Clicker Training for a Yearling?

[No_Angel]

Anyone done clicker training with their yearling?

I found my clicker in my pocket tonight so I tried a bit with her and she seemed to get it straight away and seemed really been on it.

I am having a bit of a problem with her picking her feet up and moving over now she has become a bit of a madam, so I thought the clicker might help.

Has anyone found their youngster has got a bit too keen or nippy with the clicker? I am a bit worried she will start attacking me for treats as she liked her treats and playing (ie. jumping on peoples heads! as her boring Aunties and Uncles wont play with her)

 

[Skippys Mum]

Arnie wasnt a baby when I started but (thanks to Capalldubh) the first thing he learned was "grown ups are talking" which basically means if he pesters me he doesnt get - and after 2 sessions with very little skin left on my knuckles, he got the hang of it and he's great now

You could do all sorts with her, like retrieve, and that would give her some games to play with you - that dont involve you getting jumped on

 

[Kate F.]

Personally, I'd be a bit cautious about how you use a clicker with a youngster - if you want to use it at all. I think at this age, it's best to stick to reinforcing the desirable behaviours that already exist in the equine "vocabulary" so to speak, and not try to introduce new behaviours that aren't natural to horses.

Firstly, food isn't a natural social binder in horses they way it is in predators. Social activity around food for horses is usually about competition for resources. In predators, there is the competition element, but there is also the "feeding the family" element - so training a dog using food is much closer to its natural framework than it is for a horse.

Secondly, something like "retrieve" is again a predator behaviour - especially dogs. Again, it's linked to the "feeding the family" behaviour, which is alien to the horse.

When horses learn unnatural behaviours very young, they often seem to have behavioural problems later - hand-reared foals, for example.

If you really want to go down the clicker route, I think I'd suggest connecting he click to stroking and scratching rather than food (the foal gets tactile rewards from mum and other horses - that's what it's used to) and stick to "games" around movement and personal space. Stepping back on a signal, stepping forward, moving away, coming towards you, mirroring your movements etc. Of course, if you're going to use the natural rewards of stroking and scratching, then I suppose you have to consider why you want to click at all, as you can just stroke and scratch .... but that's a personal decision!

 

[No_Angel]

Thanks

Last night I was using scratches as a reward (she likes them) but I'm sure she would do a back flip for me for a treat

I really want to do training exercises with her, and at the moment she is not responding to pressure and release, which I usually use with my horses, she is fine when leading, and backing up (although she is very sensitive to pressure and hates anything tightening around her head) but asking her to move over is getting quite dangerous for me, and I would rather she offer me the movement, and I feel clicker is more 'could you possibly move over for me, thank you, heres a treat for your efforts', and Kikis reaction is 'yes of course mummy, do i get a treat for being a good girl', where as the pressure and release is along the lines of 'move over now please' and kikis reaction is 'no f off you can't tell me what to do ill kick your head in', she release of the pressure just isn't enough of a motivator for her anymore.

Her behaviour is getting more dominant with the other horses as well (she lives with 6 others), if they walk up to her and she is standing by a fence, she will tighten up, stand with her head up and not move, unless they physically push her out of the way. My gelding, who is top dog Mr Stallion actually walked around her the other day as she would not move. Not even when they bite at her, she will move a few steps and then make herself solid again.
My head mare has been very tolerant of her, but was in a mood last night as my welsh pony had escaped into longer grass and she wanted in, that is the only time I have ever seen Kiki actually run and get out of the way, but that is only because Amber is a complete bitch (no pecking order comes into it, shes just plain mean sometimes).
I was relying on my herd to teach her the ways of the world, but she is such a dominant character, and in my opinion showing some worrying behaviours, which I would like to address with me (the herd can sort her out themselves) but I very much risk getting my head kicked in at the moment.

 

[katefarmer]

I think it might sort itself out over the next few months. She's at a big transition phase for a horse. She's now at the age when, in the natural state, she would no longer be under mum's protection and would have to find her own place in the herd order. The other horses will be tolerant up to a point (she's only a kid, after all! ) but I would bet that some hooves will be put down (so to speak) fairly soon. This "transition" phase will probably go on until she's about 3 or 4. At around 2, fillies are driven out and make new herds (keeps the gene pool stirring!) and the herd order is worked out again.

The place in the herd is all about personal space, and she's just finding out how far she can push it, both with other horses and with people. I'd be inclined to stick with pressure and release, so you and the other horses are all using the same system with her.

As far as we know, horses don't have any concept of "good" or "bad" as we understand it, so I don't think she's going to get the idea of showing a type of behaviour to "be good". She might connect "move over" with "treat" - but I fear it won't be long until she starts trying to see how little she can move and still get you to provide the treat, and she might get quite demanding. She doesn't understand "reward" and "punishment" in the human sense, and to her, it will all still be about personal space - so you'll have to be perpared to be very firm and stand your ground if she starts mugging you for treats.

In short, whichever route you go, I don't think you're going to find any "easy fix" - she's finding out how much personal space she can control, and whichever means you use, you're eventually going to have to underline the point that she has to move out of your space, not you out of hers.

The good news is that, as I say, I strongly suspect the other horses will start to take things into their own hands/hooves fairly soon!

 

[TiggerthePony]

I clicker train our youngsters, in particular I clicker trained Tigger from about 9 months and it has worked fantastically with him. I haven't pushed it I only taught him things he needs to do so to start with was to stand still, then back up, then pick up his feet, move over each side, let me stand by him with him in front of me (he used to always want me in front of him), I even taught him to trot with it. He is now 3 and has not got too nippy. He has tried once or twice and I have ignored the behaviour or if we are walking along he has found an elbow in his way - I do not move my elbow towards him I just move it in the way so he hits it himself and it worked very well!


Tigger was quite a nervy pony and I found this kind of training worked really well with him as it seemed to help boost his confidence, I don't actually use a clicker I use my voice and each movement he does has a command and when he does it I say good boy in a tone he understands means he did the right thing. He doesn't always get a treat now as he understands he did good and sometimes he will and sometimes he won't. When he doesn't want to be caught I just have to say good boy and he stops and waits! Also it has been handy when I first took him out on the roads as he would concentrate on me and doing the right thing for a treat rather than the traffic!

I have done some with the other ponies and it is amazing how quickly they pick it up. Some are more bargy and nippy than others though so you have to tailor what you to do the character of the pony.

With the feet he would get a treat for judt lifting them then gradually he would have to hold each one up longer and longer and then have them picked out, tapped and rasped.

With moving over again I just kept putting pressure on and the horses initial reaction is to move in to the pressure so sometimes you really need to push but as soon as they make the slightest movement in the right direction you click and reward. Backing up is really easy to teach so it may be worth clicker training this movement then trying the move overs

 

[poniesrule]

Hi. I have been contemplating the idea of clicker training my 12 month old yearling Calli for a little while now, so it has been interesting to read other people's thoughts on this.

Like Kiki, Calli used to 'try it on' in the herd,just after weaning, but now she has been put back in with her mum and old herd, she hasnt done it! Poor girl, shes at the bottom of the order now. I do think that she will move up the order though, as her mum has always been one of the higher ranking horses in the herd, and apparently foals out of these higher mares seek to have the same status when they are older eg.2 years. It would be interesting to find out whether Kiki's mum was a higher ranking mare wouldnt it?

Calli is good at the moving over and back, but i find that she is not so good at going forward from pressure. So they all have their quirks

Yearlings go through some naughty stages dont they!!! Calli went through a phase where she literally rugby tackled me every tiime i tryed to lead her.... and then the rearing (though that was me overfacing her a bit with the ground training, so i mellowed out with it and she returned to normal self)

I am going to order Rich Maxwell's latest book 'training your young horse' it's supposed to be ace and his birth to backing book is worth getting too.

Keep us posted.Lou.

 

[sheer bliss]

I've used the clicker with my youngster, hes mouthy anyway, and rigish, and wouldn't listen to any pressure
I found it fab, as said above the first lesson needs to be ' grown ups are talking' so mugging is completly ignored and if they try to mug step back, turn away, whatever you need to do, and click and reward the moment they stop trying to mug, reinforcing the good behaviour
I've used clicker for picking up feet, stepping back, sideways etc - which he wouldn't tolerate with pressure and release, but does now. I also take it out when I lead him out round the village, so I can praise for being brave / watching traffic go by while standing still etc etc