4 x 4 help!!

[eventerbabe]

please read BlueWicked's sticky thread on this. I have to agree with nookster, it depends on how much you value your horses lives. Yes, you could humpf around a trailer with a freelander or x-trail but no, it would not be safe nor legal.

You need to look at the maximum laiden weight of your trailer, which will be on a plate on the chassis. the 510 is the bigger of the two with a max laiden weight of 2700kg. your tow vehicle MUST be able to pull that weight, whether you have the box full or NOT. the x-trail and freelander just do not cut the mustard. even the brand new freelander has a MAXIMUM towing weight of 2000kg, nowhere near the max laiden weight of a 510. the x-trail varies from 1350-2000kg, again really not up to the job and illegal with the trailer you want to tow. i suggest you have a look at the sorrento, terracan, landy defenders/discos, nissan terrano etc. the proper, beefy tow vehicles that all have a 3500kg tow capacity.

Do remember, towing with an underpowered vehicle will put tremendous strain on it, and your maintenance costs will be big. something like a sorrento isn't in the highest tax banding, fuel seems not too bad and with a decent warranty behind them they are worth looking at. and you'll EASILY find one for £6k

 

[MaisieMoo]

As I understand it you can get the trailer plate derated which, if I buy and Ifor would be what I'd do that way you'd be legal.

I think this simply involves changing the plating on the trailer but the trailer capacity does not change??

 

[Nookster]

As I understand it you can get the trailer plate derated which, if I buy and Ifor would be what I'd do that way you'd be legal.

I think this simply involves changing the plating on the trailer but the trailer capacity does not change??

Yep you can derate but there are legalities around that also which I would look into have been reading up and not as simple as it looks I’m afraid.

Yep the MAM on the plate would change so say an ifor 505 is originally MAM 2600 – you would be illegal to tow with freelander or xtrail and would also need a tow licence as the combination would be 4600kg over the 3500 rule

But for instance you are only want to carry one horse say 600kg (to cover any variation) and its unladen weight is 920kg so equal 1520kg – I would then again want to add bit extra to cover anything extra u need to carry – be water, tack, hay. So you could get it derated to say 1900kg.

Now if you take those two figures in with a freelander or xtrail with their MAM of 2000kg – then yes with the trailer now being 1900kg you would be legal as the trailer doesn’t exceed the vehicle. BUT you still need a tow licence as the combined equals 3900kg. Even if you took it at the lesser weight 1520kg you would still be over – even if it is a slight margin they will still fine you. Fine is classed as driving without the correct licence – so massive fine and penalties.

It’s a hard one to way up but can see you views as I was in the same position at one point. I find if you do try to do it you way remember that you don’t have the extra grunt so to say to over power the trailer as both will literally be equals. They can lead to some tricky situations I’m afraid. I travel most weekends – mainly with one but now with two – have 3500 vehicle and trailer of a MAM 2700kg and there are times it feels ruddy unsafe and I even go the extra mile with two stabilisers. All it takes is, icy, windy day, passing lorries etc, a corner that isn’t as expected, hill you didn’t expect to be as steep. You name it, I find tailoring a whole different ball game to normal driving. Why I just opted to save and do my test.

Not trying to scare anyone and defiantly not trying to stop them getting out and about, just wanting you to be safer for yourself and your horses as the accident I experienced I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

 

[Sticky's GF]

If you have a large horse and heavy trailer AND want fuel economny what about getting an lpg converted big petrol car like a grand cherokee? This will be my next vehicle!

I have towed 1 x large horse with a freelander before but I had a super light weight trailer only about 750kg and that was fine, but an ifor 510 (which is what I have now) is over a ton unladen.

 

[clurly_wurly]

I recently just changed my car as i needed something to tow with and was having the same dilemma as you about whether to get an X-Trail or Freelander. I needed a smallish jeep (im 21 so the price of insurance really limited my choice). I was told by a number of people to avoid the Freelander as they can be a bit temperamental (the older models anyway, not too sure what the newest version is like) so in the end decided to go with the X-Trail.


Im happy with my decision on the Xtrail, i think mine is a 2.2 diesel, and it tows my Ifor 505 legally and with no problem, and for a jeep its easy enough on the fuel. Although like has been mentioned, im not sure if it would legally tow a 510, but i found www.whatcar.co.uk really useful as you can compare different jeeps and find out the spec/towing weights etc.

 

[BlueWicked]

i dont normally get involved now with towing debates -i said my tuppenceworth and its now up as a sticky for all to read

however... just wanted to add to this... my van can tow up to 2000kg, so i had my 505 derated to 2000kg. Means that to be within the trailer's load capacity I can only tow 1 horse... but that is legal. You will still need to pass your towing test, which my hubby did, and until i do mine, he's the driver

However! . vehicles that have a lower towing capactiy (like mine) tend to have a lower kerbweight. It is only a RECOMMENDATION, NOT LAW, to not tow over 85% of this, but for safetys sake, as nookster says, I would try and stick to if poss. Im in the process of changing my vehicle and am going for a 4x4 pickup.

 

[Nookster]

If tow capacity of xtrail is 2200kg and ifor 505 MAM is 2500kg, 2600kg depending on new or old model then that’s not legal I’m afraid as the MAM of the trailer exceeds the MAM of the vehicle

 

[MaisieMoo]

Thanks Nookster - does anyone know though what actually happens when the plate is derated - is it simply a case that the official MAM is changed to say 2000kg but nothing in the trailor itself is actually changed?

Oh antd I won't be towing it - I've roped my my dad for that job!

 

[BlueWicked]

Thanks Nookster - does anyone know though what actually happens when the plate is derated - is it simply a case that the official MAM is changed to say 2000kg but nothing in the trailor itself is actually changed?

Oh antd I won't be towing it - I've roped my my dad for that job!

thats exactly right, go to an ifor centre and they wll take the plate off your trailer and send it away to ifr willims, it takes abut a week for them to send it back with new figure on it

 

[Nookster]

However! . vehicles that have a lower towing capactiy (like mine) tend to have a lower kerbweight. It is only a RECOMMENDATION, NOT LAW, to not tow over 85% of this, but for safetys sake, as nookster says, I would try and stick to if poss. Im in the process of changing my vehicle and am going for a 4x4 pickup.

Out of interest BW the recommendation they give doesn’t it (in my eyes) conflict against the legal rule of vehicle MAM = trailer MAM? Or am I confused?

 

[Nookster]

Thanks Nookster - does anyone know though what actually happens when the plate is derated - is it simply a case that the official MAM is changed to say 2000kg but nothing in the trailor itself is actually changed?

As BW says - plate goes and comes back - then up to you not to overload even tho the trailer can still physically take the weight. But you can always reverse the de plating when needed in future too.

 

[MaisieMoo]

As BW says - plate goes and comes back - then up to you not to overload even tho the trailer can still physically take the weight. But you can always reverse the de plating when needed in future too.

If that's the case it seems a bit rediculous TBH - nothing physically changes with the trailer but you are now legal to tow it just because the weight limit note on the plate has been changed!!!

 

[Nookster]

If that's the case it seems a bit rediculous TBH - nothing physically changes with the trailer but you are now legal to tow it just because the weight limit note on the plate has been changed!!!

Its because the trailers actual weight doesn’t change. SO say a ifor 505 – its unladen weight is 920kg so with nothing on that’s really the weight you are towing.

But then you have what it can physically carry and that Maximum is 2600kg so 2600 – 920 – gives you 1680kg of extra to weight to play with and put on in regards of horses and other items. It is only this weight that you are changing. So really you are just making an agreement to reduce what it can carry. You are agreeing to carry less and legally tying yourself into that if that makes sense?

 

[Trewsers]

Defender all the way! Tho be careful as the tax on the one with seats in the back is a fortune, if you can get away with two seats and go for the Defender Hardtop then the tax isn't so bad. They do what they say on the tin!!!!!!!

 

[BlueWicked]

Out of interest BW the recommendation they give doesn’t it (in my eyes) conflict against the legal rule of vehicle MAM = trailer MAM? Or am I confused?

yes, you're right. But the legal aspect is a maximum, and its always best not to push things to their maximum imho, as in - the law states you must wear a riding hat on the road.. but common sense dictates its a good recommendation to wear one all the time when riding. Does that make sense?

 

[Nookster]

yes, you're right. But the legal aspect is a maximum, and its always best not to push things to their maximum imho, as in - the law states you must wear a riding hat on the road.. but common sense dictates its a good recommendation to wear one all the time when riding. Does that make sense?

nope totally agree, as always be legal, but most of all just be safe

 

[xJenniferx]

I am currently having this dilemma as I want a (Listen to the 'want there, and my father always told me 'I want doesnt get lol') Ifor Williams 510 with the ability to to two large horses.

The X-trail and the freelander just arent going to do it.

Go with the bes car you can afford. Discovery's, Defenders and Shoguns seem to be the best. I did get caught hoever when I cmpared various models of the same car. eg. Sorento, one mondel pulls 3.5T the other 2t.

Same with Xtrail. Freelander etc.

Discoverys always seem to be the safest option (unless you go al out with a defender)

 

[Gimp]

I dont think you can go wrong with a Discovery, Range Rover or Landrover. With your budget you should pick up a good one.

 

[appaloosamare]

hey

for what it's worth I have a ford ranger and it pulls 2 heavies in a 510 no problem .... just glad I have my heavy goods licence because I get so confused with the legalities of towing with truck and trailer.....and weightings....but I know its legal towing weight is 2,800kg.