Clearing up some confusion between cues for sidepass and yielding hindquarters?

horsecrazychick

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Dec 23, 2004
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Right now I'm riding/training 2 3yr olds, a mustang pony and a TB. I've been working w/ both of them on moving off the leg. The pony does wonderful turn on the forehand and just scoots her bum right over when I bump w/ my leg, but she had a little trouble learning the sidepass because she didn't want to move her shoulders over. So I'm teaching her to sidepass when I put my leg on and open w/ the rein in the direction she's going, while using the other rein to flex her slightly in the opposite direction. For yileding HQ, I flex her to the inside a little and bump w/ my leg. Is this right?
My TB, on the other hand, does beatiful sidepasses, but won't really move JUST her HQ over. She tends to move her shoulders over more than her HQ, and will actually do a turn ON the HQ if I use my leg and reins to ask her to move her shoulders over in a circle. She's the same on the ground- she'd rather circle around me and move her shoulders towards me then actually move just her HQ over.
What am I doing wrong? Am I mixing up the cues? Do they just need more practice?
 
Hi Horsecrazychick -

I've cheated a bit here and pasted an answer below which I posted on another thread - hopes it helps a bit. Couple of extra things though - rather than bumping with your leg, it might help if you just applied the leg cue and kept it on until you get the response you're looking for, otherwise your giving a release immediately after the 'bump' which won't mean anything to your horses. I've gone into more detail below, but basically I see lateral work as a 3 step process - first you teach turn on the forehand, then turn on the hindquarters, finally put them both together and you get your sidepass.
It sounds as though you have the right basics, just need to clean the cues up a bit, and be really careful with rewarding the correct response. Keep it calm and repetitive, and they'll hopefully both get it:D

~

I had no idea how to begin with lateral work until I went to a clinic with Mark Rashid a couple of years ago. My horse was very inxeperienced at this point, and I didn't really believe that we were at an advanced enough stage when Mark suggested teaching some of these movements, but I couldn't believe how easily he took to them.

We started with the turn on the forehand, and Mark explained how all of the movements could be linked together to eventually create your sidepass (leg yield), by teaching the front end to move, then the hindquarters, then both together.

With the turn on the forehand, I'll run through the cues as they were explained to me. Firstly, take up a little contact on the rein, just to discourage forward movement, then drift your leg back behind the cinch, and gradually apply pressure until there is some sideways movement. This doesn't even have to be a step, just a shift of weight will do initially. Then immediately release the cue. I would have missed a couple of his first tries, if I hadn't had Mark on the ground pointing these out and telling me when to release. You might want to get someone to 'spot' for you for the first few times. You can then gradually leave your leg for a fraction longer once you get the shift of weight every time you ask, and wait for a step over, then release. It's vitally important to reward every try though.

Mark explained that he would always teach this in the middle of a space, rather than in a corner, with less options for movement. He believes that the horse needs to eliminate all of the wrong answers before he can decide on the correct one. This way, he takes responsibility for the movement, and learns it in a way where he is convinced that he has the right answer - rather than always having doubts. Although my horse was initially trying every move he already knew (forward, backward, turning), I simply kept the cue there until his feet were stopped, and his weight shifted over, then released.

The turn on the hauches was next. Before we could put that in place, he needed to have his rein back soft and fluid, with no resistance. The cue for the turn on the haunches was to begin to ask for the back, then as soon as the weight shifts slightly to the hindquarters, lay the rein across the neck (so for example the left rein for a turn to the right), and keep it there until the front end shifts over. Again, the horse will probably try all kinds of other movements before getting it right ( mine decided he really knew how to do the turn on the forehand, and offered this up immediately ), but again, the cue must remain consistent, and kept on until there is a 'drift' over of the front end, when there needs to be an immediate release. You might find again that you need someone on the ground looking for the shift for you, it can be really difficult to spot in amongst everything else. Mark also stressed that while we were both learning these moves, we could accept that he might be backing up when the step over happens, and that this was not something to worry about. If he needed to be moving backwards in order to lift his front end to move it over, then we could allow that to start with.

We then moved on briefly to the sidepass, and it was incredible to me that he was so light on his feet following the other two moves, that I only had to put my leg against his girth, and it happened immediately.

I have never taught this from the ground, but would imagine that the principles would remain the same.

Sorry for the long ramble - hope it helps!
 
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