Which problem to tackle first?

L

lauren123

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Feb 3, 2007
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East Yorkshire
Well... I actually feel like ... like there are too many issues/ problems at the moment and I cant seem to manage them or aren't sure which problem to tackle first... Or it might be I have done a 13 hour shift at work and am knackered!!

As you may have guessed I am talking about sox! Due to swelling on all four of his legs one night a few weeks ago and the normal; exercise, cold hosing and stable bandages making a difference to 3 out of his 4 legs, the 4 still wasn't going down in size. I reluctantly the next working day got the vet out. Lymphangitis is what sox has, could have been brought on by, mud fever that I have been battling with, which has then become infected or photosensitivity ( on a mixture of the two) photosensitivity he has never appeared to have before, apparently buttercups can cause photosensitivity, which I didn't know. There are loads of buttercups in his field. I was unable to cold hose and didn't really want to turn him out in bandages ( accident prone enough!) and sadly due to work I was unable to work him as much as I would have liked during the first week. At the moment, he is been turned out in socks in the day so the sun wont get on soxs socks and bandages on a night with either vet wrap or tape to keep it in place.
The mud fever... I get the scabs off, sudocreme the area and the buggers then come back!
Oh and according to google sox may have equine cannon keratosis... I noticed it .. actually when sox had his socks on for the first time and I thought it was just mud but then the hair on his legs you could pick off almost. He may have a bit of thrush ( hibiscrubbing and iodine) I pick his feet out twice a day every day anyway.
Oh and sox shares his field with 3 other geldings. I worm counted sox like I do every 3 months or so, last worm count was april /may. Came back with no eggs. However there appears to be really small worms, like a mm to 1cm worms, there small but not fat, in a few of the horses poo. So he may or may not have worms. Or it could just be flies laying there eggs as when owners have check the horses dropping when they have been in the stables for a short time the horses are far as I am aware don't have the worms in them .

This has turned out to be a huge thread! So.....
Currently the photosensitivity I am trying my best to manage it, covering soxs socks when he is turned out and his face aswell, though that's mainly for sun burn.
The Lymphangitis ( or filled legs!) managing that will stable bandages for now. However made need a course of steroids if not improvement soon.
The mud fever ... that just wont bugger off!
The worms... we don't seem to be too sure if they are horse worms or not. 2 of the 4 horses haven't been wormed this year... I believe they were wormed for tapeworm last year however cant be sure.

I just ... feel like I have let sox down a little. He has never had mud fever in the summer, never really the lymphangitis, he has had it when on box rest previously but nothing like this. He has sadly always been prone to thrush and I try to spot the signs early. Again with the worms, or whatever they be, he has never appeared to have a problem with these before. Never had so many problems with his skin....

Starting to bloody ramble now. :(
Which one would you tackle first?
I guess I just needed to it out...
 
A worm count won't show encysted worms (or so I'm told) so I'd worm first just in case. The rest of it just sounds like an ongoing battle.

Cold you swap to bringing him in during the day and turning him out at night? That might help with the photosensitivity.

You're certainly not failing him - far from it.
 
Sound like he may have lymphocystic vasculitis instead of lymphangitis to me.

Are his legs raw and sore and no matter how you treat them the scabs won't clear up?

If so he needs the legs clipped out and a steroid cream applied daily with the legs being scrubbed. Kia had a bad bout of lymphocystic vasculitis brought on by a reaction to something in the grass and he was in agony with it.

I had to keep him in for weeks then he was turned it with turnout socks on until the hair grew back.
 
I only have a sec but be aware that citronella and other essential oils can increase photosensitivity so check your fly spray isnt adding to the issue. The vet thought jess summer mf may actually be a photosensitive reaction so you may not be dealing with mf caused by bacteria.
I'd give some echinacia to boost the immune system given there are so many things going on, it cant hurt and will help his body battle off any bacteria etc.
 
So your problems, in no particular order, are
- lymphangitis
- infected mudfever
- possible photosensitivity
- possible worm problem in horses you are sharing the field with

I'm not counting the keratosis as that's a possible & google will persuade you you died a month ago & haven't noticed yet!

So which is the most serious problem, or do you think one is causing the others? Because that's the one you need to focus on.

Without seeing him I'd be most inclined to focus on the lymphangitis, the constant swelling of hs legs will compromise the skin & make it easier for the mudfever to get & keep a hold. Constant bandaging & booting is giving the mudfever an ideal breeding enviroment so have a chat with your vet about that, maybe a course of antibiotics would help. Can you turn out 24/7? The constant movement may help keep the swelling down & he could go unbooted at night when the sunlight isn't a problem, maybe with a barrier ream to protect against the buttercups. Or if he can't do 24/7 out could he be in during the day & out at night? Also could you speak about moving to a field with fewer buttercups or as the YO to get the field topped?

The worming of the other horses is outside your control. All you can do is either worm socks routinely or do more regular fecs so you notice sooner if he's picking up a burden.

Having spent years dealing with a horse with multiple problems that have contradicting management needs I can honestly say that you need to keep a calm head & prioritise or it will all come crashing down. Don't ignore any problem, but sometimes you have to deal with the most urgent first because you can't do everything at once. On the bright side none of these problems are life threatening at this stage so you've got some leeway for sorting things out. Enlist the help of a practical vet, one who can't see the overall picture isn't going to help you with this type of situation, & work out a plan for how you can best treat & manage him. It will probably mean extra work for a while, but long term it's worth it.
 
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You were also talking about moving a while ago. Some yards just don't work for horse or owner and the multiple problems you seem to constantly have may be yard related. Especially if other owners have wormy horses.

I'd be looking at a move if you cannot manage your horse the way he needs to be managed
 
You most definitely haven't let Sox down!
I would be tempted to worm him as already suggested as the other horses and their possible worm burdens are out of your control.
Interesting he's not had mf in summer before. Hmm. Wonder if it's the photosensitivity making it look like mf?
Is it worth having a long chat with your vet? Or if it's easier (lots to remember) emailing him ? (I sometimes find that easier than talking over the phone). And carthorse is right - stay away from google!lol last night I convinced myself madam had navicular, Lammi, arthritis, abscesses, snapped both tendons......you get the idea?!
 
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Thanks for all your advice, as always!
To answer all your questions.

chev said:
A worm count won't show encysted worms (or so I'm told) so I'd worm first just in case. The rest of it just sounds like an ongoing battle.

Cold you swap to bringing him in during the day and turning him out at night? That might help with the photosensitivity.

You're certainly not failing him - far from it.
Click to expand...
In terms of the worms, I actually did have a dig almost in his dung today and couldn't see any worms. I did debate to 'switch' to the YO worming which is pretty much worm twice a year but thought I would stick to what I had done on the previous yard and continue to worm count and worm when needs be. I did think about turning him out on a night and I might consider that, however he would be the only horse on the yard in in the day. Currently he is out 24/7 apart from coming in twice a day for some hard feed and that's when I check him over, do his feet etc.

MrC said:
Sound like he may have lymphocystic vasculitis instead of lymphangitis to me.

Are his legs raw and sore and no matter how you treat them the scabs won't clear up?

If so he needs the legs clipped out and a steroid cream applied daily with the legs being scrubbed. Kia had a bad bout of lymphocystic vasculitis brought on by a reaction to something in the grass and he was in agony with it.
.
Click to expand...
Yeah the word the vet used was bloody long! lymphocystic vasculitis, sounds like that what the vet said. Yeah its strange, its like mud fever type thing but yet its like he has almost like thin scabs on his legs that are really sore for him. He woudnt even let me hibiscrub them this morning.

Jessey said:
. The vet thought jess summer mf may actually be a photosensitive reaction so you may not be dealing with mf caused by bacteria.
I'd give some echinacia to boost the immune system given there are so many things going on, it cant hurt and will help his body battle off any bacteria etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah I am thinking of what supplement to give him to boost his immune system... I will check my fly spray/ I aren't sure if my vet thought it was the mud fever getting infected that has cause the filled like or the photosensitive that has cause it.

carthorse said:
So your problems, in no particular order, are
- lymphangitis
- infected mudfever
- possible photosensitivity
- possible worm problem in horses you are sharing the field with

I'm not counting the keratosis as that's a possible & google will persuade you you died a month ago & haven't noticed yet!

So which is the most serious problem, or do you think one is causing the others? Because that's the one you need to focus on.

Without seeing him I'd be most inclined to focus on the lymphangitis, the constant swelling of hs legs will compromise the skin & make it easier for the mudfever to get & keep a hold. Constant bandaging & booting is giving the mudfever an ideal breeding enviroment so have a chat with your vet about that, maybe a course of antibiotics would help. Can you turn out 24/7? The constant movement may help keep the swelling down & he could go unbooted at night when the sunlight isn't a problem, maybe with a barrier ream to protect against the buttercups. Or if he can't do 24/7 out could he be in during the day & out at night? Also could you speak about moving to a field with fewer buttercups or as the YO to get the field topped?

The worming of the other horses is outside your control. All you can do is either worm socks routinely or do more regular fecs so you notice sooner if he's picking up a burden.
.
Click to expand...
I aren't sure... I would say the mud fever thing isn't help the filled legs but the bandges and socks aren't helping the mud fever but I need the socks to turn protect him from the sun, as strange as it sounds the sun block ( the spray) appeared to almos melt in the sun! you could see where it had run down his legs.
I have been focusing on the filled legs really. My vet ( matt) advised bandages for sox when turned out to reduce the swelling and also to protect his legs from the sun. When matt came to see sox about his legs sox was on a course of antibiotics and bute for 5 days and I was advised to hibiscrub the mud fever which I have been doing. Currently sox is out 24/7. The field they are in have the least amount of buttercups, but I will speak to the YO.

MrC said:
You were also talking about moving a while ago. Some yards just don't work for horse or owner and the multiple problems you seem to constantly have may be yard related. Especially if other owners have wormy horses.
Click to expand...

I am thinking that the problems sox have been having is partly yard related. I was saying to a friend at the previous yard about the gravel tracks , she was saying that the gravel is probably even worse for him ( compared to concrete) due to him having poor feet, even matt has mentioned it. The degree of mud isn't helping in the winter ( its the type were is you stay in that spot for 10 seconds you then get stuck!) I aren't really allowed to cold hose.

I am going to email matt tomorrow actually trews :)
Oh and sox has been booted right on the point of his hip, nice big swelling there now :(
 
it doesn't look like it trews! :( the small dales x that sox normally 'plays' with has a lovely big rip in his rug on his rump.
sox does play rough but this dales doesn't really do playing let alone rough playing and telling sox to leave him alone in short
 
You can get uv fly boots now, they might be good for the photosensitivity whilst still letting the air to the mf.
 
:( Not sure if sox is sore or lame, as I said earlier he has been booted right on his hip, lovely hoof print there, hoping its only that. He felt okay when I took him for a plod yesterday, if a little sore. Tried to speak to the vet in my break but he was out, he returned my call but I couldn't answer due to work. Going to try and ring tomorrow. Its awful knowing he is sore from his kick and his legs and I have no idea whats causing it or how best to help him :(
 
Lauren if he's sore & possibly lame why are you riding him? One minute you try all out to fix his problems , then you do this.

I'm sorry he's been kicked again, I hope your hunt for a new yard is successful because I don't think this is helping either of you.

I know you're with a good practice, but would it be worth getting a different vet out? Vets are only human & when they've been treating an ongoing problem for some time they can start to assume it's more of the same or get caught up in a method of treatment that actually isn't right for the individual. A fresh pair of eyes can see things differently & may come up with a new plan of action.
 
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I havent read the replys as just a flying visit! As you can't cold.hose could you invest in one of those boots? Yaknow the cold ones you fill up with water?

The thing about turning out overnight is the nights are getting shorter. It's still light at 10 and only dark until 4 ish here.
Movement will help the swelling so if he was mine my course of action would probably be cold hose or boot or stand in a tub of water the worse affected leg and maybe invest/make some posh socks for socks. I made womble a nose net as shop bought ones weren't the right size /shape for him. What about buying / making soke leg warmer type things to protect them. Something that is much more breathable than bandaging that will keep his legs cool. Thus not making the area not ideal for breeding bacteria, helping mud fever.
I'd clip them, wait for scabs to go, and then factor 50 them under some leg warmers.
We were always told that movement and a bit of cold hosing helps with lymphagitis
 
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I aren't allowed to cold hose sadly Dani. He does have some socks but the vet advised bandages due to the swelling. Vet advised me to ride him and I hadn't done that in a few days due to work. Maybe I shouldn't have but it seems to help a little
 
I got some cheap ice packs from Aldi, the gel filled soft plastic ones (I have also used ice cube bags in the past) and keep them in the freezer just in case I need a cold compress and can't cold hose for whatever reason, might be better than nothing.
 
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Ahh!! I never thought of that! Thank you. I have admit , after my yard hunt this morning I came to get him in to give him his lunch and he wouldn't let be anywer near the scabs on his legs. He has another bite on the other side of his neck now. so 2 bites on his left a kick to his hip of his left, a bite on his right and a kick to his rump on the right, along with various other cuts there are healing , self inflicted. Do feel very sorry for him.
 
Just a suggestion, but I would guess it is more probable that the photosensitivity/mud fever/swelling is actually far more likely to be one problem - whether it is the equivalent of cellulitis in humans (excess swelling which causes infection), or infection causing swelling, or allergic reaction or immune disorder - it's far more likely they are all one issue.

Horse ware do uv boots which I use on madam :) aloe Vera gel is fab and soothing for sore bits.

I have to be honest, if he was mine and things were as bad as they seem by your description, I would already be looking at steroids - the current management routine doesn't seem to be helping enough. I would also be asking for skin scrapings/biopsies and blood tests to work out what the cause is. :)
 
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