Background - ex racer off the tracks bought to become a broodmare. 4 yrs old. First month spent rearing in a blind panic but gradually calmed down and for a while became a doddle to handle. Usual scenario of gaining condition and becoming a bit more confident. Showing aggression in stable (kicking,biting). This we've dealt with by usual stuff, making her move over, tying her up to rug and in extremes a slap to the neck when shes been downright vicious. Behaviour has not improved greatly but been manageable. However my gelding (who was top horse in field) has been away for last 3 weeks having some schooling and she has become top mare. She's beome hell! Today in the field when I went to check rugs she launched herself at me, snaking her head teeth flashing. I made myself big, jumped up and down like an idiot bellowing at her in an effort to send her away but she kept on coming until she cornered me and tried to double barrel. Same thing happened to my other half who went in later (I've never seen a big bloke move so fast!) How do I now deal with this? Show her more aggression ie go in with a lunge whip and if she doesn't move away from it then as a last resort hit her? Or is this just going to fuel the aggression? How to you cope with a horse that doesn't back down? We keep her at home so its just me and OH to deal with her. I've never dealt with a horse that you can't send away from you, she just keeps coming no matter what!! HELP
Aggressive mare help!!!
- Thread starter evie's mummy
- Start date
do you know anymore of her history? was she abused?
Does she come accross as being particularly scared, or is she trying to put you in your place by taking the role of leader and dominance?
If she did that to me, Id stick her in a (small) school, and chase her...Id make her go round and round until she showed signs of submission (licking, chewing lips), then Id stop. make myself look less threatenning, and turn my bakc wiating for her to approach (with her head down, and ears forward). If
she was being nasty because she wanted to be team leader, and she wanted to tell you what to do, then Ive just put her in her place by saying I am the one in charge - NOT her. (by chasing).
However, if she were being aggressive out of fear, then Id have just shown her that Im actually NOT going to hurt her, and Im letting her get close to me on a friendlier bases by my latter body language, and through letting her approach me.
She may well buck and squeal and rear and kick at first, but the aim is for you to stay at a safe distance, but still driving her forward and in the same direction - she can get rid of all her tension at a safe distance in the school. Just make sure you are being the "scary", and "dominant" one at the beginning, and that YOU are making her run away FROM you. When she shows signs of submission, then you can change from "aggressive", and "dominant" to accepting, and friendly. Break eye contact, and let her approach you (send her away again if she approaches in a threatening way/with her ears back, and dont let her approach you again until she is less threatening.) She should be more interested in you. She should be looking to you for direction, and she should be more willing.
It may, however, take a few sessions before she learns that YOU are the boss NOT her.
You dont have to be cruel to her though - you dont have to hit her or anything....its just taking what they would do in the wild, but avoiding the "fight", which is what 2 dominant horses would naturally do to establish who really is in charge.
From there, you can do ground work and establish a bond
Chainging her feed may also help - put her on something less sugary and take out the oats if you are feeding her such - they will only build up energy within her that she will want to vent at some point....
Also.....is there a chance that she may be in foal?
hope everything turns out ok for you both in the end
Does she come accross as being particularly scared, or is she trying to put you in your place by taking the role of leader and dominance?
If she did that to me, Id stick her in a (small) school, and chase her...Id make her go round and round until she showed signs of submission (licking, chewing lips), then Id stop. make myself look less threatenning, and turn my bakc wiating for her to approach (with her head down, and ears forward). If
she was being nasty because she wanted to be team leader, and she wanted to tell you what to do, then Ive just put her in her place by saying I am the one in charge - NOT her. (by chasing).
However, if she were being aggressive out of fear, then Id have just shown her that Im actually NOT going to hurt her, and Im letting her get close to me on a friendlier bases by my latter body language, and through letting her approach me.
She may well buck and squeal and rear and kick at first, but the aim is for you to stay at a safe distance, but still driving her forward and in the same direction - she can get rid of all her tension at a safe distance in the school. Just make sure you are being the "scary", and "dominant" one at the beginning, and that YOU are making her run away FROM you. When she shows signs of submission, then you can change from "aggressive", and "dominant" to accepting, and friendly. Break eye contact, and let her approach you (send her away again if she approaches in a threatening way/with her ears back, and dont let her approach you again until she is less threatening.) She should be more interested in you. She should be looking to you for direction, and she should be more willing.
It may, however, take a few sessions before she learns that YOU are the boss NOT her.
You dont have to be cruel to her though - you dont have to hit her or anything....its just taking what they would do in the wild, but avoiding the "fight", which is what 2 dominant horses would naturally do to establish who really is in charge.
From there, you can do ground work and establish a bond
Chainging her feed may also help - put her on something less sugary and take out the oats if you are feeding her such - they will only build up energy within her that she will want to vent at some point....
Also.....is there a chance that she may be in foal?
hope everything turns out ok for you both in the end
all good points ashlea thankyou. She's definately using her aggression to dominate me, i firmly believe its not a fear issue. She is 100% worse when she's in the company of mares, that seems to bring out the worst in her. When I had her in with just my gelding she was far easier. Now shes in with my other broodmare and a 6 month old filly she's at her worst. She becomes highly insecure and clingy to the other mares but vile to humans. Trouble is because I have a small herd at home at some point she has to be able to cope being with other mares. I haven't got access to a manege to use to school her so I have problems doing groundwork with her (my fields are very unlevel and muddy)
she is being fed apha a oil, baileys cond cubes and speedibeet. Have had trouble getting weight on when she first came and shes still a bit light but would welcome any suggestions on changing feed. I think she needs some work, being brought on under saddle but I'm too heavy for her and without a manege would struggle to get anyone else. Thinking of sending her away in spring to reschool and sell. But in the meantime need to be able to deal with her and sort out these issues. (won't resell if shes still dangerous)
No shes def not in foal. Tried AI with her twice and it failed. She was due to go to stud in spring but seeing her temperament at moment thats not something I would now consider (not much of a role model for future foal!)
she is being fed apha a oil, baileys cond cubes and speedibeet. Have had trouble getting weight on when she first came and shes still a bit light but would welcome any suggestions on changing feed. I think she needs some work, being brought on under saddle but I'm too heavy for her and without a manege would struggle to get anyone else. Thinking of sending her away in spring to reschool and sell. But in the meantime need to be able to deal with her and sort out these issues. (won't resell if shes still dangerous)
No shes def not in foal. Tried AI with her twice and it failed. She was due to go to stud in spring but seeing her temperament at moment thats not something I would now consider (not much of a role model for future foal!)
hehe, if only we all had schools, huh!
I dont have one either.....but I need somewhere to put my gelding to school, because he can be a little like your mare! HEs just naturally a dominant horse, and wants to be in charge of everything, and wants to make sure his handlers arent going to step out of line....
I sectioned off a corner of the field and did as I suggested above...it works brilliantlyu for me, because the horse in question has the right sort of personailty for such methods HEs not AFRAID of things - wont just bolt off...more likely to come flying at you, so you have no choice but to tell him that you are the one in charge, not him - and the only way he understands that is by chasing him away, and making him go where you want him to....afterwards, hes like a compleltely different horse! To the point that he;ll do anything to please, and is so soppy! Honestly, its like jeckle and hyde! just need to know how to work with him!
I let complete novices ride and handle him....if he shows ANY signs of aggression towards them, then I make them get in the school to chase....Its not about beating the poor horse...its just about getting him to understand that his delusions of grandeur are completley out of place when it comes to dominating humans!
My gelding is only 4 though - so really, he is still learning...but he is naturally a "dominant" horse....couldnt be more different to my filly, or my cob....Ive had ALL of them since they were foals, so theyve all had pretty much the same upbringing....its just that its this particular geldings personality to be dominant and he wants to take the lead role.....
He's met his match, mwa ha ha!
I dont have one either.....but I need somewhere to put my gelding to school, because he can be a little like your mare! HEs just naturally a dominant horse, and wants to be in charge of everything, and wants to make sure his handlers arent going to step out of line....
I sectioned off a corner of the field and did as I suggested above...it works brilliantlyu for me, because the horse in question has the right sort of personailty for such methods
HEs not AFRAID of things - wont just bolt off...more likely to come flying at you, so you have no choice but to tell him that you are the one in charge, not him - and the only way he understands that is by chasing him away, and making him go where you want him to....afterwards, hes like a compleltely different horse! To the point that he;ll do anything to please, and is so soppy! Honestly, its like jeckle and hyde! just need to know how to work with him!I let complete novices ride and handle him....if he shows ANY signs of aggression towards them, then I make them get in the school to chase....Its not about beating the poor horse...its just about getting him to understand that his delusions of grandeur are completley out of place when it comes to dominating humans!
My gelding is only 4 though - so really, he is still learning...but he is naturally a "dominant" horse....couldnt be more different to my filly, or my cob....Ive had ALL of them since they were foals, so theyve all had pretty much the same upbringing....its just that its this particular geldings personality to be dominant and he wants to take the lead role.....
He's met his match, mwa ha ha!
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baileys cond cubes sent my boy nuts and in only a week of being on it, i was afraid to handle him, he really wasnt a nice boy on the stuff.
What did you change it for? As i mentioned she's still a bit on the light side, used to have her on Allen and Page weight gain mix but a nutritionist friend advised me off that as too much starch? She recommended alphabeet but that really sent her dolally
What did you change it for? As i mentioned she's still a bit on the light side, used to have her on Allen and Page weight gain mix but a nutritionist friend advised me off that as too much starch? She recommended alphabeet but that really sent her dolally
plain old corse mix, and herbal chaff, had him on the beat as well but aint never bother with it again for a couple of years. if she aint being worked then u are just fueling the fire as they say.
From our experience of TBs several are both sugar and starch intolerant. Saracens Releve seems one feed that works but tbh I would stick to nmasses of hay only until you resolve the behavioural issues.
Is she straight out of racing or has she been at stud before? Has your vet run a hormone profile ..this could indicate why she is so dominant as well as why AI failed twice. I have heard that fillies in training at 2yo often suffer from hormone problems.
Is she straight out of racing or has she been at stud before? Has your vet run a hormone profile ..this could indicate why she is so dominant as well as why AI failed twice. I have heard that fillies in training at 2yo often suffer from hormone problems.
What did you change it for? As i mentioned she's still a bit on the light side, used to have her on Allen and Page weight gain mix but a nutritionist friend advised me off that as too much starch? She recommended alphabeet but that really sent her dolally
i put him on it as there was some one at the stables always goin on i wasnt feedin him right and i should use it so to shut him up i did well i wish i hadnt, what did he know about horses, jack **** it turned out lol
She's straight out of racing. Only 4 now so already been through quite alot! Do you know how much it is to run a hormone profile? Only my vets bill for just the AI came to nearly £1k (lots of sedation and scans as she has silent seasons) so I'm both broke and loathe to spend more money at the vets! Thats why we were planning to send her to stud for natural covering as it seemed less medical intervention and also the presence of a stallion may spark her seasons into becoming more apparent. But thinking about it she has always seemed 'odd' hormone wise. I've always thought she definatley had lesbian tendancies as she much prefers the mares and becomes more flirty with them
She's straight out of racing. Only 4 now so already been through quite alot! Do you know how much it is to run a hormone profile? Only my vets bill for just the AI came to nearly £1k (lots of sedation and scans as she has silent seasons) so I'm both broke and loathe to spend more money at the vets! Thats why we were planning to send her to stud for natural covering as it seemed less medical intervention and also the presence of a stallion may spark her seasons into becoming more apparent. But thinking about it she has always seemed 'odd' hormone wise. I've always thought she definatley had lesbian tendancies as she much prefers the mares and becomes more flirty with them
omg we have a mare at my place who is a lesbian i swera lol, everytime she looked at the other mare she would squirt but i got to say she did get in with the boys so now im guessing she swings both ways lol
You make me laugh
In seriousness though I wonder if any studies have been done with this? 'cos she really is odd when out wth the ladies and as much as I jest I really wonder whether she is just attracted to them? Put her out with the geldings and she shows no seperation anxiety, no flirtation, nothing. She just gets on and eats. its so bizarre but I would love to know whether in the horse world gay tendancies have been noted. (by the way I hope I don't offend anybody,this is not to say that gay tendancies are wrong or not 'normal')You make me laugh
im OFFENED lol only joking lol. theres ya answer then, stick her in with the guelding, i reakon shes a butch lesbion lol
We started Scaracens releve when one of ours started tying up , and choking and ..and..(we think she just liked visiting the vets!). Certainly is the only feed that has really suited her.
All of our TBs do show some sort of stressy behaviours from woodchewing to windsucking and stangely enough are worse when turned out. They do need a very definate routine.
If you can get in touch with her last trainer you may get some insight into her previous routine. It may be that she has never been turned away before and is not coping, we had one straight out of training in for livery once and had to be rugged and fed from hay nets tied to hedges in july as he had no clue that grass was for eating.
As far as hormone levels it is a blood test but I am not sure of the lab costs, it sounds as if you need to be testing for excess levels of testerone which would account for the lack of seasons and the dominant behaviour.
All of our TBs do show some sort of stressy behaviours from woodchewing to windsucking and stangely enough are worse when turned out. They do need a very definate routine.
If you can get in touch with her last trainer you may get some insight into her previous routine. It may be that she has never been turned away before and is not coping, we had one straight out of training in for livery once and had to be rugged and fed from hay nets tied to hedges in july as he had no clue that grass was for eating.
As far as hormone levels it is a blood test but I am not sure of the lab costs, it sounds as if you need to be testing for excess levels of testerone which would account for the lack of seasons and the dominant behaviour.
Lunging her may help build up a bond, and also help to channel her energy...she will also benefit from being able to get rid of any excess "excitement", or even "aggression" - which she can do so in a "safe" environement - where theres space for her to kick out, throw her head etc....just let her get it out of her system if she needs to! Being on a lunge will also help her to focus on what you are asking her to do, rather than focus on trying to "double barrel" you because she will soon learn that its not her place to do so - you are in charge, not her!
Dont over do it if shes trying to put weight on though...and if shes not clipped, and its windy, then dont let her sweat too much either - she'll get a chill. Id say, just do enough to get rid of the energy, and let her calm down because you want to keep weight, not work it off!
Id also (based on what other people have said to), consider adapting her diet! Hopefully that will help mellow her out too....Mine are unrugged and living out 24/7 at the moment - only on hay too.....If your mare was mine, I may even consider (depending on just how much wieght your mare needs to put on), taking her off feed altogether for a couple of weeks, and replacing it with extra hay instead - just to see if that does mellow her down......Id make sure she were well rugged up though if Im taking her off the feed (dont want her shivering any more weight off, lol).
p.s. adding a cup of aloe vera to her water will help with "tying up" and mild colic - it really is great stuff! oooh, it will probably also help to sooth ulcers too
Dont over do it if shes trying to put weight on though...and if shes not clipped, and its windy, then dont let her sweat too much either - she'll get a chill. Id say, just do enough to get rid of the energy, and let her calm down because you want to keep weight, not work it off!
Id also (based on what other people have said to), consider adapting her diet! Hopefully that will help mellow her out too....Mine are unrugged and living out 24/7 at the moment - only on hay too.....If your mare was mine, I may even consider (depending on just how much wieght your mare needs to put on), taking her off feed altogether for a couple of weeks, and replacing it with extra hay instead - just to see if that does mellow her down......Id make sure she were well rugged up though if Im taking her off the feed (dont want her shivering any more weight off, lol).
p.s. adding a cup of aloe vera to her water will help with "tying up" and mild colic - it really is great stuff! oooh, it will probably also help to sooth ulcers too
oooh, yeah
testing is a good idea, but only if you have tried everything else to find other reasons/solutions first, as it can get quite costly! Ive seen horses suddenly change their behaviour and become aggressive because of tumours affecting hormones etc...but it does all add up - I really would try all you can first, and then see what the vet recommends....they often run "precautionary tests" that come back negative, but are expensive nonethelesskeep plodding on - im sure everything will get better! D'you know, Im so glad you are looking for advice about what you can do rather than just getting too scared, giving up and trying to get rid of her! Im sure you will come up trumps in the end......Im willing ya on
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