Zak being a monkey.... UPDATE

KP nut

KP nut

I'd rather be riding.
Dec 22, 2008
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I think @Mary Poppins said ponies tested out their new owners after 2-3 months and we have hit our first issue right on cue....

2 weeks ago Zak was in a lesson with one of the twins and they were jumping. After the fence, twin 1 stopped riding in a sort of "phew I'm over" kind of way and Zak dropped his head and she came off. The RI said she didn't think he did it deliberately - it was more an "I'm finished too" move. But it appears he learnt it's a simple way of dropping a rider as he's now done that 3 more times since then which IS clearly deliberate :-(

He tried it once with me on a canter transition and I just rode him forward and he stopped. But 2 other times my other daughter came off and today their friend came off.

Most of the time he is still co operative and willng but this is becoming a habit which I really don't like! The simplest solution might be a daisy rein but why might he be doing this? If he really wanted to dump his rider he could do it any time so why just after jumping or on canter transitions? And even then only 1 in 10 or 20 transitions? I'm getting the saddle fitter out again next week. Teeth have been checked. Any ideas?
 
The other thing that occurs to me is that Zak is being ridden a lot by me and he works from behind into an outline. My RI says he will find this genuinely very hard as his muscle under his neck is built up and he has no core strength of topline. Maybe he is a bit sore or stiff. Maybe his saddle has stopped fitting already. Or maybe he is just grumpy because he didn't sign up for dressage; he's meant to be a kids plod!! But then he's not only dropping his head when working hard. But it IS just in jumping or canter transitions which makes me wonder about soreness. Alternatively it is just learnt behaviour and he needs to unlearn it PDQ.
 
Well it can't hurt to have him checked to see if there is any soreness? He's such a sweetie normally isn't he? But as you say, and MP said - once those hooves are under the table.........o_O:rolleyes:
I hope you find a way through it - I'm sure you will because he does sound such a good sort overall.
 
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If its a head down movement I think its called pig rooting. Mine used to do it in trot when she was tired and it was something she gradually sorted because I let the reins loose for her to stretch her neck and back. I am going back to the six months after backing when she wouldn't have the fitness or muscle.

He could be sore and he could be tired. It depends what he did before to what he is doing now and how many changes you have done etc to way of going and workload.
 
His working week looks like:
Monday: 30 - 45 minute schooling with me
Tuesday: Day off
Wednesday: 30 minute lesson girls plus short hack
Thursday; 20-30 minutes schooling with me in the morning 30-40 minutes 'fun' - girls messing with their friends after school.
Friday: 1 hr hack am. SJ schooling evening
Saturday: 1 hr girls out riding - walk only
Sunday 2x 30 minute lessons , including 1 with me. (Ie hard work for him). Hack out too sometimes.

Max 7 hours per week. Doesn't seem excessive but I have no idea what he was doing before.
 
Hard to say really, it reads as if he is in the school five times a week?
I don't really go by how much I do something but the intensity. I could do half hour of schooling in walk or half hour in trot once warmed up. The second session is more work.
I use the school twice one lunge session, one ridden normally.
 
I do have to say it is a typical pony trick, they learn very quickly how easily small riders can be unseated simply by lowering the head and/or dropping the shoulder slightly - particularly just after a jump, as a novice child may take a stride or two after landing to get back in a more stable / balanced position & the pony senses their vulnerability and knows it's the perfect time to do his thing. Whether he's doing it because he's uncomfortable or out of naughtiness I don't know - but you know him best, and your instinct was right before regarding your saddle and his bucking so I think you're right to rule out physical issues first. He has so many super qualities and it seems to be a bit out of character for him to be doing something like this just for fun! On the other hand, you say he tried it with you but stopped after you rode through it. Being stronger than the girls, maybe you got away with it because you were able to get his head up and ride him on and he knew it wasn't worth trying again. If it was something he was doing to express or relieve discomfort I'd expect him to have tried it again or looked for a different way to make his point - especially since, being heavier than the girls, his discomfort would logically be worse with you on board rather than better. I don't think the answer is clear really! (sorry this is no help!).
 
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Can it not be a balance issue too? I don't really know just thought that Ale used to do something similar and my RI said he was stretching head down to balance himself, he doesn't do it now
 
juliecwuk said:
Does he need to be schooled by you? I've never really felt keen on riding horses twice a day tbh but not sure if that's because Im soft!
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He's going so much better (apart from the head dropping obviously!) since I've been schooling him. He is far more responsive and he's learning to carry himself better which might be hard for him now but will help in the long run. So yes I'd like to carry on. Plus I love it!

He's ridden twice some days because I can get the school early in the morning and then the girls ride after school. I did feel guilty and then I told myself to man up! All RS or trekking ponies ride more than once. Plus horses at comps warm up then ride different classes. At pony club camp or training clinics you ride several times etc. So I figured he'd survive!!
 
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newforest said:
Hard to say really, it reads as if he is in the school five times a week?
I don't really go by how much I do something but the intensity. I could do half hour of schooling in walk or half hour in trot once warmed up. The second session is more work.
I use the school twice one lunge session, one ridden normally.
Click to expand...

I would say he is intensely schooled (30 minutes trot or canter working from behind) twice a week. The other session with me is mostly walk learning things like turn on the forehand/haunches, backing up.

When the girls are riding they don't do a lot really. Certainly no intensity. Then his hacking is almost all in walk (plus the 2 cheeky logs) whether with me or the girls because they lack confidence outdoors so I'm teaching him that outdoors = walk.
 
Ale said:
Can it not be a balance issue too? I don't really know just thought that Ale used to do something similar and my RI said he was stretching head down to balance himself, he doesn't do it now
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Yes maybe. I've noticed him tripping more these past 2 weeks too.... But sometimes he feels very neat and balanced. But the tripping is new too so it coincides with the head dropping. So definitely worth exploring.

Anyone have ideas about tripping? The farrier is looking at him again soon.
 
@joosie thanks for detailed reply. I was initially very frustrated because I did assume it was a naughty trick to deliberately unseat them. But that is so out of character as he has always looked after his riders so well. So my instinct is there is a problem somewhere. Especially with the tripping too.
 
Tripping is often foot related, perhaps he's just growing more foot because of the time of year and will need a shorter cycle in the spring/summer.
 
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How old is he again KP nut?
Tripping along with the other details you have provided would lean me towards thinking there's a possible problem rather than naughtiness in itself. Not necessarily a huge problem, maybe fatigue for example if his workload is not what it was before?
I'm always eyes wide open as soon as tripping is mentioned but only because of bad experiences with our two and navicular. Something which is apparently very rare in ponies so no need to worry there! Hence my next one is a pony too!
No help really just thinking out loud:rolleyes:
 
He's 11.
RI says stick a daisy rein on him. I am willing to believe it is simply learned naughty-pony behaviour and and the rein is a good option when littlies are on him.
But I want to give him the benefit of the doubt first and rule out a physical or balance issue. If he can't balance himself or is uncomfortable I don't want to just physically prevent him expressing himself.
 
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It depends how quickly a horse actually learns something. I know when mine yanked me out of the saddle pulling her back up wasn't an option. She is a hefty lass. So I began to just slip the rein if she did it, she didn't gain anything from it and I believed she was stretching as she did the same on the lunge.
Does he do it lunged over jumps, no rider?

A daisy reins doesn't address the why. I wouldn't want that on for jumping. If there is an issue he may start bucking as that end won't be restricted.
 
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