Help! At my wits' end!

[squidsin]

Sorry to keep hogging the (lack of) confidence board but aaargh! Today my RI decided that I'd get on one of her horses (16.2 connemara) to give me some confidence and prove to me that I can still ride. She said he's a kickalong donkey. Well, not with me! No sooner had I got on him than he did a massive spook, followed by three smaller spooks. I didn't fall off, which was something I guess. They were shooting up on the estate, and it's blowing a gale too so the arena was rattling him and freaking him out, but I can't help feeling it's ME! I scare horses!

Anyway, I got off after 5 mins. I am HOPELESS.

I just don't know what to do now. I think part of the problem is I am psychically projecting my fear onto the horses I ride. I've absolutely no idea what to do about it though. Hypnotherapy? I feel like giving up altogether but I really love Poppy and I've always loved riding and AAARGH!

 

[Shetlander]

Been there and got the tshirt!

My experience is that I was totally projecting my anxieties onto the horse and whatever I thought about happening generally DID happen. Not great when you're imagining all kinds of awful stuff :frown: :help:

I went on a confidence coaching course using NLP which helped me see the light and start to re think my thinking but that isn't easy and only works if you're quite a visual thinker and are committed to the process of changing your mindset - not always easy when you're a jelly, I know.

The thing that made the biggest difference for me was learning a new way to be with Prince on the ground. As we re-built a relationship based on trust this way, things really started to improve.

I took the pressure off myself about riding completely. I will ride him again but right now we are working on games and schooling on a rope and at liberty. I also went on the Intelligent Horsemanship foundation course with Kelly Marks back in May this year and that helped me develop my confidence and body language on the ground.

Finally, I took Prince to a wonderful trainer for the summer and I visited and learned his way of doing things every few days - my boy had never been so calm! It was awesome! I'm still working on me - it's a long term project because my anxieties are so entrenched - but there is no way I'm giving up and I still REALLY enjoy my horsing :wink:

When I ride my other horse I don't set out with a plan to ride, I just say I'm going to groom or school and see how I feel. Taking the pressure off has helped endlessly. There is no pretending to be confident because you can't lie to a horse - he knows how I am before I know it myself.

Don't give up if you don't want to be beaten - there is a LOT of joy to be had on a journey with your horse xxx

 

[squidsin]

Perhaps you're right - maybe I SHOULDN'T ride her for a while. We are fine on the ground - I have no problems at all handling her. That's probably because I really enjoy messing round with her and am calm and relaxed on the ground. She is calm (with me, not with anyone else, ironically enough) on the ground too. I do need to stop stressing about riding her, but is not riding her the answer?

 

[Mary Poppins]

I honestly know exactly how you feel. On most horses I am so nervous I make the most placid ones go nuts. When I was a weekly rider my RI was at his wits end because I could only ride one horse with confidence. I have always been a one horse person and now Ben is the only horse I can ride. I do understand how crippling those nerves are. The only thing that has made me confident with Ben is to ride, ride and ride as often as I can.

Most people will say persevere with Poppy, do lots of groundwork and eventually one day it will all click into place. However, if it was me, I know that once my trust and confidence in a horse had been shattered to bits, like yours has, I would find it very difficult to get it back with that horse. I know that you want to keep her and work with her, but one of your options has got to be considering either selling her and getting something else, or loaning/sharing her with someone who can give her the education that she needs. You will also gain confidence from seeing someone else ride her.

Your RI’s plan for you to ride other horses is a good one, and if you want to keep on riding you need to carry on doing this. I would go to your local RS and ask to ride their most bombproof horse and go from there. You need some self belief and nerves of steel to get over this, but if you are determined enough then you will get back on and enjoy riding. The biggest question is what to do with Poppy in the short term while your confidence recovers.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I know that I will be in the minority by saying this, but at my yard the ethos is very much that a horse needs a job to do and if it can be ridden, it should be. Poppy is still very green and I do think that she needs to be ridden by someone. While groundwork would help your relationship with her, it will not improve her way of going under saddle and when you are ready to get back on she will be no further forward in her education or her confidence and you could be back to square one

 

[squidsin]

I agree that she needs to be ridden by someone else. My RI is going to start schooling her for me from next week. It certainly has crossed my mind to sell her (or rehome her) and buy an easier horse, but I am not quite 'there' yet. I may never be 'there.' Weirdly, although she's shattered my confidence, I still don't really want to ride any other horse but her. And the other thing is, I HAVE come back from this before, more than once now. In the summer, I was successfully jumping her and riding her 4 times a week, until she went lame, and we just haven't managed to come back from that. Also, on a purely practical note, I don't want to sell her right now as I wouldn't be able to show her off to her best advantage, and I am not sure what kind of buyer would take her off my hands.

I wasn't a nervous rider before this. I'm not really a nervous person! I can ski black runs! That's easy compared to horse riding, at least you only have your own body to try and control....!

 

[Rubic]

I do need to stop stressing about riding her, but is not riding her the answer?

Perhaps in the short term? Many people have horses and don't ride and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but if you want to ride then you can work towards that at your own pace

I think something like NLP would be really beneficial for you. To me it does seem like nerves have a huge part to play in some of your issues with Poppy and riding in general and if you can remain calm and positive you might find she improves but I understand it will be difficult to remain calm and positive if you have had a few frights.

How much is she exercised? She could well be one of the many horses that need consistency in the exercise. I know you've had various problems with her health and your nerves but have you had her in lots of consistent work for a few weeks and if you have is she any better? I always think that horses that are a bit spooky are much better with lots of work to do. It gives their brain something else to focus on other than "things to spook at". Rubic was always much less spooky if she was getting worked 5/6 days a week than she was if she'd had a week off!

Take the pressure of yourself. There is no rule saying you must ride, you just have to enjoy yourself. Set yourself some small goals - write a list and tick them off as you go or write a diary with all the positive things you achieve so that if you have a bad day you can look at all the good things you have done and get your brain out of the "I am HOPELESS" mindset! For every negative thing that happens with you and Poppy, write it down but come up with 3 positive things that also happened. Thinking about it keeping a daily diary of what you've done with her, fed her, how much turn out, the weather etc might be really good for you - perhaps you can work out what helps and what doesn't (maybe more exercise/less feed/more turn out will help or maybe you'll find she is worse in the wind or if you ride her straight from the stable when she hasn't been turned out).

Can you lunge her? Why don't you spend a week (or 2 or 3...however many you like) lunging her in her tack every day, build it up, loads of transitions and making the circle smaller and larger and maybe some poles to go over to get her focused and thinking. Maybe after a week/2/3 weeks, if you are happy with how she has gone on the lunge and you are having a good day, get on board and go a walk - it could just be a walk round the school once, if it helps get a person to walk round with their horse in front or a foot soldier - give her a pat and get off, no pressure to do anymore. Baby steps are the best way with things like this! Do you think something like that would help?

I think if you can get Poppy working consistently and you can do things to help your nerves you'll get there eventually. These things take time but there is no rush:wink:

 

[Rubic]

I also agree with MP about getting someone else to school her frequently and about getting riding lessons at an RS on their most bombproof horse and build it up :wink:

You will get loads of suggestions and ultimately you just need to work out what will work for you and Poppy.

 

[Flipo's Mum]

MP's advice is sound. She suggested the same to me in the early days with Flipo. And it wouldn't have been the wrong choice to make if you weigh up the risk and feel that it would be dangerous to continue. BUT, I chose not to listen to her (sorry MP:tongue.

You see, I knew, if I didn't sort out my fear with Flipo, it could happen with other horses as well. Lets face it, even the most stoic of horses will sense a tense unhappy and unconfident rider and would have to be an absolute saint not to respond. The one you rode yesterday may have been a 'kickalong donkey' and never shown any signs of spooking but he may only have been ridden by confident (or ignorantly confident) folk. And I'm sure he spooked with them and your RI, its just that they won't interpret it with the same self depreciation that you have because of your low self esteem when it comes to riding.
At the moment I'd say your senses are in overdrive when it comes to riding making it difficult to relax and that's communicated to the horse, and they reflect back how we are feeling. Its a useful measure - you know you're making progress when they start to calm down. I used to be able to document every moment of a ride, every little cock of the ear, head rise, change in the speed of the walk or trot, purely because I was on high alert incase something went wrong. I figure this is where you are right now. There are lots of things you can do to help you deal with that - singing, talking to other folk about unrelated drivel, reciting things. Keep your mind busy and let your body just do. But I think some sort of therapy might be good.

Exploring what is going on in your head, confidence, nerves, fear, understanding all of these feelings, why they happen, how you can cope with them and overcome them, has got to be a good classroom lesson. If that's cbt, hypnotherapy, EMDR (which is what I used) a confidence course which concentrates on how you deal with your horse, then I'd give it a shot. But I wouldn't put all your eggs in that one basket as its sure to compound the pressure you feel on yourself for not instantly flicking a switch and becoming confident overnight. Sadly, that will never happen.

You need to be careful not to put too much pressure on yourself if you are scared of ruining Poppy. I always used to think I had to ride otherwise it would be bad for Flipo. I thought I had to ride if I got him tacked up because he'd misunderstand the signals otherwise. It was bordering on ridiculous, the damage I thought I would do if he didn't have everything done as a normal horseperson would do.
Poppy won't be adversely affected if you choose to take a break from ridden work, if you get off when you want, if you don't get on, if you practice mounting up again and again. It will all help your confidence, and hers, and your confidence in each other. Take things slowly for both of you and it will help.

I always say it, but set your expectations low. I mean uber uber low. Intend to take all winter just to be able to get on her and ride for five minutes without issue and get off again. Bore yourself into taking risks. Find your comfort zone, stick to it for far too long and then have a 'sod it, im fed up' moment and push yourself a little bit. Not too much, but just a bit out of your comfort zone and then retreat back to your comfort zone for a while and see how you feel.

This might also sound strange, but be careful of professional folk around you. I relied on a few. Until I realised that I was deferring to their authority around my horse and I never got to learn to be the leader with my horse. I let them take control. I really needed to say to myself that I was going to be in charge, that I would protect and lead my horse, and to do this meant taking a step back from having these professionals involved for a while.
I'm not for one second advocating that you stop letting folk help you, but maybe you need to take charge of the help you want. Is your RI expecting you to have a normal lesson every time? Maybe you should suggest what you want to work on (in line with your baby steps plan) and concentrate on that. If it means she teaches you how to lunge, or walks out with you while you ride, or you spend sessions just concentrating on mounting up, then I'm sure she'll be willing to help you. And if not, get rid and find someone else. Funnily enough, the best progress I started to make, was when I got a helper friend who knew less than me. It put me in a position where I had to be in charge and helped no end.

You can get your confidence back Squidsin. It is possible. You've just got to be bloody determined and endure a bit of pain in the process. But you know what, I wouldn't change it for the world. Keep focused on why you're doing this and you'll get there. Have faith, lots of hugs x

 

[squidsin]

Perhaps in the short term? Many people have horses and don't ride and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but if you want to ride then you can work towards that at your own pace

I think something like NLP would be really beneficial for you. To me it does seem like nerves have a huge part to play in some of your issues with Poppy and riding in general and if you can remain calm and positive you might find she improves but I understand it will be difficult to remain calm and positive if you have had a few frights.

How much is she exercised? She could well be one of the many horses that need consistency in the exercise. I know you've had various problems with her health and your nerves but have you had her in lots of consistent work for a few weeks and if you have is she any better? I always think that horses that are a bit spooky are much better with lots of work to do. It gives their brain something else to focus on other than "things to spook at". Rubic was always much less spooky if she was getting worked 5/6 days a week than she was if she'd had a week off!

Take the pressure of yourself. There is no rule saying you must ride, you just have to enjoy yourself. Set yourself some small goals - write a list and tick them off as you go or write a diary with all the positive things you achieve so that if you have a bad day you can look at all the good things you have done and get your brain out of the "I am HOPELESS" mindset! For every negative thing that happens with you and Poppy, write it down but come up with 3 positive things that also happened. Thinking about it keeping a daily diary of what you've done with her, fed her, how much turn out, the weather etc might be really good for you - perhaps you can work out what helps and what doesn't (maybe more exercise/less feed/more turn out will help or maybe you'll find she is worse in the wind or if you ride her straight from the stable when she hasn't been turned out).

Can you lunge her? Why don't you spend a week (or 2 or 3...however many you like) lunging her in her tack every day, build it up, loads of transitions and making the circle smaller and larger and maybe some poles to go over to get her focused and thinking. Maybe after a week/2/3 weeks, if you are happy with how she has gone on the lunge and you are having a good day, get on board and go a walk - it could just be a walk round the school once, if it helps get a person to walk round with their horse in front or a foot soldier - give her a pat and get off, no pressure to do anymore. Baby steps are the best way with things like this! Do you think something like that would help?

I think if you can get Poppy working consistently and you can do things to help your nerves you'll get there eventually. These things take time but there is no rush:wink:

This is brilliant advice. I can lunge, and I think I'll stick to that for a while, plus my RI riding her for me. She needs to get used to the arena anyway. At the moment, I have riding lessons on Weds and Fri at 12, and I think that's putting too much pressure on ME feeling like I HAVE to ride and stressing me out. Also, the shooting season is in full swing and they always seem to be shooting at those times, which obviously isn't great for any horse, let alone a nervous horse/rider combo. (She is stabled on the West Wycombe estate which makes its money from shooting parties. We live here too. There are two pheasants in my garden right now, silly things. But I digress.)

When I was riding her more in the summer (prior to the lameness - she had to have a month off completely), she was going really well. She is definitely much more sensible if worked regularly. She came from a hunting yard and that's probably how they kept her sane. It's just hard to start working her regularly enough to get past the silly buggers stage! She lives out and is never ridden straight from the stables.

Thank you! Not that Mary Poppins' advice wasn't good and sensible too, I just don't really want to sell her or loan her out! Also, in the current climate, not sure I could even find a taker!

 

[squidsin]

Flipo's Mum, that has also made me sigh with relief a bit. I also agree with what you say about professionals - it has occurred to me before that I am over-dependent on my RI. I need to do stuff with Pops on my own, like lunge her - and be firm, so she actually does what I say! She is much more compliant with my RI around, as she's a bit scared of her. She's not scared of me. I wouldn't want my horse afraid of me, but I think I do need to set stricter boundaries.

I've tried CBT for my own anxiety issues (I have medium anxiety bordering on high at times. To meet me you wouldn't know as I come across as confident, but you can be confident about some things and anxious about others!) Not sure about that. NLP interests me. Might be worth a try!

I do think I can get through this and start to enjoy riding again. I refuse to believe that I have to give up something I've always loved because I've suddenly completely lost my bottle. Not forever, anyway. I'm not a quitter! (I should also mention that I am ridiculously hard on myself and even though I am quite a high achiever, it's never good enough in my view. I do have issues!)

It may also be that Poppy isn't the right mount for me in the long term. I just feel now would be a bad time to sell her/get rid of her.

 

[Mary Poppins]

MP's advice is sound. She suggested the same to me in the early days with Flipo. And it wouldn't have been the wrong choice to make if you weigh up the risk and feel that it would be dangerous to continue. BUT, I chose not to listen to her (sorry MP:tongue.

I did, and you proved me completely wrong (which I am very pleased about).

I am the worlds most cautious rider and I have never met another rider who is more nervous than myself. I think that horses pick up on our nerves and if you are not confident riding and handling, then it can just be very dangerous. I hate to see riders out of control, it terrifies me and I just don't want anyone to get hurt.

I know several people who are overhorsed. Their horses are on full livery and ridden by the yard staff daily. Their owners have lessons once or twice a week and they never ride outside the arena without an instructor present. To me, this just isn't much fun and it is a very expensive way to keep a horse - they may as well just ride in the riding school.

I want a horse who I can ride at any day or night, on my own and feel confident and safe. I am so, so lucky to have one, but i haven't been without my nervous moments. I have to ride everyday for both Bens weight issues and most importantly for my pyschological state of mind. If am feel nervous about jumping, I MAKE myself go over a cross pole. If I find myself making excuses to myself about riding over the fields, I MAKE myself go and canter across them. If I don't face my nerves head on and get rid of them as soon as they arrive, I worry that a small issue will turn into a big one and I absolutely refuse to be scared to ride my own horse. I have developed a very stubborn mindset in that I will NOT be beaten by my nerves. For me, not riding because I lacked confidence would do nothing to improve my confidence, it would just make it worse because the issue would build up and up inside my head.

 

[Trewsers]

Haven't read all the replies but I wouldn't get other people to ride her - she is your horse and unless she's coming to any harm not being ridden then I just would do other things with her. Lunging is good - what about having a lunge lesson with your RI? Not saying you don't do it properly but it is sometimes good to brush up on your skills. What about long reining? Could you do that or take instruction? The idea of other people schooling my horse would not work for me - so this is only my idea, you may think otherwise. You say you are okay together on the ground - well that's a good start and from that things can only grow in a productive way. Small steps are what I would aim for. Doesn't matter if you used to jump etc the fact is right now your mojo has left town and you need to get it back slowly and carefully!
I personally don't see any point having lessons on school horses either. You know you can ride but surely you want to get back into the groove with your own horse? From past experience I can go one of two ways: either the lesson on the schooly is a disaster or can go so well - but then either way I still don't want to get back on my own!!! This happened to me a long time ago - but what I really needed was to take the pressure off myself and set smallachievable goals. This may or may not work for you - but just my two penneth!

 

[Gimp]

I dont think getting someone else riding her will do her any harm, I do believe anyway that horses should be used to other people riding them incase you ever had to sell, or you decided to sell her at least she will be more accomplished.

Ive found watching someone ride a horse can also aid your own confidence. You can see the quriks from the ground and how the rider deals with them, and sometimes it makes you realise that actually the horse isnt that bad! Its all the silly worries spinning round your head that is building up your own anxiety.

On one yard, we had a lady whos instructor would ride her horse for about 75% of the lesson and she would watch, and then mount for the remainder. It really worked for her, and eventually she was riding the horse herself - quirks and all!

Lots of ideas posted on here anyway! I guess its finding out what works for you and your horse. I do agree someone should be riding it though, especially if you are possibily selling. It will give her the best possible chance for a new home and job.

 

[tbaynancy]

I did, and you proved me completely wrong (which I am very pleased about).

I am the worlds most cautious rider and I have never met another rider who is more nervous than myself.

MP, that's only because I live across the ocean!!!!!

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

You have had lots of thoughtful advice from people who empathise with your problem more than I can (I have not yet found the bottom of my bottle, though knowing horses it's only a matter of time). I would say, though, that although I have never ever been afraid to ride Ziggy, I have always really appreciated my RI getting on him and confirming that he is really quite difficult to ride! So I would be in the "get my RI to ride him" camp.

I also wholeheartedly appreciate the correct positioning of the apostrophe in your thread title. How delightful :bounce:

 

[squidsin]

I dont think getting someone else riding her will do her any harm, I do believe anyway that horses should be used to other people riding them incase you ever had to sell, or you decided to sell her at least she will be more accomplished.

Ive found watching someone ride a horse can also aid your own confidence. You can see the quriks from the ground and how the rider deals with them, and sometimes it makes you realise that actually the horse isnt that bad! Its all the silly worries spinning round your head that is building up your own anxiety.

On one yard, we had a lady whos instructor would ride her horse for about 75% of the lesson and she would watch, and then mount for the remainder. It really worked for her, and eventually she was riding the horse herself - quirks and all!

Lots of ideas posted on here anyway! I guess its finding out what works for you and your horse. I do agree someone should be riding it though, especially if you are possibily selling. It will give her the best possible chance for a new home and job.

I'm not selling! That's not happening. I couldn't do it.

I am happy for someone to ride her but it actually has to be the right rider. I know from riding her myself that if someone gets on her, thinks they know it all, and tries to push her too hard, or uses a schooling whip, she's not going to respond well. Not that I've done that! But she is green and needs to be clear what's being asked of her. I want someone who's going to ride her calmly and school her slowly.

 

[squidsin]

I also wholeheartedly appreciate the correct positioning of the apostrophe in your thread title. How delightful :bounce:

Ha ha! I did actually consider putting 'my wit's end' but even I, in my negative frame of mind, concede I have more than one wit!

Actually feeling far more positive now. The horse whisperer has just left us and she was fantastic!

 

[Gimp]

I'm not selling! That's not happening. I couldn't do it.

I am happy for someone to ride her but it actually has to be the right rider. I know from riding her myself that if someone gets on her, thinks they know it all, and tries to push her too hard, or uses a schooling whip, she's not going to respond well. Not that I've done that! But she is green and needs to be clear what's being asked of her. I want someone who's going to ride her calmly and school her slowly.

Sorry I thought you were thinking about selling from a previous post on here?! I hope you find the right rider for her, if someone's getting on my horse with that attitude you explained - I'd be asking them the get straight off! A green and nervous horse needs someone sympathetic but who won't accept foul play! and can ride through any 'quirks'. Consistency is key with something green. if the horse is flighty though, that may never change no matter how much training it has.

 

[Gimp]

Ha ha! I did actually consider putting 'my wit's end' but even I, in my negative frame of mind, concede I have more than one wit!

Actually feeling far more positive now. The horse whisperer has just left us and she was fantastic!

What did the horse whisper do