Dry cough

[Jessey]

Stuff them @Mary Poppins, they have not done a clinical examination of your horse and even if they think they have they are not qualified to diagnose anything! irritation of the airway tissue due to an allergy is quite different to a bit of mucus in the airways and requires different treatment, I am sure your vet listened to his lungs and deemed there to be little/no mucus to clear or she would have told you about it.
And re his weight, I think you are dead right to be following your vets advice, too many people think what is actually a fat horse is normal or 'has good topline' and they don't understand why we want them thinner, I've had it a lot with Jess and Quarter Horse people, because the breed is heavy set and heavily muscled people seem to think being 'chunky' is the same thing and I often get comments about how I keep Jess too thin, but IMO she is still a little on the porky side, so remains on her permanent diet.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Thanks @Jessey The vet did do a proper investigation, she listened to his lungs and chest, asked me lots of questions and we talked it through. The yard were saying that I should have ridden him to show her how bad the cough was, but neither myself or the vet thought this necessary because she was not planning on medicating him, only offering advice on his management at this stage. If he doesn't improve over the next month she will come out again and we will reassess, but it has only been 2 weeks of coughing which isn't long in the whole swing of things. She said he could take up to 3 months to recover completely, which the yard also told me was total rubbish.

With his weight, the vet very firmly told me that his crest was fat, and quite a bit of it. She said that the crest is the biggest warning signal for laminitis and it is of upmost importance that it goes. She also pointed out his fat pad on his shoulder (which are very obvious), and said that while she could feel his ribs if she pressed hard, his ribs should be very easily to feel with a light touch. The yard staff all had a big analysis of him once the vet had gone and told me his crest is firm muscle, his ribs are fine to the touch and he doesn't need to lose any weight at all because his type (shire) is supposed to look like that. You really couldn't get two more conflicting viewpoints. I know I am right and will stand by ground, but it is hard. I know they care about him and me but it is really upsetting to know that they don't support my decisions and are probably talking about us behind my back.

 

[Kite_Rider]

Thanks @Jessey The vet did do a proper investigation, she listened to his lungs and chest, asked me lots of questions and we talked it through. The yard were saying that I should have ridden him to show her how bad the cough was, but neither myself or the vet thought this necessary because she was not planning on medicating him, only offering advice on his management at this stage. If he doesn't improve over the next month she will come out again and we will reassess, but it has only been 2 weeks of coughing which isn't long in the whole swing of things. She said he could take up to 3 months to recover completely, which the yard also told me was total rubbish.

With his weight, the vet very firmly told me that his crest was fat, and quite a bit of it. She said that the crest is the biggest warning signal for laminitis and it is of upmost importance that it goes. She also pointed out his fat pad on his shoulder (which are very obvious), and said that while she could feel his ribs if she pressed hard, his ribs should be very easily to feel with a light touch. The yard staff all had a big analysis of him once the vet had gone and told me his crest is firm muscle, his ribs are fine to the touch and he doesn't need to lose any weight at all because his type (shire) is supposed to look like that. You really couldn't get two more conflicting viewpoints. I know I am right and will stand by ground, but it is hard. I know they care about him and me but it is really upsetting to know that they don't support my decisions and are probably talking about us behind my back.

So sorry that you are having all this trouble MP, you are quite right to listen to your vet, after all as Jessey pointed out the vet is medically qualified and has spent years training to do exactly that, the yard staff however well meaning are not.
I have long since learned to just get on with vets advice and get on with managing Belle in the best way that works for us (vets advice) oddly enough my horse is only one of two horses on my yard who haven't gone down with lammi this year, but most still think my management is wrong, incidentally the other horse who hasn't had lammi is managed exactly the same as Belle.
So when your yard comment on how you should change vets/listen to them and not your vet you have to get tough, be polite as Im sure you are and tell them that when they have trained for years and are medically qualified to asses Ben then maybe you'll take their advice, but for now you are going to listen to your vet.
Im sorry Ben isn't well and I hope he has a speedy recovery, until then stay strong, keep smiling and know you are doing the best for him. Lots of healing vibes coming your way for Ben.

 

[Trewsers]

Sorry to hear fellow liveries are not being very helpful. If you feel your vets advice is right, and you have a good trust in them, then you must follow what they say. I have always believed my vet to know what is best - sometimes well meaning folk are just that: well meaning but not properly informed. Afterall,as OH always points out, vets have spent a considerable amount of time training, so you would like to think they are the better people to follow the advice of.
I hope he is back to normal soon. I personally would not be pushing him on too much if the vet feels walk is the better pace for his cough.

 

[Mary Poppins]

So sorry that you are having all this trouble MP, you are quite right to listen to your vet, after all as Jessey pointed out the vet is medically qualified and has spent years training to do exactly that, the yard staff however well meaning are not.
I have long since learned to just get on with vets advice and get on with managing Belle in the best way that works for us (vets advice) oddly enough my horse is only one of two horses on my yard who haven't gone down with lammi this year, but most still think my management is wrong, incidentally the other horse who hasn't had lammi is managed exactly the same as Belle.
So when your yard comment on how you should change vets/listen to them and not your vet you have to get tough, be polite as Im sure you are and tell them that when they have trained for years and are medically qualified to asses Ben then maybe you'll take their advice, but for now you are going to listen to your vet.
Im sorry Ben isn't well and I hope he has a speedy recovery, until then stay strong, keep smiling and know you are doing the best for him. Lots of healing vibes coming your way for Ben.

Thank you for your kind words. I have been so emotional about this all. The vet said that horses were coming in with laminitis everyday at the moment because the weather has been so warm and damp, and that the grass has more sugar in it than spring time. People are starting to up feeds and turnout in rested winter paddocks (as our yard has just done) and because it is November everything thinks it is OK. She said that laminitis was more serious in heavy horses simply because of the weight their feet have to hold.

None of the horses on my yard have ever had laminitis, but the vast majority are only turned out for between 4 and 6 hours per day. There are 2 other ponies who are on 24 hour turnout (and who are rather round in my opinion) but because it hasn't happened to them, they think it won't happen to my horse either.

I am trying to be tough and polite, but I just cry instead because the whole situation is so frustrating and all I want is what is best for Ben. I need to man up and refuse to discuss it. But that is hard as well, because it is hard NOT to talk about horses when you are at the yard!!

 

[Mary Poppins]

Sorry to hear fellow liveries are not being very helpful. If you feel your vets advice is right, and you have a good trust in them, then you must follow what they say. I have always believed my vet to know what is best - sometimes well meaning folk are just that: well meaning but not properly informed. Afterall,as OH always points out, vets have spent a considerable amount of time training, so you would like to think they are the better people to follow the advice of.
I hope he is back to normal soon. I personally would not be pushing him on too much if the vet feels walk is the better pace for his cough.

Thank you. I am just ambling around on him for the time being. We did some trot yesterday but he coughed so I stopped. I feel guilty for pushing him on last week as it didn't feel right to me, and in future I will trust my own instincts more and follow my own gut feeling. Gut feeling is almost always the right thing to do. I so hope he gets better soon.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

Poor chap, it must be very distressing for a horse to cough, all that length of throat to be sore!

I think the yard staff should leave you alone. "Canter him hard and clear his lungs" my foot!

 

[Mary Poppins]

Poor chap, it must be very distressing for a horse to cough, all that length of throat to be sore!

I think the yard staff should leave you alone. "Canter him hard and clear his lungs" my foot!

Thank you. I won't see anyone till Friday now as I am working today and tomorrow so hopefully it will have all blown over by then. It is distressing when he coughs, it is not nice for him at all and I can feel him straining his whole body. I won't push him to do anything he is not ready for, if it takes 3 months then it takes 3 months. While I enjoy competing and lessons etc. it all falls into insignificance when his health is in question. All of a sudden my desire to compete and take him out has gone, I just want to nurse him back to health.

 

[KP nut]

Agree with all the others. Vets give SPECIFIC advice on SPECIFIC horses they are treating. Yard staff are spouting general advice on managing general coughs. No comparison in credibility and usefulness of the advice and no question on who to listen to. So hard though it is. I do think you just need to stay non-defensive and say thanks for the advice, but I am going with the vet's recommendations. And then don't worry about it. (Easier said than done). I had a similar situation with my farrier who told me my vet was talking a load of rubbish when he said Oscar's feet did not need re-secting and I was storing up far more problems down the line. I just nodded along and said well maybe I am doing the wrong thing but I have decided to follow my vet's advice on this one. And then just repeated that a few times in various different ways when he kept telling me what a mistake I was making.

As for weight, can't you tell them he has probable EMS and he is at high risk and therefore needs to be kept at optimum weight or even lean? It does not matter what might be ok for other horses, you need to focus on what is right for him.

 

[Mary Poppins]

As for weight, can't you tell them he has probable EMS and he is at high risk and therefore needs to be kept at optimum weight or even lean? It does not matter what might be ok for other horses, you need to focus on what is right for him.

The problem is that Ben is not the fattest yard on the yard at all, far from it. There really are some fat horses there, one is completely obese and while everyone does agree that horse needs to drop weight, the owner never does anything about it. In my discussions about his weight Ben always gets compared to the really fat horse with the attitude that I should be happy that my horse is not as fat as that one. But just because other people are happy to have fat horses, it doesn't make me wrong to strive to have a horse at the perfect weight.

I know that Ben has lost lots of weight and everyone knows that I am obsessed by his weight and I know that they are just trying to be kind and make me feel better. But if the vet says he is too fat, then he is too fat. It doesn't matter if he is the slimmest he has ever been and it doesn't matter if I am already working hard to keep his weight down. If it vets says he needs to drop more then that is what needs to happen. When I mention EMS, they all say I am talking rubbish. I don't think that many people actually know what it is.

 

[KP nut]

There are some hugely overweight horses on our yard too. I am also told 'well look at....' when I say Oscar is too fat! And he isn't even too bad according to my vet. No crest, no fat pads. Just a bit too much of an all over covering but that is still more than I want him to have. I keep being told my dog is too thin. But my vet says she is perfect. You are MEANT to be able to feel dogs ribs easily. I think we have all become so used to horses, dogs (and kids!) being overweight that ideal weight now looks too thin and overweight looks normal. Your horse, your choice though.

 

[Mary Poppins]

There are some hugely overweight horses on our yard too. I am also told 'well look at....' when I say Oscar is too fat! And he isn't even too bad according to my vet. No crest, no fat pads. Just a bit too much of an all over covering but that is still more than I want him to have. I keep being told my dog is too thin. But my vet says she is perfect. You are MEANT to be able to feel dogs ribs easily. I think we have all become so used to horses, dogs (and kids!) being overweight that ideal weight now looks too thin and overweight looks normal. Your horse, your choice though.

I think that is true. People see fat and they think it is healthy because it is normal. I love all the NR support today - thank you everyone. You have all given me confidence that I am not completely mad and I will stick to my guns.

 

[MrA]

Ben is lucky to have you, you sound like a great owner so you should feel confident in yourself and your decisions. I hope he is coughing less soon.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Ben is lucky to have you, you sound like a great owner so you should feel confident in yourself and your decisions. I hope he is coughing less soon.

Thank you. I rode him in the school for 25 mins last night in walk with very short bursts of trot and he coughed twice which is a huge improvement on last week. Am feeling abit less upset now, haven't cried for 24 hours now!

 

[domane]

Just catching up with this. Sorry you have been through hell with your yard folk but I'm REALLY glad that Ben seems to be responding to the regime - that's fab news and you can feel a bit smug towards all those doubters.

 

[popularfurball]

MP I don't mean it to dampen you, but to reassure you -the vet is right about the time span for recovery. Allergies only subside when the stimulus is not there, and the longer the stimulus is there for the more difficult it is to clear the symptoms.

Madam is horrendous with dust, and being out 24/7 is the only way to really clear it totally for her. Feeding from the floor (but not using a hay manger or bucket it has to be loose) was the single biggest improving factor for her.

If you have the opportunity to ride in your fields I would take that too due to the surface in the school kicking up.

As a last thing, tuneric is a wonderful (and cheap) anti inflammatory and has helped madam with everything from her itching to her cough to her old lady joints. It's a subtle and cumulative effect, but four days without it and the difference is notable. She eats it happily with something like halleys chop - which is plain chopped hay (nothing else added at all so you wouldn't be adding to his calorie intake).

 

[Mary Poppins]

Just catching up with this. Sorry you have been through hell with your yard folk but I'm REALLY glad that Ben seems to be responding to the regime - that's fab news and you can feel a bit smug towards all those doubters.

Thank you. I just want to move him into our own field away from everyone else. The thing is that I do know a few yards that offer turnout in pairs with your own field to do what you want with. To do that and have complete control I would need to get another horse, but the combined livery for two there would be cheaper than what I pay now. It's food for thought....

 

[Mary Poppins]

MP I don't mean it to dampen you, but to reassure you -the vet is right about the time span for recovery. Allergies only subside when the stimulus is not there, and the longer the stimulus is there for the more difficult it is to clear the symptoms.

Madam is horrendous with dust, and being out 24/7 is the only way to really clear it totally for her. Feeding from the floor (but not using a hay manger or bucket it has to be loose) was the single biggest improving factor for her.

If you have the opportunity to ride in your fields I would take that too due to the surface in the school kicking up.

As a last thing, tuneric is a wonderful (and cheap) anti inflammatory and has helped madam with everything from her itching to her cough to her old lady joints. It's a subtle and cumulative effect, but four days without it and the difference is notable. She eats it happily with something like halleys chop - which is plain chopped hay (nothing else added at all so you wouldn't be adding to his calorie intake).

He does need to come in everyday so he gets off the grass, but his stable is now completely clear with just mats and a handful of shavings to soak up wee. I have got rid of the haynets and all his hay is soaked for 2 hours and fed from the floor.

Luckily our arena is not dusty at all, it is made up from old carpets I think, but it isn't a sand school so doesn't kick up any dust. I have been riding out as much as possible, but with the dark nights that is getting harder to do.

I don't know much about turmeric but I will look into it. There was a bit of a craze about it a few years ago with people claiming it helped with everything which put me off abit, but if you have found it has helped I will go and look into it. Thank you. x

 

[popularfurball]

Sorry I wasn't saying not to bring him in - just that being out is the only way we have shaken it - and even in summer when we have a dry spell it reappears as she is pretty severe. It sounds like you are on the right track, you will probably find you can got back to straw bed once the symptoms subside - knowing that the straw hasn't previously triggered it, but when an episode is live so to speak you are right to avoid it altogether xx

 

[Mary Poppins]

Sorry I wasn't saying not to bring him in - just that being out is the only way we have shaken it - and even in summer when we have a dry spell it reappears as she is pretty severe. It sounds like you are on the right track, you will probably find you can got back to straw bed once the symptoms subside - knowing that the straw hasn't previously triggered it, but when an episode is live so to speak you are right to avoid it altogether xx

I think that I will keep him off the straw bed if I can. It has got to help with his weight management as he did used to enjoy eating the fresh straw!