Dodgy passport?

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LinzCos

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Nov 18, 2004
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I went to look at a horse today and the story from the seller was very odd. She was a very pleasant woman, appeared genuine but didn't seem very horsey.

She didn't know much about the horse, claiming it was her daughters, they had owned it a year or so, nothing about previous history only that it was Irish. Said it was a TBX but turned out to be an Irish racehorse, full TB. Said it was 7 years old but it seemed older. I am no expert but it was very thin and depressed and I guess either older than 7 or very malnourished and possibly ill.

Finally turned out that there was no record of ownership on the passport so I suggested she might get the passport updated or she might find it difficult to sell and declined to go further. Left amicably.

Left me feeling very sad for the horse and wondering what wasn't kosher about the whole deal. Do you think it is common to have a fake passport and this was an older horse or was the poor thing just poorly and old looking. How reliable are passports do you think???
 
Sorry but I think the whole passport thing is a farce. We paid a lot of money to passport our whole yard. It just happens that we have had an awful year and lost several horses (old age mainly). No vet has asked for a passport. The company that cremates them has not asked for passports. So where is the promised enhanced security. Oh and we are just keeping these vague documents, new horse who is going to know if it is roughly the same size (actally only joking but still buying passportless horses!)
 
Went to the sales with 3 black Shetlands, the Passports were looked at, but the comment by the guy checking them was......"which one it which?" I told him, he had the passports, you tell me!

We got the two old boys back with no passports.
 
Mmm this is interesting, are they easy to forge?? I got my horse in November last year, again they had only had him a year and had not changed the ownership, i look at the picture and hes alot lighter, could be young pic tho. I also had some pictures given to me of him with the previous owners and he looks as he does now (whose name was on the passport) and ive spoken to them and hes the same horse they had, well sounds like it i think ;) I think he could be older but thats just a gut feeling and then where the vet signed the second injection the place has been scribbled out and changed, could be an honest mistake. The vet I had to check him looked over his passport, i must admit I didnt notice these little things until got it home and closer examination. I was also a bit doubtful on why they were selling him, just think they weren't completely honest in a couple of ways, nothing really bad but that may be why I wondered about his passport. I love him tho :D

So are they easy to forge?? I dont think they are reliable:rolleyes:
 
I don't have a picture as such on the passport there's a silhouette which is completed by the vet. The vet also completes the written description and verrified the freezemark. The vet has to sign the declaration to certify that they've identified the horse and that everything is correct.

As for forging a passport - don't know. I'd imagine it'd be way beyond most people's abilities and unless the horse was worth mega bucks I can't imagine why anyone would to to the trouble of trying it. I'd think it would be difficult to pass a horse off with another's passport as all the body markings etc are marked on the silhouette - the horses would have to be absolutely identical in every respect even down to whorls, etc.
 
I have a picture in mine but its only stuck in so could easily be removed or changed, I did my own description of markings, think it was a waste of money considering I have 3 horses its not cheap hence why I did my own descriptions otherwise I would have had a vet bill as well. I understand the idea behind it and yes the idea is good but I think its to open to forgery.
 
Who says they have to have a passport?
My gelding was bought last may with a passport. Apparently the old owner sent it to defra because shes not the sort of person who would post it??
Then got told he was at least 2 years younger than he actually is, and said passport never found defra!
 
My horse is illegal! He is unregistered with the Haras Nationeaux and there is no record of his parents on his vaccination record (which begins when he was 4yo). This means I will never be able to compete on him, other than RS competitions :(
 
KJHorses, I thought the vet had to verify and sign the silhouette or photo unless the horse is microchipped and the number recorded on the pp, then the owner can do it. As for cost I believe its around £15 - at least that's what I paid Weatherbys.

I still can't see how a passport could be forged without some pretty professional printing equipment.
 
Daffy has his as his breed papers anyway, although two years down the line I still haven't had the ownership changed. :eek:

Apparently they aren't proof of ownership either, I think that's according to the police, so really, they don't seem very useful apart from breed purposes. :(
 
It all sounds a bit suspect to me - do you remember which issuer the passport was with??
I have filled in quite a few passport applications (before they changed the rules last Jan that a vet had to do it) and I have always had to put owners details. I dont think any legitamate passport would not hold owners details so be very suspicious.

Fraudulent passports have been around for ages! I think the first case they found was about 6 months ago, I believe people were applying for a new passport and changing the old ones to different horses. As they are all different you dont really know what one they all look like - at least with Human passports you know what a proper one looks like!. I could easily print up a passport that would look professional and if you hadnt seen one from that passport issuer before how would you know??
No matter what procedures are brought into place the crooks will find a way round it!
 
How easy to forge? Very. When I filled out the forms for Jake's passports, I could have written anything I wanted - nothing got checked out and I wasn't asked to prove I was who I said I was, or that he was who I said he was! Had he been microchipped beforehand, I could have completed his sillhouette myself without a vet to verify it was the correct horse, and as had been stated, they all look different! Jake's is a wodge of paper in a plastic sleeve from Weatherbys, and Sal's is a posh blue passport with a plastic cover and a proper spine from the Cleveland Bay Society. I have been trying to get copies of Sal's original papers from Weatherby's and I'm quite sad that I'll have to relinquish my posh passport for another paper one :eek: The only use I've found it to be has been for jabs to be written up in. I've not had to provide Sal's passport for any of the insurance claims I've made against his recent medical bills, I didn't need to show it to my YO when I bought him and moved him to our yard, and have never been asked to produce it for any reason.
 
Yes, easy perhaps to submit fraudulent information to obtain a passport I thought it was being suggested its easy to actually forge the passport document itself.
 
The passport was genuine enough, it was an Irish Wetherbys one. One problem was the ownership page was completely blank - not just the change of owner not recorded but no original owner either. I was wondering if the first owner page had simply been removed. The vaccination page had some early entries in Ireland then a big gap until a couple last year when the vets stamp was from a practice a good distance from this horse. The owner couldn't tell me where the horse had come from, who she had bought it from and had no paperwork to support any previous purchase or any vet records/bills for the last year.

I thought the horse was in very poor condition and very depressed. It seemed much older than 7 in fact I just had my TB PTS at 21 years old and he didn't seem thin anymore compared to this poor horse. The horse for sale was a standard bay TB and the description looked OK but really could be any number of bay TB's. I guess it could have been his passport but then it makes me feel even more sad because such a young horse was looking so poor.

I love TBs and particularly ex-racers and I am saddened by the way so many of these poor animals end up.
 
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