you; he'd be gone tommorow.
 
I really dont think this horse is at all suitable for novices.:eek: I would send him back and look for another safer and more suitable horse to have some fun on - this one will ruin your confidence and turn your hobby into something you dread IMO:(
 
i agree with every onre else. i expect you are right and he bolted because of the pony cantering through the puddles, but, that is not what you want to happen anywhen for any reason. as novice riders you should have a horse that is safe and will teach you in a way that doesnt make you lose your confidence. if you continue with this horse it could turn into a spiral of you two losing all confidence, and possibly being hurt, and the horse also becoming worse than he already is and also becoming hurt. as he is on loan, i would send him back to his owner.
 
i think it's great that you've worked to improve him on the ground. You will never, ever win in a pulling match with a horse, pelham or not and i really don't feel that bitting up would be the way to solve this. If you were prepared to school him and work with a good instructor you may certainly improve him undersaddle. But, if he's going to destroy your confidence then i think the only option is to send him back and look for something else or as was suggested gain more experience at an RS. You don't want to have the "what if's" floating around in the back of your mind all the time with your loan pony.

My immediate concern is it sounds like you want a safe hack. No horse with a fear of large vehicles (and rears?!) is suitable for a safe novice hack.
 
I would send him back!
It sounds like you are looking for a sensible ride that you can enjoy and nothing about the experience sounds very enjoyable. Someone could get hurt and its just not worth it. Broken bones or worse. If you had bought the horse it would be time to start problem solving but you have a get out as it is only a loan and I think you should take advantage of it. You can then find a horse that you can both enjoy.
 
Thank you all very much

Thank you all very much for your replies, I really do appreciate it. I am actually quite surprised at the number of people saying he should go back but that gives me reassurance that it is not wrong to consider that option. I think we both know that in our heart of hearts that it may have to happen. Of course the problem is that we love the little fella now, in spite of what has happened and are going to be absolutely devastated at admitting failure and returning him to his owner. Plus feeling guilty at moving him around different homes.

It was my dream come true getting this pony (I waited 44 years for this) but I do agree that the pelham alone was a warning sign. His owner is a lovely caring person who will have him back no problem, but he is her number 3 pony (she sort of rescued him) so he won't be doing much...

If we decide to persevere can anyone recommend an instructor who would come to us in Brightlingsea, Essex? (I had regular lessons at a riding school up until 6 months ago but J has never had lessons). That might just restore our confidence.

Thanks again everyone and I will let you know what we decide to do.
 
I haven't read the other replies to be honest so apologise if I am repeating anybody.

Whilst I 'admire' you thoughts of keeping this Horse and working with him, I also wonder WHY you would want to do that in all honesty. You admit
yourself that both you and your friend are relative novices and surely you
should, for a first horse, be having something you can have loads of fun on,
relatively safe in the knowledge that the Horse is safe, improving your
knowledge with this 'safe' Horse and building your confidence. This Horse
is NOT your problem, you haven't bought it, you are LOANING it and CAN send it back !! In my mind if you are not 100% happy with any Horse
for whatever reason WHAT is the point of carrying on when he/she could be somebody elses 'dream Horse'. IF you haven't got the knowledge or
confidence things usually go downhill rather than uphill.

TBH I don't know why people say about PELHAMS, personally think they are a wonderful and NOT an 'at all' harsh bit in the 'right hands' far
from it in fact. I would not think twice about using a Pelham if I had a very forward going Horse rather than 'keep nagging' at him/her with
a snaffle bit.

Now I say that because that is what I TRULY believe, including the bit about Pelhams.........HOWEVER, I bought a 'first Horse' that was a 'total Nightmare' as well:p As an 'Athiest' this Horse eventually had me 'crossing' myself, before coming out of the field
JUST IN CASE:p If I wasn't Riding, I was Lunging, if I wasn't lunging I was
Riding, there were days when I lunged and then I rode, days when I did both, rode and then lunged AGAIN:D OMG all I did was get her 'superfit'. I had
lessons, it was a STEEP learning curve for both of us tbh. I was probably
a bit more knowledgable and had had Horses before but nothing like this
TB:rolleyes: I stuck with it for 3 years, things improved but were never
100% as she had no respect for the traffic. Sold her and bought a very
forward going but relatively SANE ARAB:D

TWO thoughts........

1. Send him back and get something reliable that you can ENJOY, which at
the end of the day is what its all about

2. Stick with it, get help, this Horse will improve both your KNOWLEDGE AND
RIDING no end......but its only for the BRAVE or STUPID, lol. Years on
I think I fell in the latter category:p

Wish you well whichever way you decide;):)
 
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If you haven't bought him, then look for something else to loan / share. I say that because you may have oodles of groundwork and lessons to put in before he's anything like the happy hacker you say you want. (If hacking is all you want to do). Its not like you are tied in with having purchased or anything.
If you don't have access to a school then things won't be easy - I say that from personal experience with Storm - when we moved her home we had no school until late last year - and it wasn't easy getting her back to rights. She picked up on my hacking nerves and it became a vicious circle.
Good luck btw with whatever you choose to do - I wouldn't blame you for picking either option.
 
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