your recomendations please (bit long)

Dizzy Woo

Dizzy Woo

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2008
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Dorset
My Daisy Haffie is a real sweetie, we have been together just coming up for 3 years and we are happy hackers (although I would love to wear all the lovely gear and do my daughters RS fun dressage one year)
She has Haffie tendancies i.e. she can be stubborn and I beleive her to be a really clever girl. On the whole she is brilliant and does just what is asked of her, but out of the blue she 'plants' now and again and she also has issues with hacking alone (we do do it though) and also she is rather like a homing pigeon and seems to know exactly what direction we are going and if she 'considers' we have been out too long and i point her away from the route home she can get a bit spinny and awkward.
So (please excuse my rambling) I would like to do some groundwork with her to build up her confidence and our relationship.
Could anyone recomend a good book which would show me some stuff I could do with her.
I was watching a Trec video the other day and they were getting the horse to stand in a circle on his own, so me and Daisy practised that today and she got it really quickly, I think she would enjoy some groundwork
 
101 horsemanship exercises :D

Love it, has ridden and ground work... Explanations, pics, problem help. I love having some "structure".

My madam is also opinionated and nappy. For napping best thing I was ever told was if you've asked once clearly, and she goes against you, let her have her way but make it really hard work. So I want to go gorwards, she wants to go back we spin on tight circles until she chooses to go forward. Then she is a) more obliging as she feels it's her decision and b) learns that it's more hassle than worth to play up. I can't physically force her my way, so I have to use her energy to get my way... All be it slightly underhand tactics ;)
 
I get that about spinning until she 'decides' to go forward but how can that approach work with planting?
I did sit there the other day for about 5 minutes and just took in the lovely veiw and told her (myself) i was not gonna stress about it, but when she plants and you are with another rider you feel like a pain in the arse to them so then my little chunky legs start flapping, I start to get louder and louder and more andmore stressed and she just wont move :furious:
I hate myself after for getting angry with her, its like she just switches off, her little ears are always forward and she seems quite happy, just wont move :furious:
thanks for the recomendation, i think thats the one i saw recomeded before, Amazon here i come......................
 
This is where ground and flat work helps - I always always always ride with a schooling whip, I apply flexion one way in the neck, or apply pressure on one rein and use leg to ask to move over with pressure/poke on bum (not behind leg as she ignores it) to back up leg. I don't care if she Os turning for home, I would rathe madam moves than plants. Wherever movement may be towards - once she has movement it's easier to direct her. I tend to do a circle and push straight for trot so no hanging about.

I find madam planting much worse than napping as she has the energy when napping, so it's important to move the planting feet however the hell they move!!
 
popularfurball said:
- once she has movement it's easier to direct her. I tend to do a circle and push straight for trot so no hanging about.

I find madam planting much worse than napping as she has the energy when napping, so it's important to move the planting feet however the hell they move!!
Click to expand...

I used to be able to do tis but the last two plants have been 'absolutley no way am I moving at all' I have had to get off and walk for a while, the only thing she did seem to oblige with was rein back
We are out with her best buddy tomorrow and she does like to follow, so I may just let her follow past her favourite planting spot. the other thing i was gonna do was go round our common the other way so her planting spot was on the way home cos I bet she wont do it then.
Thanks PF have actually ordered that book of Amazon for £4 - Daisy the Amazing Haffie is on her way:wavespin:
 
Perfect Manners by Kelly Marks got me started :) You could also consider having some groundwork lessons to get you started, there is an excellent trainer in your part of the world who several people from this board have used, do a search for Sarah Weston :)
 
Thanks Yann, Sarah Weston did come out to my field neighbour and I was lucky enough to listen in, she was great
 
popularfurball said:
101 horsemanship exercises :D

Love it, has ridden and ground work... Explanations, pics, problem help. I love having some "structure".
Click to expand...

Arrgh I keep meaning to buy that book and forgetting when it gets to buying a new book time. I got 101 schooling exercises for myself for Christmas and I love the layout although it is a bit technical for non-schooling me it does have some great exercises in.
 
Stupid question time from the inexperienced one :redface:

What's the difference between napping and planting? I get that planting is just not moving, but I thought that was what napping was?!

I have been quite interested in this thread, I think there are quite a few horses like this while hacking alone & it's good to know the different tactics people use. Let us know how you get on with the groundwork. I'm considering buying the book and seeing if my RS will let me try it out on one of their ponies :unsure:
 
They're the same thing as far as I'm aware, although a horse can also nap by actively trying to change direction, spinning, running backwards and the like.
 
Laura_107 said:
What's the difference between napping and planting? I get that planting is just not moving, but I thought that was what napping was?!

I have been quite interested in this thread, I think there are quite a few horses like this while hacking alone & it's good to know the different tactics people use. Let us know how you get on with the groundwork. I'm considering buying the book and seeing if my RS will let me try it out on one of their ponies :unsure:
Click to expand...

Hi Laura, i think the difference is planting is as you say she just wont move and appears to not give a fig about it :wink:
Napping is when she is still moving but wanting and trying to go to where she wants, for example in a schooling session my daughters loan will keep trying to get to the gate or slow down by the gate. In Daisys case she seems to know when out on a hack and she considers we are about to go home if I then change direction she will become stubborn and sometimes spin or reverse rather than go where she has been asked -
 
I use the terms for different things though not everyone does.

Planting Is stopping dead and not moving. The most frustrating one I find!!

Napping is about going in a direction that you haven't asked to go in. Not necessarily towards home. It's defiance from the horse rather than misunderstanding instruction. They often set their necks so you lose steering as you can't move their heads.
 
Sorry - yes Cathy I agree - I should have explained better! I used defiance to distinguish the difference between going the wrong way because horse is green/rider gives mixed messages - it stems mostly from a lack of confidence alone, but when they nap them changing direction is very strong - you can't fight it with muscle power as they really mean it (defiant wasn't the right word to describe this, but I still can't think of the word!!). If given a clear aid the horse who lacks understanding will attempt to recorrect itself, whereas like you say an unconfident horse will actually panic and thus the napping gets worse.
 
oh I see wha tyou mean -- it is hard to find words sometimes as so many have so many other meanings atatched to them --

in the advanced training, the word "submission" has a lot of baggage attached to it -- to me it mean the horse happily OFFERS to let the rider lead and HAPPILY follows thei rlead - -- like when you are dancing one person takes the laed and the other follows.

but I used the word "submission" in a discussio nrecently and it stirred up all KINDS of anger and arguments -- about dominance and bullying...

face to face is SO much easier!!!

Cathy
 
Laura_107 said:
Stupid question time from the inexperienced one :redface:

What's the difference between napping and planting? I get that planting is just not moving, but I thought that was what napping was?!
Click to expand...

I think it's what most people have said: planting is stopping and refusing to move in any direction; napping is the horse going in the direction it prefers (towards home, towards the gate, away from the jump ...) ignoring the rider.

Going back to the question about the books, I agree with Yann that Kelly Marks' Perfect Manners is very good, but I think the best is Richard Maxwell he's very simple and very clear and he really helps you to sort our your relationship with the horse.
 
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