opinions on stopping giving bute

K

kirt's mam

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Nov 10, 2008
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Northumberland
I'd appreciate some of your thoughts on this one as it's taken me totally by surprise.
My old 16hh TB has been on a low dose of bute for a very long time as a result of a near-fatal injury when he was 9. He is now 21 and has a checkup every 6 months. He has low grade arthritis in his front feet, hips and probably hocks. He currently gets 1 bute a day; until 2 years ago he had one every other day then the vet suggested increasing it to one a day. I ride him lightly and he is a lunatic under saddle. His pain threshold is off the scale - he NEVER tells you that anything hurts, I just have to go over him with a torch to find anything cut or bruised or hanging off or full of pus.
He had his 6 month checkup on Friday, and the vet who came used to see him regulalry but hasn't seen him probably for about 3 years. He was extremely complimentary about him, saying how well he looked and how well he moves, considering all that is going on. I have always assumed that the bute dose would only ever increase, but the vet said that 1 a day is a very low dose for a horse of his size and that it's debateable whether it's actually doing anything for him. The suggestion was that I could think about taking him off the bute completely, but given how long he has been on it, does anyone know of any withdrawal symptoms that might occur? Also, do you think it's a good idea in principle? I know that long term bute is supposed to be bad for them but I would rather he had bute and was comfortable than not. If I took him off it, it would take ages before I knew he was uncomfortable because he just would keep it to himself until it was too painful and then I'd feel really awful.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated?
PS I have to give him the bute mixed in ribena as he won't touch his feed with it in, so if I used one of the herbal alternatives I'd have to do the same with that - he hates anything in his feed.:rolleyes: Do any of those herbal things actually work?
 
You know him best, I have never heard of bute withdrawal.

I'd prefer to use it as I would an Ibuprofen tablet, but if he's one of these who does himself a damage and won't tell you, he might be better with a covering dose.

1 a day for a big guy like that does not sound like a lot, I have given 38" ponies more :)

You can only give it a whirl and see how you go.
 
My horse suffers with navicular and like your's used to be on a daily dose of one sachet of bute a day. Since he went barefoot though, he's been able to gradually have the dosage reduced.

It was first cut to half a sachet for one month, then a quarter for another month, then stopped all together.

He didn't show any signs of withdrawal symptoms, but to be honest, I can't say for certain whether this was because the dosage was cut down in stages or not.
 
I have used ButeX which is Boswellia (frankinsense). It smells really sweet and works really quickly and you can give it forever. Devils Claw if used long term can affect the stomach I think so I wouldnt use that. The ButeX is amazing !! Made by Global Herbs.
 
I've had mixed experiences taking my "long term user" off bute. The first time, she'd been on it every other day for about 6 years (yes, not ideal, I know, but she had various probs) and she started acting like she was drunk - very un-cordinated and unbalanced and her eyes did that awful sunken thing. The second time she came off it (after about 3 years further use) no problems at all!!! Weird. I replaced it with Navilam, which contains hawthorn and devils claw, both natural painkillers, (but as little pony says, long term use of devils claw is also thought to have side effects too). If you do decide to take your neddie off it, I suggest you wait till the weather picks up a bit - my aches and pains always feel worse when it's cold and wet so he might be better kept on it till spring arrives (if it ever does)!
 
For arthritis it is the omega 3 fatty acids you need....this is what reduces inflammation, reduces tenderness in joints, reduces the activity of enzymes that destroy cartilage...and retentions the ligaments

You would need to give allot more of the ground flaxseed to get the same results as the cold compress oil.

Flaxseed oil, but it must be a cold compress oil –
5 mls for Shetland
10 to 15 mls for smaller horses
20 mls for the larger horse

This can be given for 10 to 12 mths or for life.

Comfrey – Shetland - 1 heaped teaspoon in feed 2 times a day
Pony or smaller horse 1 tablespoon in feed 2 times a day.
Large horse - 1 dessertspoon in feed 2 times a day

To be given for no longer than 8 weeks.

For a pain killer you could try Willow Bark...I would suggest you use this only when he is showing pain....the flaxseed oil should make him comfortable.

…give 1 tablespoon 2 time a day or 2 tablespoon once a day in feed…..it is long lasting and slow releasing.

Willow is valued as a nerve sedative because it leaves no depressing after-effects.
It works like aspirin, except that it is mild on the stomach and is natural....so it won't cause internal ulcers like bute can.


The symptoms of ulcers are many and often varied, the thought of ulcers are often overlooked. Horses may have one or several of these signs.

Things to look for:
• Back pain
• Reluctance to move forward under saddle
• Crabbiness when being groomed or tacked up
• General bad temper
• Restlessness
• Stall walking/pacing
• Poor appetite
• Difficulty keeping weight on
• Poor/dull coat
• Unspecific hind end lameness
• Chronic colic
• Grinding teeth
• Cribbing
• Their poo often has a horrid smell and can be green looking.

Causes-
• Grains and sweet feed are major contributors to ulcers, and ulcers can be a major contributor to frequent, mild colic’s.
• Bute

I'm not sying your horse has ulcers...just want you to be aware of the possibilities.

You can use "Slippery Elm" to treat and cure ulcers.
A brown powder, you can get it from a health food shop.
Give 1 Tablespoon in feed each night or morning, for a month…would suggest you add comfrey to this as well…but make the comfrey into a tea bring to the boil cover and allow to steep leave for 8 to 12 hrs…then pour over the feed….1 handful comfrey leaves to a cup of water.

You should be able to get most of these herbs, from your local health food store/shop........Or you may have to find them on the net.

Hope that help you.
 
Thanks for all of this. I think I am going to give it a try but good point KJW about the weather - he is stiffer in the cold and damp so I will wait another few months I think. He has been on it a VERY long time so KJWs point about wobbly mare makes me a bit worried.
i'm also going to call the vet again to talk it through as I was so surprised by what he said that I couldn't think of all the things to ask him.
Pantha, that's all really interesting, but I am now worried about ulcers - I never thought it would be a problem for him as he has always had ad-lib everything. My only concern is with all these remedies, he won't touch his feed with anything suspiscious in it so I'm going to have to dose him with a syringe like I do with the bute. I think he might take oil ok though, he's had soya oil in his feed in the past. Not that that is any indication that he'd have it again.....
thank you everyone, lots to think about it.
And as my friend at my yard said last night, if it doesn't work, you can always start him back on the bute again.
 
Because bute is an anti inflammatory drug, horses don't experience drug tolerance or dependence, these are the things that cause withdrawal symptoms. It's similiar to humans having Neurofen compared to Codeine that can be addictive.

Stopping it shouldn't cause problems of withdrawal but if it has been effective as a painkiller (even in a low dose) then the worse thing that could happen is that he gets pain again.
 
About 3 months ago we started giving Miska bute-x (global herbs) instead of bute. It has worked wonders and Miska seems even better than she was on bute. I would definitly recommend it.
 
If you do need to keep giving it to him Danilon is more palatable and supposedly less prone to causing side effects, if a bit more expensive.
 
helloo ive had my loan horse a year and he came to me on 1 bute aday which i asked the owener if I could possible changed things she said go for it his been on it years,for mild arthuritus.i think we went all summer without needing anything his had one or two blips where his been really funny for a week,i.e abit lame but i dont think thats arthurits more like his been a prat in the field,,,,,i judge it by how he if is looks and movemment,,his a lot happyer of the bute I have used herbal stuff but wasnt that keen but it dont mean it wont work for you,,,Ive also used danilon and walter doesnt seem to respond to that very well i think it upsets his inside but good luck and take each day as it comes if he comes in stiff give him a sachet or half and just see how it goes:D
 
kirt's mam said:
Thanks for all of this. I think I am going to give it a try but good point KJW about the weather - he is stiffer in the cold and damp so I will wait another few months I think. He has been on it a VERY long time so KJWs point about wobbly mare makes me a bit worried.
i'm also going to call the vet again to talk it through as I was so surprised by what he said that I couldn't think of all the things to ask him.
Pantha, that's all really interesting, but I am now worried about ulcers - I never thought it would be a problem for him as he has always had ad-lib everything. My only concern is with all these remedies, he won't touch his feed with anything suspiscious in it so I'm going to have to dose him with a syringe like I do with the bute. I think he might take oil ok though, he's had soya oil in his feed in the past. Not that that is any indication that he'd have it again.....
thank you everyone, lots to think about it.
And as my friend at my yard said last night, if it doesn't work, you can always start him back on the bute again.
Click to expand...

Does your horse eat normally other than when something new is introduced...if he is not eating normally then I would suggest his gut flora is out.....and a Digest Aid is a good idea....pm me I can recommend herbs for that.
 
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