A difficult subject re PTS

I think that for those of us who have lost horses, or are at the moment caring for sick animals, this subject, whilst extremely helpful and informative, needs to handled with respect for others feelings, and for some, the image of their loved one being fed to hounds goes beyond the pale.Dealing with loss, or the prospect of it, is a very personal issue.If thats your wish, all well and good, but please don't berate those who find it offensive.
 
But most people seem to forget (or don't know, esp. the foreign riders on here) that bury your horse is actually illegal in most parts of the country
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Like many legal issues, it's not that black and white.

It can be up to the decision of your local Trading Standards Officer; if the horses were by definition pets at home and not stock on a farm, not kept for the purposes of meat production. Burial must be more than 14m from a waterway, of a minimum depth, etc etc.

Though this isn't an option to many any more.
 
relaxants?

Do vets ever give a horse a relaxant first, similar to what they give when they float a horse's teeth? It seems if a horse is very relaxed, the lethal injection process would go better. I know this is often done for dogs at the owner's request...
 
I haven't read all the responses, but I'm answereing the original poster.

I would have my horse pts by injection. There is absolutely no need for it to be anything other than stress free for the horse. What should happen, is that the horse would be sedated (and therefore completely unconcious and unaware), before being given a lethal injection to kill it (i.e stop the heart). The down side to this for the horse owner is that the last stage, of the heart stopping, can take some time, then some further time for breathing to stop, together with some "involuntary" muscle movements (which might be construed as the horse feeling something).
But you have to realise that the horse has first of all been sedated (asleep and unaware), and from that point on knows nothing and can feel nothing.

I have been with horses who have been pts by injection by the vet and it was very peaceful. The horse slipped into unconciousness quietly, whilst being stroked by its owner. The owner then chose to leave the stable whilst the final lethal dose was given.

I have no first hand experience of shooting a horse to put it to sleep.
Whilst I favour injection; if my horse was very seriously injured and in a tremendous amount of pain and suffering and moving him either wasn't an option or too traumatic, I would choose a quick death with a gun to put him out of his suffering. Hope I never ever have to do this though................. :(

I would want the vet to take and dispose of his carcass. Although I would also consider cremation (but hadn't appreciated the costs until I read it on here).
 
Harvey99 said:
I haven't read all the responses, but I'm answereing the original poster.

I would have my horse pts by injection. There is absolutely no need for it to be anything other than stress free for the horse. What should happen, is that the horse would be sedated (and therefore completely unconcious and unaware), before being given a lethal injection to kill it (i.e stop the heart). The down side to this for the horse owner is that the last stage, of the heart stopping, can take some time, then some further time for breathing to stop, together with some "involuntary" muscle movements (which might be construed as the horse feeling something).
But you have to realise that the horse has first of all been sedated (asleep and unaware), and from that point on knows nothing and can feel nothing.

I have been with horses who have been pts by injection by the vet and it was very peaceful. The horse slipped into unconciousness quietly, whilst being stroked by its owner. The owner then chose to leave the stable whilst the final lethal dose was given.

I have no first hand experience of shooting a horse to put it to sleep.
Whilst I favour injection; if my horse was very seriously injured and in a tremendous amount of pain and suffering and moving him either wasn't an option or too traumatic, I would choose a quick death with a gun to put him out of his suffering. Hope I never ever have to do this though................. :(

I would want the vet to take and dispose of his carcass. Although I would also consider cremation (but hadn't appreciated the costs until I read it on here).
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Thats what I hoped - initial sedation etc. You said that you didn't read all the posts, further down, it became apparant that cremation is generally under £200.
 
Thanks Stella2. In that case I might opt for cremation. Not sure what my insurance covers though - should really go and check.

Have had a quick flick through the posts and have seen a few comments about horses/animals (even humans!) "fighting" sedative injections. This should never happen, and there is no reason for it all all. Sometimes I think the lack of a decent muscle relaxant makes it appear as if someone/animal is "fighting" the sedation, but it's just muscle tone. I give general anaesthetics and after sedating someone, if I do not give enough muscle relaxant then the person will cough when I try to put a tube down their throat (then I give a bit more muscle relaxant :o ). But for the comfort of the patient (animal or human) the sedation is the most important - makes them unconcious and unaware. Far far worse is insufficient sedation and plenty of muscle relaxant. Then the animal/human is unable to move any muscle at all, but is still aware/awake.
So, as long as the horse is well sedated, any "fighting" of the injection that people are seeing I would suggest is involuntary and the horse is completely unaware. It just doesn't look nice for us if we don't understand the procedure.

Probably the most important thing is to have a kind and compassionate person whom you trust, to dispatch your horse and who deals with it sensitively and with care.
It's heartening to read that most of you have had good experiences of what is an awful time.
 
Harvey - could you tell me, is the lethal injection simply a high dose of the sedative usually used for minor procedures in horses? If not, what is used? and do you recommend something else is administered first? I really want to understand this before I'm in the situation!
 
Gosh Stella2, I don't really know. You'd need to ask a veterinary surgeon for precisely what they give.

But, I believe that for a start, the sedation they give to carry out minor procedures on the horse standing, is a different cocktail of drugs to the ones they will give for a general (i.e lying down) anaesthetic. In the first instance they would give some sort of drug like a phenothiazin, combined with other drugs such as opioids.
However, it would be the cocktail of drugs used for a general anaesthetic, that would be given to a horse before being put to sleep. For this they would give something as a pre-med (or pre anaestheic medication), then similar sedative drugs to those given to humans (such as thiopental or ketamine I believe). As far as I know the horse is then given a lethal dose of a barbiturate anaesthetic (thiopental again maybe?). I do not know whether a vet would give a muscle relaxant or not routinely. I also have no idea what cocktail of drugs any individual vet would give (some are far more costly than others and some vets simply don't use certaiin drugs as part of their repertoire). As far as I know ketamine is the sedative of choice for vets at the moment.

Pinks Lady would be able to tell you more (and say whether I am talking out of my bottom or not :p ). There's another qualified vet on this board too isn't there, but can't recall their name.
It would be interesting to hear how they deal with putting horses to sleep by injection and what their practice is.

For my horse, I would want a pre-med, then sedation with something similar to ketamine, then an overdose of ketamine. I wouldn't be too bothered about a muscle relaxant if the vet didn't want to give one.

Gosh, this is a sad but important thread. It has really made me think.
 
Iv never been involved in putting horses to sleep, as a student vet nurse i tended to stay in the practice (unless the vet feels he needs help) but when it comes to putting other animals to sleep they get sedated with the drug they usually get as if they were being spayed or any other op. Then when they are very sleepy they are given an OD of this blue drug, which i just cant think of the name right now. The drug used is different in every vets. I just called it the blue drug.....As you say Pinks Lady can give more info as iv been away on a research trip all week and then went to the gym so my brain is fried!!

Every euthanasia i have attended too has been different. Each animal had reacted differently, some fought it but the majorit slipped away. There will always be some upsetting htings to see when an animal gets put to sleep. An animals insticnt is to live so they will fight it. I would choose injection, only because thats what i know and have wored with so feel comfortable with it. Owners can be there and hold their animal at the end.

Edit to add - some vets iv been to dont use a sedative, they just give the overdose. Depends on attitude of animal.
 
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Vet warned me when he put Santa to sleep by injection to stand back a bit as she might suddenly rock backwards and in some cases rear up a little. He said not to be alarmed as this was purely a reflex action of the muscles. She started backwards before quietly going down on the soft grass, where she lay for a few moments unconcious before silently passing away, whilst OH and I stroked and talked to her. She did not fight it, she was eating carrots just before and quite calm. My vet said this was his preferred method, a gentle and humane man, I believed him.
 
colettybetty said:
Vet warned me when he put Santa to sleep by injection to stand back a bit as she might suddenly rock backwards and in some cases rear up a little. He said not to be alarmed as this was purely a reflex action of the muscles. She started backwards before quietly going down on the soft grass, where she lay for a few moments unconcious before silently passing away, whilst OH and I stroked and talked to her. She did not fight it, she was eating carrots just before and quite calm. My vet said this was his preferred method, a gentle and humane man, I believed him.
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I was with my friend when her horse was pts by injection. The vet explained exactly the same thing to us regarding the possible reflex actions. The horse rocked a little before going down, my friend then sat next to him, gently stroking his neck and singing quietly as he passed away. It was all very dignified and stress free for the horse.
 
india said:
I was with my friend when her horse was pts by injection. The vet explained exactly the same thing to us regarding the possible reflex actions. The horse rocked a little before going down, my friend then sat next to him, gently stroking his neck and singing quietly as he passed away. It was all very dignified and stress free for the horse.
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Sniff...I couldn't even watch my rabbit be put to sleep, I don't think I could deal with it if I had to watch Bry go.
 
Yeah the spasms arnt very nice to watch. You think they are still alive but its just relfex. The last breath isnt very nice either. There is a word for it but cant remember. Is like their soul is being breathed out! Iv seen it enough to be able to distance myself. Need to other wise it can get upsetting. Its worse when the owners are around as you sense their upset so sets you off.
 
I will let my vet's practise help me sort my feelings about my animals about this final question as they have never let me down...
I do not want to think about this but over many years they have done so much for my rats, rabbits, cats, dogs and horses. They have discussed things and have treated me as an intelligent person and respected my views when it comes to that final question.
I have never disputed them and have always been there for their final moments.
 
amylou_84 said:
Yeah the spasms arnt very nice to watch. You think they are still alive but its just relfex. The last breath isnt very nice either. There is a word for it but cant remember. Is like their soul is being breathed out! Iv seen it enough to be able to distance myself. Need to other wise it can get upsetting. Its worse when the owners are around as you sense their upset so sets you off.
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My Rottie yelped the second before she died after the injection. That has kind of stayed with me. I didn't know if it meant she felt pain, fear or what else might have caused it :(
 
Stuff like that does. My rabbit died during hte night. I was only 12 and found her dead in the hutch in the morning. My mum put her in a bag and i still remember hte noise of her hittin the floor as it was an empty feed bag and my mum hadnt lifted it up off the floor enough :( Still feel bad. Poor Fluffy.
 
I watched an older pony that I was close to be PTS by injection last week after suffering colic & a possible tumour. It's the first time I have seen any animal be PTS; I wasn't sure whether I could stay and watch or not, as I was very upset and scared but it all happened quite quickly.
To be honest, I'm not usually good at this kind of thing, but in the end, it meant more to me to stay with the pony and say goodbye, and I think this overcame my fear. The pony was already down when given the injection and in a lot of pain, but when the injection was given, he passed very quickly and quietly. We got to stay with him and stroke him during and afterwards.
I left before his body was collected as I didn't think I could cope with watching him being moved.
The vet was fantastic and very reassuring throughout and it was all very peaceful, considering the circumstances.
Does anyone have any tips on getting over this kind of thing though?! I can't seem to stop crying over what has happened. Just when I think I have it under control, I set off all over again... very embarrassing! He wasn't even my pony, but I had such a soft spot for him and had known him for four years. I know that him being PTS was the best thing for him, but I just feel so sad.
 
Izzy - its normal to feel as you do and to find yourself crying if you were very fond of the pony. Grief is part of the deal. These feeling will diminish over time, you should start to feel more your usual self within a few weeks. It can take years to get over a major bereavement (of a human of a dearly loved animal). It sounds like you did very well being a support at the time.
 
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