Farriers vs barefoot trimmers

I have been very interested in going barefoot for a while now. I discussed the subject with my farrier most visits.

He advised that, given the type and amount of work I tend to do with Joy on the surfaces we have to deal with, going barefoot won't be a good option for Joy.

I asked him last time he came about one of the horses on the yard which has all but retired. He suggested she went without backs. I asked him how many of his clients were barefoot and he said none! I asked him how many were fronts only and he said very few!

I think you have to take into consideration who you get advice from and why they hold the views they do :)
 
she insisted that it was trimmed by a regular farrier first and that I agreed to her whole system
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I smell a rat, no trimmer I've come across would insist that a horse should only ever be out 24/7, or that you have to keep your horse a certain way, pragmatism rules. That and the emphasis on 'alternative' care sounds a bit like Strasser trimming, which did build up quite a following in this country but has been pretty much discredited now. If so you've done right to steer clear.

That said many domestic horses are too fat, and given suitable shelter and freely available good quality forage most could probably live out all winter quite successfully, rugged if needs be and wouldn't miss their nice cosy stables at all.
 
senjj said:
EPs do a lot more than trim. They charge £40 for a consultation, which may not actually involve a trim at all. They are able to advise you on what needs doing to get the best possible foot under your horse.
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Advise on what? Diet? What else?

And what kind of "homework" are people getting? Given that it takes so long for hooves to grow through, what is the aim of it?
 
Well, my boy is retired through a stifle problem, so he will never be sound whether farrier or EP trimmed. But he will be perfectly comfortable with a farrier trim - but I am getting a lot of grief from barefoot converts who think I should stick with the EP.

I am finding it hard to find time to do the in hand walks, and quite honestly he is happier to be chilling in the field as he finds leaving the herd quite stressful - even if to walk down the lane.

I think I have made my mind up really - just have to duck the flack from well meaning, but quite foreceful friends! :rolleyes:
 
rtk - that does smell of Strasser. That's very different from what most sensible barefooters do.

Mine live out 24/7 in summer and are stabled with restricted turnout on sand in winter, spending less time out on sand does them more good than 24/7 out in mud and they're happier. Getting really good feet on horses out 24/7 in mud is actually a bit of a challenge.

EPs will give advice on the horse's environment but the best thing isn't always out 24/7 and as long as the important stuff gets taken care of they don't demand that you do as you're told in every way. They can also give some advice on diet, what kind of work the feet are up to and what kind of work you need to do to improve the feet, if any infection control is needed, if boots and pads can be used to help with comfort or improve the feet..

Hooves adapt to their environment so work on different surfaces can improve different structures. For example, road work is good for inner wall, walking in pads is good for weak frogs and internal structures. Even 20 mins a day of the correct kind of work can do a lot to improve the feet.
 
rtk said:
She did refuse to trim our youngster when we bought it, its feet were rather overgrown, she insisted that it was trimmed by a regular farrier first and that I agreed to her whole system. .
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I'm mystified by this. Surely an EP should take on an animal from the start, regardless of the condition.

My farrier, who is also a remedial farrier, keeps 4 out of 5 of our animals un-shod. He says that at least 50% of his clients horses are unshod.Like any good farrier, he will advise if he thinks a diet could be better, but he does not insist on us keeping to 'his' routine. I see no reason therefore, for ME, to pay an extra £30 - £40 for an EP trim. Incidentally, all of our animals are driven regularly too.
Like most equine things, I think each indiviual should make their own informed choices and not be made to feel guilty by someone else who has a different opinion.
Horses for Courses and all that:p
 
I wonder why these threads always have to degenerate into folk taking defensive positions?

There are many qualified farriers, vets and trimmers that I would not want near one of my horses.

On the other hand there are knowledgeable talented people in all those areas and we are lucky to have the choice.

My farrier trims my horses. He has a wealth of knowledge on keeping horses barefoot and spends hours chatting. He usually has a trainee barefoot trimmer with him these days too as he runs part of their rigorous training courses.

When qualified, these peple will know what to do with horses feet and will certainly not be 'messing around' with them. What an emotive phrase that is.

No need for anyone to feel guilt as we all think we are doing the best for our horses. A bit of knowledge and an open mind sometimes mean that we change our views over time though. That has certainly happened to me as I've matured.
 
Interesting thread Zinngy!

As one of the "golden oldies" here & recently being somewhat mind blown about the differnece between barefoot trimming & a farrier takinig shoes off & doing a trim ,,,

Over many years, I've often had my horse's shoes taken off & feet trimmed at the back end ,,, with the farrier say see you in the spring.

Recently, a friend began exploring barefoot trimming, talking to me about it & having held his UK farriers ticket some years ago & being very cautious about it, had to admit that it was somewhat mind-blowing!

Due to the fact that I have a great deal of respect for this guy, when he referred me to the Jamie Jackson & other well respected barefoot trimmer books, I bought a copies & studied them.

Sad to say, my farrier had no interest in the subject when I offered to lend him the books, yet he was suggesting all sorts of things to help improve my mares contracted heals.

With my friend's help & the books, I am now applying myself to learn how to do at least a maintenance barefoot trim for my horses & with his help in understanding what I need to to, my horses feet are now much more able to cope with UK conditions & be ridding &/or turned away with little or no problems!

Though we are waiting for my friend to get over to us again & guide me through pointers of doing a barefoot trim - he has tansport problems - because I am able to do simple things like keep their frogs in good order so they do not over-grow & hold onto muck & debris, with daily hoof picking, we now have that lovely "coconut" sound when their feet go down on concrete!
 
shoes and bad farriery have left me with a very big, very sore horse with a set of rubbish feet underneath him. i am using an EP, but i will never be 100% confident in anybody doing anything to his feet as so many people have promised me things that have failed to be delivered. at the moment, i am open to anything but am more swayed towards EPs way of thinking and philisophy, attitude and willingness to discuss their strategy with me, who after all is the paying customer who wants the best for their horse.

I wish i had been more convinced by barefoot 6 months ago, it may well have saved the life of a friends horse whose shoes were taken off as a 'last resort' and pretty much left to their own devices. :eek:

as others have said, there are some awful things being done to horses feet by both 'professionals' and 'untrained' people alike. a farrier with his 3 years of training and countless hours of experience has been responsible for the death of one horse, the permanent retirement of another and the current problems ive had with my boy - and thats just the ones i know about within a square mile of oneanother. clearly, somethings not working as it should be.

also, the evangelical beleifs people seem to hold about barefoot put me off for a long time, but there must be something to it if people do feel so strongly about it.

ETA - actually, im not open to ideas about shoeing at the minute. i dont want wedges and pads and glue, i want his feet to stand a chance of fixing themselves - shoeing was not working for us.
 
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Funny thing with my girl was that she became barefoot by 'accident'! Long story but basically couldn't be shod because of mess up by previous farrier and new farrier although wonderful just couldn't get the shoes to stay on because of the damage. So she went barefoot with the intention of using boots until her feet had grown enough to put shoes back on. Prob is I bought the wrong size and never got round to sending them back so started riding her short rides without any. After a few rides she was pretty much sound on the roads and only finds it uncomfortable on really stony areas - and that's probably because I don't ride her as much as I should! The farrier came out to trim and said they were the best he's seen them and that he would happily put on shoes! Decided against it as long as she is happy and sound she will remain barefoot though might get a pair of front boots if I want to go riding on very stony rides. Anyone want to buy a pair of unused boots! lol
 
Farriers v barefoot trimmers

Links to barefoot trimming.

http://www.hoofrehab.com/ - Pete Ramey

http://www.primechoice.com/jaime-jackson/ Jamie Jackson

Another NR thread on barefoot trimming - http://www.newrider.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-60458.html

Waiting till my friend can come over - transport problems - with a new rasp - one of a batch he bought - Mustag, I think. Used one of them recently that a friend recently bought - wow! what a difference compared to the softer steel one's I have.

In the UK, one is allowed to trim one's own horses although, not allowed to shoe unless farrier qualified.
 
The difference between an EP and farrier really does vary. There are some confused EPs out there who think they are doing the right thing and are essentially hurting the horse.

I had one who believed in "heels down" all the way. Not gradual either! He also completely removed the bars that help support the hoof. My horse was lame for over a month and even got HOLES in his frog due the impact from the rocky environment we were in.

I've also had a regular farrier trim as well and here's the difference from what I've observed. If you don't know the parts of the hoof and your horse is barefoot, I'd highly suggest you research so you know what you're dealing with.

Some farriers belive in just trimming the hoof and nothing else. They do not do a mustang roll on the edges leaving the hoof to flaring and chipping.

They sometimes will leave too much heel, forcing the horse in an uncomfortable position (imagine running and jumping in high heels, yikes!)

A farrier I recently had thought the hoof should be left the way it is growing since the "horses hoof is telling us it needs support there". My horse had crooked hooves and was limping badly at the trot. I evened them out and voila, problem solved.

An EP should be balancing the foot out evenly.

Should not be removing necessary structures like the bars

Should be doing a nice mustang roll to prevent chipping and cracking.

And most of all should be doing NO HARM!

halkynuk mentions some great websites, might I add http://www.equinepodiatry.net/

I HIGHLY recommend that everyone who takes their horse barefoot read up on different types of barefoot trims. If you arm yourself with the education and knowledge, it will make selecting a farrier, trimmer, EP, or whatever you call it much easier.

I trim my horse myself now because I was sick and tired of having people screw up his hooves.
 
Our traditional farrier at the barn could only make it out about every 8 weeks and was never available if you had an emergency or needed to get ahold of him. I found this unacceptable as I watched my poor horses heels become underslung and his feet were starting to resemble something that didnt look like a hoof by the time the 8th week would arrive.
I have been using an EP with a diploma and is a certified instructor for a year now and have not looked back. I have studied the program he follows and realize that there is a lot of learning involved and not all of the responsiblity is that of the trimmer. Owners and trimmers need to work together for the benefit of healthy hooves.
I do feel it is worth the extra money to have his feet done right so that I dont have to pay more money for the outcome of a poor trim. My horses feet grow out very quickly and thus he does need them done more often, and the EP will be there when I need him or have a question. I also have a record of my horses progress which is nice to look back on if ever needed.
In order for an EP to keep his diploma active he must regularly attend seminars and receive training in order to stay qualified.
My outcome has been very satisfying since switching. And even though the barefoot trim is more expensive it is still cheaper than having shoes. I plan on learning how to do it myself which will eventually be a lot cheaper but until then I will keep my horse as sound as he can be.
I think one of the differences is that the EP will focus on balancing the internal mechanics of the hoof and providing the proper stimulus for hoof growth and improvement, rather than just certain angles and procedures. Of course there are good and bad in everything and maybe I just got lucky enough to get a good one but I am definately not going back to underslung-uneven heels , and floppy looking feet.
 
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