how can you tell if a bridle is english leather or not?

[laceyfreckle]

I recently bought a new bridle off ebay described as a bath exercise bridle, english leather by Shires.

It came without tags and is stamped 'pony' but just doesn't look english leather to me.

Before I start to moan at the seller is there any way I can tell its definitely is or isn't english leather. (looks the same as a cheapy bridle such as kincade)

Would it be 'stamped'? I can't find a stamp anywhere.

 

[Kis Vihar]

Hi

It would not necessarily be stamped, but usually 'Made in England' or 'English Leather' (These mean different things - see 'essay' below!) would be on a tag somewhere as a 'selling point'!

Our stuff is marked where we know, bridles are usually marked on the headpiece somewhere, unless it's made to order, then we usually leave a discreet maker's mark. Stirrup leathers are stamped on the underside below the buckle, for example.

I would know immediately as I work with English leather every day, if your bridle was English or not. Telling European leather from English leather can be a bit tricky, as most European leather is good. Poor quality leather comes from coutries with the wrong sort of climate, generally - hotter countries...again see essay below!

Here is advice from Paul.... Weird, but try it! (not being kinky here, honest!)

Have you given it a good sniff?? Does it smell LIKE LEATHER? Take something that you KNOW is English leather. Give it a good sniff. Then smell your new bridle. Leather should smell like leather. If it smells of anything else, chances are it's not English.

Here's the essay....

Do you know the other 'English leather' loophole? Why there are bridles available on places like eBay being sold for £39 or thereabout, and sold as English leather?

An English cow-hide is shipped abroad, to somewhere like China, for example, where labour is cheap, and quality is not so good. Someone makes the leather from the English cow hide. The tanning process abroad is different to the UK, you cannot produce leather to the same quality as the UK in a warm climate. Leather is vegatable tanned. There is different vegetation in somewhere like China or India to the UK. The best is Oak-Bark Tanned....this can't be produced in a country without oak trees!

Someone then makes up the bridle, they are mass produced from the 'English' cow skin, which has now been tanned to become leather. Often, buckles are poor quality and workmanship and stitching is poor.

The finished product is shipped back to the UK, and sold, legally, as 'English leather'. It's a real bug-bear of traditional saddlers such as ourselves, who only use English leather....!

Speak to unicornleather on here....Oz is very good on this subject!

The material cost to make an English leather pony bridle...I mean where the leather is made in England, is around £30. A bridle takes a day to make by hand. Machine stitched is obviously quicker. Add the labour cost, and profit, and you are looking at a MINIMUM of around £55 for a pony bridle.

Obviously I don't know what you paid, but if it was a lot less, then chances are, your bridle is a) foreign leather of b) made abroad as described above, from an English cow!!

I hope this has been some help!

 

[laceyfreckle]

Thanks

It doesn't really smell of anything A bit leathery but not a proper 'leather' smell. It is new though.

Theres no marks on it other then 'pony' stamped on it.

Whyat made me wonder is it isn't brilliantly finished..... the stiching on the rein stoppers is a bit in places.and not really noticeable but the noseband buckle that does up round the head has the leather thats stitched round the buckle so the rough side is showing out, not noticeable til you look, but still.

It's 'new' leather but seems soft but um, plasticy to look at but fine to feel. might be just me because I haven't bought a new english bridle in years though.

If it is the bath bridle as advertised (but has no tags so could not be?) it retails at £59 but I bought it new for £23 from someone who din't have a use for it.

 

[horsy]

Sorry Laceyfreckle haven't a clue other than how it smells as Kis Vihar says, and wether it looks plasticy, all the foreign leather bridles I've ever had looked as if they had a shiny plastic coating on the good side.

But Kis Vihar that essay is fascinating! I never knew that!

 

[Kis Vihar]

Thanks

Whyat made me wonder is it isn't brilliantly finished..... the stiching on the rein stoppers is a bit in places.and not really noticeable but the noseband buckle that does up round the head has the leather thats stitched round the buckle so the rough side is showing out, not noticeable til you look, but still.

There isn't really an excuse for bad stitching. Just one comment...if you mean that the leather is folded 'up and outwards, away from the horse's face' on the noseband headpiece, this is actually correct. The cheek pieces where they buckle to the headpiece should be the same. I'll try and post a picture of one of my bridles..... probably not a good picture.... but I'll try!

 

[Wally]

Agree with Kis Vihar, always a fold away from the face.

 

[SavingGrace]

The bath bridle that shires do whether its james sterling or blenheim neither are english leather! The James Sterling is really nice quality imported compared to the blenheim though.

 

[laceyfreckle]

There isn't really an excuse for bad stitching. Just one comment...if you mean that the leather is folded 'up and outwards, away from the horse's face' on the noseband headpiece, this is actually correct. The cheek pieces where they buckle to the headpiece should be the same. I'll try and post a picture of one of my bridles..... probably not a good picture.... but I'll try!

Apologies Must try to stop being so over analytical

The bath bridle that shires do whether its james sterling or blenheim neither are english leather! The James Sterling is really nice quality imported compared to the blenheim though.

this was the link.........so its not english leather then?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=280302945727

just found this
http://www.totally-tack.co.uk/acatalog/Good_leather__nice_price.html

Do i have reason to complain then as was really looking for english leather bridle.

 

[mu0ljk]

just found this
http://www.totally-tack.co.uk/acatalog/Good_leather__nice_price.html

Do i have reason to complain then as was really looking for english leather bridle.

Well if you were set on an english bridle then the totally tack website says it is european so it wasn't as described, so I would say that you have grounds to complain. Not sure if you'll have any luck though! (sorry, a bit fed up with ebay at the mo ) Keep hold of that site though so you can send it to the seller and quote from it so you have proof to back the complaint up.

 

[newforest]

Sellers normal get out is i thought it was english!
Been there had that.
I always refund if buyer not happy so you maybe ok.

 

[laceyfreckle]

I don't think the seller DID realise which is why I don't want to be too unfair, I don't think she would have quoted from the website otherwise......BUT i DID want a english leather bridle (not sure why tbh just this time I want to get good quality tack while I have a few pennies so I don't have to keep replacing tack. I also got concerned a while back when some leather stirrup leathers (imported leather) snapped while my friend was riding, was a shock to rider and pony!.

Now I'm just concerned as to whether everything I look at is REALLY english leather or not!

I do still like the heritage bridles, as far as I can tell they are english leather?

 

[Chip]

This is what the Shires website says about the bath bridles.

SHIRES BATH EXERCISE BRIDLE
This James Sterling Bath exercise bridle has a plain cavesson and browband and supplied with rubber covered reins. Made from quality James Sterling European Leather.

Blenheim Bridles from Shires Equestrian

Hand crafted, economically priced leather

SHIRES BATH SNAFFLE BRIDLE
The Shires Bath Snaffle Bridle has a plain cavesson and plain browband and is supplied with rubber covered reins. Hook stud billets.

So, no, neither is English Leather

 

[jaydevon]

the easiest way to confirm how english it is, look for english leather and made in england.. the biggest give away will be the price. 80-100 quid easy.

BUT keep in mind if your after quailty it is worth going with an establised name and paying a bit more,

the likes of stubben isnt english BUT is a really good quailty, and the bridles last forever,

with tack it is very much a case of you get what you pay for.

the other thing ive found to be a tell tale side is the quailty of the leather on the inside, for example indian leather tends to be rougher., as others have said, the quailty of stictching, and if you lok at the marks on the bridle, forigen stuff tends to be uneven..

 

[Wally]

English leather ought to have a waxy smooth finish to it. It ought to smell like expensive leather.

English ought to be stitched 10 to the inch at the very least. All the edges should have been polished to a high smooth shine. The hookstuds should have shiny edges too and all the runners and keepers should have been boxed off and re creased.

 

[laceyfreckle]

Thank you..I know what to look for now

The ebay seller did say she thought it was english and she is right that the £55 she paid for it and it retails at still makes it a ok bridle.

on a off note I am quite impressed with myself that I managed to tell it wasn't english

She has given me a discount on it (I won it for £23 incld p&p) and I will keep it for now but I do still want a english leather bridle but will probably be looking at a proper saddlers such as Kis Vihar on here, so might have to part with more pennies for more quality but at least that way it can be made to definitely fit too.

 

[Kis Vihar]

English ought to be stitched 10 to the inch at the very least.

We stitch all bridlework 10 to the inch, unless we are felling silly and make a show bridle, when we do 12 to an inch, and Paul in his insanity.....did a bridle at 16 to the inch once..... Because he felt like it! Think we still have it here somewhere....!

Often, badly made bridles which are machine stitched, especially the delightful foreign ones, have stitches missed altogether!

 

[acw295]

Heritage

I was told - but I cannot day if this is true or not - that the Heritage bridles are made from English hide but made cheaply abroad as Kis Vihar described and so not truly "english leather".

I have some cheap leather - got a kincade breastplate which is actually wearing really well, I couldn't stretch to an English one at the time. So I'd say it was excellent value. I've got some continental leather which all seems really good so far - got Albion leathers and a Kieffer bridle. I like Barnsby the best of the English stuff, my standing martingale attachment is Barnsby and it is gorgeous leather and the quality stands out (shame it is on a fairly insignifcant bit of tack )

I covet a Barnsby bridle

 

[mu0ljk]

Laceyfreckle, persevere with ebay. You just have to keep on looking. I got a super 2nd hand kieffer bridle for Dylan and I only paid about £25-£30 for it, It had been really well looked after and was lovely and soft. I also got a 2nd hand Sabre bridle too for Sid for about the same price. They are out there you've just got to be quick off the mark at spotting them! Also, these days I don't think you'll get much off the retail price for a brand new one, so if you see a cheap bridle advertised as english leather and brand new I'd personally steer clear and go for a 2nd hand one that has been lightly used.

Keep at it, you'll find one - infact if you tell me what you're looking for I'll keep my eye open. I quite enjoy looking for bargains on ebay!

 

[unicornleather]

Here are the facts about english leather bridles, I am going to use Heritage bridles as an example and just to confuse you even further, there are TWO Heritage brands!
The first Heritage is good quality saddlery, this heritage was in existance LONG before the second Heritage brand.
The first Heritage is owned and run by Matty Marlow, he makes saddles as well as bridlework like his father before him.
He uses good quailty English leather and all his work is made here in England. It is worth every penny and his standards are on parr with the likes of Kis and Paul,Wally, Chip and myself.
The second Heritage brand is produced in India for a wholesaler in England called Snowhill Trade Saddlery.
Samuel Sharp's English Leather ( is based here in the UK and has no part in making the bridles, he just makes the leather) is exported to India, made into various articles of bridlework and shipped back into England and has a Samuel Sharp label on it to say the leather is English.
Which it is BUT the buckles, hook studs and machining are Indian.
VERY little if any hand work is employed in the making of these bridles, you can now do most jobs by machine and when you mass produce the quality undoubtedly suffers.
Snowhill's Heritage brand only make bridlework, this includes headcollars,martingales etc , they DONT make saddles, only Matty Marlow's Heritage makes those.
The labelling on the snowhill's bridles is very ambiguous and leads to alot of confusion, they have a big silver ENGLAND label on it which makes the retailers and the customers think it is ALL manufactured in England and not just the leather.
I personally think this is a major con and have been actively trying to stop ebayer's on ebay advertising these bridles as"made in england" without success, ebay refuse to stop them and I have been in contact with trading standards and advertising standards., again nothing, so knowing what you know now about snowhill's heritage range of bridlework look at this :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7240082370&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Scroll down and look at the description SEE how they have worded it, none of which it true!
If you read that you would think it is entirely MADE IN ENGLAND and the bridle itself it made by samuel sharp (who makes the leather and nothing else).
And before you say, the retailers are unaware of this fact, THEY do as I and a few others have emailed them to tell them!
SO if all of you want to help save the English saddlery trade then get off the fence and back us all up. Get onto trading standards, get onto ebay as the more people help me and other stop this con the better.
I have no problems with people buying imported saddlery as long as the customer knows where it is made exactly and can then have an informed choice, at the moment it is very misleading.

Oz

 

[Kis Vihar]

Here are the facts about english leather bridles, I am going to use Heritage bridles as an example and just to confuse you even further, there are TWO Heritage brands!
The first Heritage is good quality saddlery, this heritage was in existance LONG before the second Heritage brand.
The first Heritage is owned and run by Matty Marlow, he makes saddles as well as bridlework like his father before him.
He uses good quailty English leather and all his work is made here in England. It is worth every penny and his standards are on parr with the likes of Kis and Paul,Wally, Chip and myself.
The second Heritage brand is produced in India for a wholesaler in England called Snowhill Trade Saddlery.
Samuel Sharp's English Leather ( is based here in the UK and has no part in making the bridles, he just makes the leather) is exported to India, made into various articles of bridlework and shipped back into England and has a Samuel Sharp label on it to say the leather is English.
Which it is BUT the buckles, hook studs and machining are Indian.
VERY little if any hand work is employed in the making of these bridles, you can now do most jobs by machine and when you mass produce the quality undoubtedly suffers.
Snowhill's Heritage brand only make bridlework, this includes headcollars,martingales etc , they DONT make saddles, only Matty Marlow's Heritage makes those.
The labelling on the snowhill's bridles is very ambiguous and leads to alot of confusion, they have a big silver ENGLAND label on it which makes the retailers and the customers think it is ALL manufactured in England and not just the leather.
I personally think this is a major con and have been actively trying to stop ebayer's on ebay advertising these bridles as"made in england" without success, ebay refuse to stop them and I have been in contact with trading standards and advertising standards., again nothing, so knowing what you know now about snowhill's heritage range of bridlework look at this :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7240082370&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Scroll down and look at the description SEE how they have worded it, none of which it true!
If you read that you would think it is entirely MADE IN ENGLAND and the bridle itself it made by samuel sharp (who makes the leather and nothing else).
And before you say, the retailers are unaware of this fact, THEY do as I and a few others have emailed them to tell them!
SO if all of you want to help save the English saddlery trade then get off the fence and back us all up. Get onto trading standards, get onto ebay as the more people help me and other stop this con the better.
I have no problems with people buying imported saddlery as long as the customer knows where it is made exactly and can then have an informed choice, at the moment it is very misleading.

Oz

Well put Oz! You had more time and patience than me in composing that!

I have no problems with people buying imported saddlery as long as the customer knows where it is made exactly and can then have an informed choice, at the moment it is very misleading.

Our views entirely!!!