Severe bit or not?

[KaileeTheKool]

How severe would this bit be considered? Compared to some, it seems pretty gentle, but I don't know if it is

Description:
Black satin pinchless bit

• Level two
• 6-1/2 in medium shank

Edit: After posting this, I went to find out what the bit levels even are. I found the Myler bitting system, and this doesn't really look like a level 2. Is it really?

 

[Doodle92]

I have never seen it so no real idea. But the shanks seem to be really long and so I would say very severe. Mouth piece looks narrow. So for some horses again really harsh depending on the make up/size of their mouth

 

[carthorse]

Is this is a Western bit designed for a horse that's trained to neck rein rather than work in a contact? If you were to take a contact like you would in English riding then the leverage would make it a very severe bit.

 

[KaileeTheKool]

Is this is a Western bit designed for a horse that's trained to neck rein rather than work in a contact? If you were to take a contact like you would in English riding then the leverage would make it a very severe bit.

Not sure what it's made for, but I use it for neck reining

 

[newforest]

My limited understanding of neckreining, is you use the neck to turn with the rein on the neck.. Novice horses are all started in a snaffle bit, be it reining or western, so no idea why you are using something that you do not know what effect its use will have.

 

[Jessey]

It’s a western bit, it’s designed to be used with a loose rein, neck reining where the weight of the rein on the neck is the cue not where the indirect rein is pulled across. It’s often called a shanked snaffle, but it isn’t a snaffle, it has a completely different action, it’s a curb bit. Big shanks, with a single jointed mouth mean leverage on a nut cracker mouthpiece can cause a lot of damage in the wrong hands…but that’s true of most bits, it’s just more easily done with a shanked bit that has a jointed mouth like that.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

My rule would be that if I don't know exactly why the bit is right, don't use the bit.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I have no idea!

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

dont like the joint this one with the lozenge would be nicer, without the curb chain.

I ride western in one of these you can use it on the ring or on the bottom ring. Buddy neck reins on it really easily

 

[Jessey]

A curb bit used without a curb stops the bit working as it should and can cause more damage, not something I’d ever do.

 

[carthorse]

A curb bit used without a curb stops the bit working as it should and can cause more damage, not something I’d ever do.

I was going to say the same, if you take away the curb chain then much stronger leverage can be placed on the poll, and if the bit is ported there's the ability to cause damage to the palate too.

 

[KaileeTheKool]

Thank you all for your replies, they are very helpful

 

[LadyStetson]

"Severe" is relative. If a horse is not trained to use a bit, it can be very severe. If for example you were using this with a young horse that was learning, it's too much. If you were using it on a loose rein on a horse trained to neck rein, then no, it just allows for a very light cue, which is the goal of neck reining. This bit was not made for "stop" and neither was any bit, really.

A snaffle is severe if the horse is bulldozing through it. A rider can do some serious damage to the bars if using a snaffle harshly, rather than using something else with some leverage, snaffle with a different cheek piece, slow twist etc. and a lighter cue to teach the horse what the rider needs him to do.

 

[carthorse]

@LadyStetson this is true, but the fact is it's far easier to cause a lot of damage with a bit like this than with a snaffle or indeed most non-leverage bits. Also, sad to say, many riders think they have hands good enough to use a potentially strong bit lightly but the evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[LadyStetson]

I've found more damage done by snaffles with people that are trying not to "abuse" the horse with a stronger bit. Bruised bars, sometimes even damage to the teeth. Some horses need more than a snaffle and the rider is not doing the horse any favors by allowing him to run through a snaffle and then hauling the horse around by his face in the snaffle when a light curb or even just a full cheek would have stopped that behavior in it's tracks and taught the horse correctly. The rider is more worried about the "bond" (don't get me started) than the horse's health, rider's safety and the safety of those around them. I love my french links as much as the next guy and 4 of my 6 ride in them: one rides in a hanging cheek, one in a D ring, the other two in a loose ring. I have one that rides in a junior cowhorse (mild curb) and one that rides in an Argentine. The bit is what the horse needs, but also needs to be what the rider can handle.

Bits like the one pictured tend to scare people away, which is a good thing. If you don't know how to use such a bit and are scared by it, you should not use it.

The bit pictured is not a "light curb"...it's a bit for a refined horse.

 

[KaileeTheKool]

I've found more damage done by snaffles with people that are trying not to "abuse" the horse with a stronger bit. Bruised bars, sometimes even damage to the teeth. Some horses need more than a snaffle and the rider is not doing the horse any favors by allowing him to run through a snaffle and then hauling the horse around by his face in the snaffle when a light curb or even just a full cheek would have stopped that behavior in it's tracks and taught the horse correctly. ...The bit is what the horse needs, but also needs to be what the rider can handle.

Bits like the one pictured tend to scare people away, which is a good thing. If you don't know how to use such a bit and are scared by it, you should not use it.

The bit pictured is not a "light curb"...it's a bit for a refined horse.

I agree, I tried this particular horse in an eggbutt snaffle for a while and she ran right through it neckreining and direct reining. It was not pretty. Before I got her she was in some sort of spade bit with really long, straight shanks. This was the sort of middle ground my dad picked out that she goes really well in.

 

[carthorse]

@KaileeTheKool please tell me that by direct reining you don't mean riding in a contact or with rein aids used in English riding, this bit has absolutely no place in that style and if a horse "needs" it for control then what it really needs is schooling and/or the rider learning to ride a lot better.

@LadyStetson I don't agree that for general riding a horse needs a strong bit, if that's the case then what it truly needs is either reschooling and/or a more skilled rider. I find the rider that will haul a horse around in a basic snaffle will also do so in a stronger bit, the problem isn't the horse. There are times when a stronger bit may be wise for safety, eg going hunting, but that's occasional use not everyday. Interestingly the french link has recently been banned by British Dressage because pressure testing and other new methods of assessing action have shown it isn't the kind bit that it's long been thought to be.

 

[KaileeTheKool]

@KaileeTheKool please tell me that by direct reining you don't mean riding in a contact or with rein aids used in English riding, this bit has absolutely no place in that style and if a horse "needs" it for control then what it really needs is schooling and/or the rider learning to ride a lot better.

With an eggbutt snaffle, DEFINITELY not *this* bit. I would always avoid contact at all costs with any sort of shanks of any lenth

 

[Jessey]

please tell me that by direct reining you don't mean riding in a contact or with rein aids used in English riding,

Direct rein just means using a pull action i.e. right rein to go right, as opposed to an indirect or neck rein where you use your left rein (laid on the neck) for a right turn

 

[LadyStetson]

Not all horses can, nor should they ride in snaffles. A rider/trainer has to move beyond the stereotypes of what they define as a 'harsh' bits (which usually means anything that is not a snaffle) and do what the horse needs to be comfortable. Any bit is only as harsh as the hands that use it. Snaffles can be very harsh when not used properly. This is not about showing, this is about riding, two entirely different worlds.