Advice please (sorry boring title but it says it all!)

[Fen]

Hello everybody please could you try and help me. A bit of background on me first, I'm 40 and have been around horses all my life, always loaning others or helping other people with theirs etc, I ride fairly well but since being bolted with along a road 2 years ago I am now a nervous rider, I have a young family so do all I can to avoid falling off!
For over a year now, I have been looking after 2 connemaras for a friend, who live at her house, Mary is 14 and Peter is 21. They are very happy together and only make faces at tea time. My friend said if I ever got my own horse, he or she could live there as well, there is more than enough grazing to go round.
2 weeks ago I brought my own horse, Mister, a 10yr old appaloosa gelding to join the family. I roped him off an area so they could get the hellos out of the way safely and after a week, they were all in together, he seemed to have settled and they accepted him, again the only problems I ever saw were when food was put out.
Mister and I had a few very quiet hacks alone, always on the same one route, taking about 30 mins, only walking and trotting and I was always waiting for something to go wrong, he seemed very tense. I was glad when we got back in one piece, but thought this was because of my history. He was constantly calling to the others, and they calling back, he would stop and need alot of encouragement to walk on. Anyway, yesterday I tacked him up, and becasue he seemed so up on his toes, in the end, I decided I would just walk him out a little way instead of riding. We got a fair way with him shouting to the others and then I didn't feel at all in control so I turned for home. At this point he reared up, snatched the reins out of my hand and galloped for home. Luckily he did go into the yard although he slipped over turning as it was so wet. So now I have lost all confidence about riding him again, although happy to work on the ground with him. I feel so disappointed as his description was glowing, a calm steady plod who took novice and nervous riders.
So today I feel a bit better and decided that I will let him settle right in before I ask anymore of him, and take it right back to basics, lots of grooming, getting to know each other etc. In the field this morning, he was mounting Mary, who I think has come into season. Over this past year I have never known her to come into season, but now we have the urinating, the getting in Mister's face, the winking (almost the mane flick lol), all to get his attention. He was really on top of her and seemed to be enjoying himself! Anyway, I suppose I'm asking is this all normal, is this part of them establishing who is top dog etc, Peter doesn't mount Mary although does strike out at Mister and plenty of squealing going on. Could this be why Mister was so out of character and came running home yesterday-to get to Mary?
Sorry for such a long epistle, Please any help very much welcomed, many thanks Fen x

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I am sure you will get advice and reassurance from many people, but this settling-in period is often very difficult, especially for new and nervous owners. The most steady, reliable horse can turn into an anxious stress head when they are in a new environment. If you add to that the fact that horses are very sensitive to your mood, and you describe yourself as "always waiting for something to go wrong", and then throw new field companions including a sexy mare into the mix, it's not surprising at all that Mister has been behaving out of character.

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by getting to know him. He needs to be familiar with you and accept you as his leader. Lots of grooming to make friends, and lots of groundwork to establish who is in charge! Then you can work up to walking him out in hand, and when you feel more confident walk him out tacked up so that you can hop on if you feel the urge.

I found this book incredibly helpful and always recommend it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/101-Horsema...F1K_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416315572&sr=1-1

 

[squidsin]

Lots of horses don't hack out well alone, particularly in a new environment. He sounds as if he was worried on his own. Try hacking out with a friend and he will probably be fine. However, if you think you've been missold your horse, and you're going to struggle with him, then ask the ex-owners to take him back before you get attached, and try and find something more suitable. There is no shame in that.

 

[Chrisnscully]

I had exactly the same issue with Scully when we moved yards - so not a trust issue - she became very attached to her field mate and quite aggressive if we tried to separate them - it all calmed down after a few weeks. So I would advise just to give it time - ground work is never wasted, especially with a new hossie!

 

[LindaAd]

I think I'd be a bit worried about the mounting behaviour - I've known mares get flirtatious with sexy new geldings, but if I was the mare's owner I don't think I'd be very happy. I'd also be wondering if maybe Mister was a bit riggy. But my experience is limited - is there anyone you can ask about it? Maybe your vet? Perhaps someone more knowledgable in here will comment.

But the nervousness about hacking on his own is normal - it's not just the worry about being in a new place, he's feeling your nervousness as well. I'm sure you can get over that, with time.

 

[Skib]

And what about his background? What was he doing before he was sold? Was he at a riding school. If so he would have been used to working in company.

I know it is prejudice but I am suspicious of appaloosa's willingness to conform - bred for the colouring rather than for temperament. My cousin and another friend both own one - not problem free - and there is one at the school where I hack, but by the time I got good enough to ride and control him, he was no longer used by any students at all. Very attractive horses that come up for sale but did you fully appreciate what you were buying?

 

[Kite_Rider]

Another one who would say just give him a bit of time, at the end of the day if he's picking up on your nerves and everything is new to him it will be hard for him, as for the mare coming into season well that's just mares I reckon, my girl is the same if there's a new man in town!
Two weeks is a very short time in terms of him settling so groundwork and handling may well be a very good idea for a while, establish who's in charge and get to know each other before you tackle anything else if you are nervous, I'm sure your safe and sensible horse is still there, he just needs to find his feet and settle down into his new herd/owner/routine.

 

[Fen]

I am sure you will get advice and reassurance from many people, but this settling-in period is often very difficult, especially for new and nervous owners. The most steady, reliable horse can turn into an anxious stress head when they are in a new environment. If you add to that the fact that horses are very sensitive to your mood, and you describe yourself as "always waiting for something to go wrong", and then throw new field companions including a sexy mare into the mix, it's not surprising at all that Mister has been behaving out of character.

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by getting to know him. He needs to be familiar with you and accept you as his leader. Lots of grooming to make friends, and lots of groundwork to establish who is in charge! Then you can work up to walking him out in hand, and when you feel more confident walk him out tacked up so that you can hop on if you feel the urge.

I found this book incredibly helpful and always recommend it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/101-Horsema...F1K_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416315572&sr=1-1

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply-much appreciated! xx

 

[Kite_Rider]

I know it is prejudice but I am suspicious of appaloosa's willingness to conform - bred for the colouring rather than for temperament. My cousin and another friend both own one - not problem free - and there is one at the school where I hack, but by the time I got good enough to ride and control him, he was no longer used by any students at all. Very attractive horses that come up for sale but did you fully appreciate what you were buying?

Not all of them have issues Skib, the lad I used to share was Appaloosa cross section D and although sharp as a tack, was and still is a safe, sensible boy with no issues.

 

[Fen]

Thank you everyone, all comments read and taken note of! He was a hunter for 5 seasons, I also have pics of him doing what I assume to be xc, but was told that he always did the least amount of work possible and would love a quiet hacking home. It was the description of him I liked the look of, before I met him, wouldn't have bothered me what colour he was to be honest

 

[gino21nurse]

keep going things will work out fine x

 

[Jessey]

In simple terms horses aren't about making friends, they are all about figuring out who they respect most and that needs to be you so groundwork is a great way to go. Having said that a hunting horse will have been used to going out in company so if you plan on riding alone you may want to seriously consider if you are in a position to help him overcome his anxiety about being alone, if you plan to ride in company mostly I would try taking him out in company before making a decision and possibly have your vet run bloods to check if he's riggy but thats pretty normal in the first few weeks, my mare only has to meet a new gelding to be red hot in season in minutes [emoji57]

 

[Mary Poppins]

Is he used to hacking out on his own? If he hasn't done much of this then he is bound to be nervous. I would speak to the previous owner and find out exactly what he has done before. If he has never hacked out solo, you will have to teach him how to do this. Lot of hunting horses are fine in a group, but do not do well on their own.

Do you have support around you? Could someone else hack him out and see how they get on?

 

[Cortrasna]

It is early days and sometimes even the most saintly horse can be a demon in a new home for a few weeks whilst they settle down.

I do agree that his history could have some bearing on hacking alone. It would seem that my horse had done most of her riding in groups of other horses and rarely if ever asked to hack alone. It did take her a little while to settle and get more comfortable going out by ourselves.

I think MP's idea about perhaps getting a more experienced rider to try hacking him out for you might well either prove the point that he really doesn't like being made to go out alone, or he is quite happy with firmness and confident riding. If the latter is the case it should help you feel more confident doing it yourself.

Good luck and stick with it, the first few weeks can be very demoralising but 99 per cent of the time well worth it when they eventually settle.

 

[eml]

I would be concerned about the fact his arrival has brought a mare who is not normally 'marish' into season and is happily covering her and having coltish fights with the other gelding. The first thing I would do in that case would be to separate him and put him only with other geldings. I suspect the desire to rush back to the yard is mare related rather than nerves.

I understand this may mean you cannot keep this horse with your friends but unfortunately there are geldings, not only rigs, who cannot be turned out with mares. I have one at 20 year old, riding school saint but has to be doubled fenced away from mares or he gets very silly.

 

[Spot the wonder horse]

We had a gelding that would mount my mare when he was stressed! Usually when we had moved yards.

 

[sjp1]

I would be concerned about the fact his arrival has brought a mare who is not normally 'marish' into season and is happily covering her and having coltish fights with the other gelding. The first thing I would do in that case would be to separate him and put him only with other geldings. I suspect the desire to rush back to the yard is mare related rather than nerves.

I understand this may mean you cannot keep this horse with your friends but unfortunately there are geldings, not only rigs, who cannot be turned out with mares. I have one at 20 year old, riding school saint but has to be doubled fenced away from mares or he gets very silly.

And mine is another such horse!!! He is also an appaloosa - but that has nothing to do with it. At my last yard, my YO would not have mares and geldings together because of such issues. He was the easiest he has ever been on that regime.

He is out with a mare now - he was a nightmare at the last show we went to, and was dreadful when we went to a friends arena - she owns a gelding and mine double barrelled at him, pulled faces etc., because he didn't want the gelding near 'his girls'!

He was cut late after having bred a foal but isn't a rig, just loves the ladies too much. He has a tendon injury just now, so I am not riding him, so am not that fussed, but I will be moving back to the farm, and he will ONLY be having a gelding as a companion - annoying, but just makes life a lot easier!

 

[Anne Gage]

You are dealing with a couple of issues that may or may not be connected. The first one is the dynamic between your gelding and the mare. I prefer to keep mares and geldings separate just for this reason. They can become very attached very quickly and you end up with the separation anxiety that your gelding is displaying. You also have the other gelding in the mix which creates competition for the one mare. In the wild, horses live in bands of mares with one mature stallion who breeds the mares. Once young stallions start to become competition for the mature stallion, they are kicked out of the herd and travel in bachelor bands until they are able to win over their own band of mares. Even though the 2 boys in your band of 3 are geldings, the same herd competition applies. And, it is not unusual for a gelding to mount a mare.

The second issue is that your gelding has been taken away from everything and everyone that is familiar to him. Basically, his whole world has changed. Since horses get their sense of safety and security from being in a herd, that is where he now feels most comfortable - with the other horses. So, the ground work you are doing and time you are spending with him are very important for building a trusting relationship with him.

If your horse has only ever been ridden in company with other horses, then riding out alone will definitely be stressful for him. This is true for horses who have been pleasure, hunt or show horses.

A client had a similar situation when she added a 7 year old gelding to her existing little herd 2 - a mare and gelding (both seniors). The young gelding quickly attached himself to the mare. The older gelding was isolated by them both. The young gelding would mount the mare when she was in season. There was a lot of separation anxiety with both the mare and the young gelding whenever we worked with the gelding. Even just bringing him into the barn ended with them both screaming unless they were within sight of each other. Unfortunately, the mare ended up with a broken pelvis (we suspect from the gelding mounting her) and had to be euthanized. Within a few days of her death, the dynamic changed and both geldings become more relaxed. We were able to progress with the young geldings training and could even ride him safely and calmly when the other gelding was out of his sight.

Initially, we worked with the young gelding where he could see his herd mate (ground work and then adding in quiet riding). We would keep the older gelding closed into a paddock near where we were working the younger one. Gradually, we would take the younger one further away and eventually out of sight of the other gelding while working with him. We would always come back to where he was comfortable if he got too stressed. As he became more comfortable and remained calm, we allowed the older gelding to go into another paddock (connected by a gate to the smaller paddock we had initially kept him in). Now, we can work with the gelding totally on his own and are introducing him to different areas around the property.

In between my twice weekly sessions with this gelding, his owner would hand walk him around the property. Starting out close to the barn yard and gradually expanding his area of comfort as he became less distressed about being away from his herd mates.

Take your time to get to know each other. Work with him only where you are both calm and comfortable for now and keep expanding the comfort area gradually. Take your time. Relationship building can't be hurried.

 

[Native Lover]

There is some really great advice on this thread. And not much I would add to the mix except that it will take him awhile to settle into his new surroundings and begin to settle down. As the owner f nine ponies I often watch herd dynamics and when we put a new pony in they are left to find there pecking order for a few weeks before we do much other than the basics with them.

Mine are split into three herds because my two Geldings don't get on ( they double barrel each other and play fight like stallions but they are both show ponies so I keep the separate to stop damage). My fell pony Lunan has his two girls and my welsh cob Stormy has 3 girls and my little Mr Darcy sec A and Sweep the Shetland are both on reduced grazing so graze together.

I find this the simplest way to manage my herd and you can take each horse out of the herd on it own to groom or see the farrier and they aren't stressed. You can ride the ponies next to ponies galloping around in the paddocks and they pay no attention to them.

Maybe can you not ride in the paddocks near to were the other two horses are? Maybe he will be settled if he can see and hear his new herd? Is there space to make a small schooling area while you get used too each other? Do lots of ground work and grooming let him know and trust you

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[Jlb1989]

I've recently just bought my mare lady and also moved to a brand new yard things have always been easy but due to the fact my new yard offers winter turn out we took on 13 more horses since this lady has been a right "mare" to get on ! Flirting winking she's a right tart lol perseverance is the only way forward I'm lucky enough to have a full sand ménage and so even though I'm disabled I've forced my self to get on every day even for just 10 minutes it seems to have worked I hacked out yesterday she was good as gold but again once on yard and the boys are view she's a flirt and becomes ignorant lol take abit of time to learn about mister it's all part of the fun your both finding your feet