The stupid hunt ....

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Francis Burton said:
In that case, I misunderstood what you wrote and I'm sorry. :o

Rodeo is a whole other debate... I'm not keen on what goes on there either, but in the case of bucking horses I think their discomfort really is short-lived as a rule and the rest of the time they live quite decent lives, allegedly. That doesn't mean I condone it - but bullfighting is much, much worse in my opinion.
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I think both are truly terrible.

Bullfighting is horrific - but some people are very ignorant to what it entails and how much the animals actually suffers. I have seen horse fighting videos in Asia on youtube, and I really am surprised I wasn't physically sick. Truly digusting. However, I am sure some people would go ape over horse fighting and not care so much for the poor bulls.
 
I wish in some ways that I hadn't looked at that link, pictures don't normally have that big an impact on me but those did. How can we condone hurting an animal on purpose (cutting off that bulls ear!) I personally don't think that humans are so above animals (I know animals do not see the past/future the same as humans) that we should be treating them so differently from how we would expect to be treated. As little pain as possible and as nice a life as possible.

When the hunt used to hunt around us they often filled in fox/badger/rabbit hare sets prior to the hunt going out so that the fox had no where to go to ground, not too much chance of escape for it healthy or otherwise. I also am aware that one day a local in the village lost their small dog to to the hounds who were being exercised and it certainly was not a little nip on the back of the neck, rather there were many small parts to be collected at the end.

Sorry that this doesn't read well, is not informative and is probably useless but it is a reactionary post (in part) to those pictures of the bull having it's ear cut off. Does anyone know why someone would want to do that and find pleasure in it? And not be upset/bothered by the bulls pain? :confused:
 
I think foxhunting is cruel and pointless, after all, hunts killing the odd fox here and there isn't going to reduce the population significantly anyway. I don't see the fun in participating in something that the whole point is to catch and kill an innocent animal when there is a fun and animal cruelty free alternative (i.e. drag hunting)

however I think there are many other forms of animal cruelty besides foxhunting that also need to be sorted out, especially intensive farming, cruel transport of meat animals, the amount of dogs that are put down in pounds etc.

Basically I think a large number of people are either ignorant or just don't care or even worse intentionally set out to hurt animals and until that changes then animal cruelty will continue.
 
The world is slowly changing for the better, and animals welfare is coming first, it is up to people to make the right choices on where they buy meat,eggs,and toiletries from. Iam a vegetarian so find this very easy to avoid any form of animals being cruely treated. And people who do eat meat can make well educated choices where they buy from too.

Bloodsports are cruel and hopefully one day they will not be allowed at all.
 
kirby said:
The world is slowly changing for the better, and animals welfare is coming first, it is up to people to make the right choices on where they buy meat,eggs,and toiletries from. Iam a vegetarian so find this very easy to avoid any form of animals being cruely treated. And people who do eat meat can make well educated choices where they buy from too.

Bloodsports are cruel and hopefully one day they will not be allowed at all.
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I think that is an excellent summary of how I feel. I was a vegetarian for 8 years, but when I had my son I felt that it would be too difficult to bring him up on a totally veggie diet as the nursery dinners and school dinners will often often contain meat. I therefore found an excellent local butcher and had a long conversation about where the meat came from, how the animals were killed etc. and thought that it was the most humane way to do it. Yes I do pay more than supermarked meat, but at least I know that the least amount of suffering took place.
 
1) Then why, when foxes escape by going to ground are they dug out by the hunt?

and

2) What's the need for the hunt to cut of the bush and feet of a dead fox?
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It is the landowner's decision, or rather it was pre-ban, if he wanted the fox dug and dispatched with humane killer then that was his prerogative. We are there for the pest control. Post-Ban, and this shows how ludicrous the new law is, terriers can be used below ground to protect game birds, but not sheep or other animals. Our terriermen are governed by a strict code of behaviour and this is adhered to every time they go to work.

Pre-ban when foxes were being killed, it was traditional that a trophy would be taken after a successful conclusion. This could be kept by the staff or awarded to a follower. It might seem gruesome, but it showed a respect for the quarry. Hounds were rewarded by being allowed to break up the remains of the carcass, which is where some of the anti hunt 'evidence' comes, despite this being a post-mortem activity.
 
kirby said:
on ''what fox hunters think to elephants being hunted and killed in Africa for ruining crops'' ???
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Actually I am pro population management of elephants, the same as I am in favour of managing UK ecosystems. Schemes are currently running, which allow the triple benefit of income from big game shooting trips, control of the elephant population, which is raging out of control and also gives the local villages meat that will feed them for weeks. I think this is under the Campfire scheme, which is a brilliant idea.

Funnily enough, I don't sit at this computer waiting for posts to be added, I have a life, as such I might not respond immediately...jeez!
 
india said:
I've already asked this question but got no replies, so I'll ask it again.

If it's only the weak and old that are singled out, why are healthy foxes that have escaped and gone to ground, dug out by the hunt?

Plus, how many ill, weak or old foxes are actually caught in the cub hunting season compared to healthy young ones?

Also, can I ask again why the tails (bush) and feet are cut of a dead fox?
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Foxes are only dug out at the wish of the farmer-mostly
Foxes brushes arnt cut off as much as they used to be,not sure why they are,ive got a mask and a brush on my wall that my terrier went to ground with BEFOR the ban!
 
india said:
You don't need to be a vegetarian to have compassion for animals who suffer in the name of sport or entertainment.:)

Am I right in thinking what your trying to say is that if you did stand and watch a fox being ripped to bits, it would become a reality, but while you can turn a blind eye to what happens, you can carry on enjoying hunting without feeling any guilt?
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Yup.:)
 
kirby said:
The world is slowly changing for the better, and animals welfare is coming first, it is up to people to make the right choices on where they buy meat,eggs,and toiletries from. Iam a vegetarian so find this very easy to avoid any form of animals being cruely treated. And people who do eat meat can make well educated choices where they buy from too.

Bloodsports are cruel and hopefully one day they will not be allowed at all.
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changing for the better? your having a laugh!banks going bust, pensions being eroded, stock market crash, polution, unemployment going up, recession on our doorstep etc etc etc.

Kirby says "it is up to people to make the right choice" but who's right choice is it they should take? There own to be free to do what they want within the boundaries of the law or someone elses choice because they don't like something and wish to impose their will?

I have no problem with people disagreeing with what I or others do but I do have a problem when people wish to ram their beliefs down the throats of those doing things they don't agree with. We supposedly live in a free society so leave each to their own.
 
I don't know number wise but in my experience not that many foxes are caught during cubbing, it is more a transition period where new hounds are taught to hunt, old hounds get back into hunting and people and horses also get back into things. I like to think of it as a practice run really, it is less formal and less is expected of new horses etc. Sorry if this is not the answer that you were looking for.
 
Haphazard said:
I have no problem with people disagreeing with what I or others do but I do have a problem when people wish to ram their beliefs down the throats of those doing things they don't agree with. We supposedly live in a free society so leave each to their own.
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I have to agree with that, i have been reading some of the posts on this thread and there seems to be no room for discussion with some people.

I have been hunting and i will go hunting again, that is my choice. However i would imagine i would be absolutely gutted if i saw a fox getting ripped to shreds in front of me. The whole thing about elephants, they do take meat etc from them so that's the same as us killing cows surely?

It seems that to some people an elephant is more worthy of life than say a cow... so how can you make that decision?

I guess it's just my way of thinking but i have no problem with killing an animal for food as in my mind that's kind of what happens anyway.

The whole battery hen thing i ***-like quite a bit, they have to live in that for there whole lives, which is why i can't compare that to a hunt chasing a fox... a lifetime compared with a few minutes. It's just not the same to me, but i guess that's just my opinion and i don't expect everyone to agree with it.
 
Cubbing was traditionally about dispersing the fox population, hounds don't need to be taught to hunt, but they do need to learn what NOT to hunt. Thus early hunting is a job of work and not a jolly gallop. In my limited experience very few foxes were killed, it most certainly isn't the slaughter portrayed by anti-hunt groups. Cubbing is a word we try to avoid now, as the young foxes are fully independent by the time autumn hunting starts, it was never about slaughtering as many baby foxes as we could find.
 
I have to agree with you Kc, my OH is a farmer so I can't say too much but I have a much bigger problem with factory farming than any other "animal welfare" issue, a animal that lives is these conditions that has never seen the sky has had its whole life wasted. I would much rather eat a pheasant that has been shot in the wild, I mean ok it may have suffered for a very short time but whos to say that the chicken bought from a super market had a quick humane death because I can assure you that many don't, at least the pheasant has had a relatively natural life.
 
I have no problem with people disagreeing with what I or others do but I do have a problem when people wish to ram their beliefs down the throats of those doing things they don't agree with. We supposedly live in a free society so leave each to their own.
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I'm afraid the perception of whether something is being rammed down one's throat tends to depend on whether and how strongly you agree or disagree with what the other person is saying...

If people find something reprehensible or immoral then they have a right to say so and try and do something about it.
 
country_bumpkin said:
Cubbing was traditionally about dispersing the fox population, hounds don't need to be taught to hunt, but they do need to learn what NOT to hunt. Thus early hunting is a job of work and not a jolly gallop. In my limited experience very few foxes were killed, it most certainly isn't the slaughter portrayed by anti-hunt groups. Cubbing is a word we try to avoid now, as the young foxes are fully independent by the time autumn hunting starts, it was never about slaughtering as many baby foxes as we could find.
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Sorry, that is sort of what I meant, I didn't mean jolly good gallop but when I have been unsure of a horse or likewise when I first started hunting I was told to come cubbing first.
 
Yann said:
I'm afraid the perception of whether something is being rammed down one's throat tends to depend on whether and how strongly you agree or disagree with what the other person is saying...

If people find something reprehensible or immoral then they have a right to say so and try and do something about it.
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and thats probably how a lot of wars start, promotes terrorism and crime. I am sure the many people killed through acts of terrorsim ( or having the right to say so and do something about it) would take a different view Yann
 
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