Does anyone else find this horrifying????

flashy33 said:
if someone brings iy over to me i will quite happily take it on , ...
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I admire the fact that you, flashy, have at least stepped towards the plate (which is far, far more than others have done).

Why don't you contact the owner of the horse concerned directly if you feel so strongly about the matter?

However, the fact that the horse is dangerous to handle on the ground, and you are in the south of France, largely protects you from this particular horse landing on your doorstep, doesn't it, given the export formalities involved?

Be honest about this.

Would you be so quick to offer the horse a home if you were in mainland UK? You can call our bluff, but the horse's owner is unlikely to call yours, given the geographical barriers.

BTW I sincerely hope that the horse you have who 'will rip the arm of any stranger that goes near him' is not in an area which can be legally accessed by the public ...
 
Mayoguinesss.
how does NH and kindness sort a horse with a brain tumour ???
and believe, I have seen the behaviour that comes from horses with such problems.
The attitude of such bleeding heart, it can all be fixed, people makes it so much harder for a responsible owner to make the right decision.
how will she feel if the next person who takes the horse over gets KILLED ?
would it be worse to have the death of a dangerous horse on your consience, or the death of a human, with family to mourn them.
get real.
 
Would you be so quick to offer the horse a home if you were in mainland UK? You can call our bluff, but the horse's owner is unlikely to call yours, given the geographical barriers.

simple answer yes

it was my job in uk if you can call it that , not just those ive kept myself , but many others have been through my yard who people had given up on , from the little pony that was compleatly wild in its stable that showed its fear by aggression, i had it for 2 months , 2 weeks after returning to his owners he was shod on all 4 feet without sedation or any other restriant for the 1st time ever, the andulusian 8 year old that had never been handled, and who's idea of people was those that used dogs and quads to chase it , she is now quite happy in her new home as a riding club horse , and i could tell about countless others
 
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Probably already been said, have not read all the posts, but in an ideal world, yes it could be a companion horse. But whats to say that someone one day wants to make a quick buck and sells the horse and it is then ridden, it could kill somebody.
I think it is a very brave person who finally says enough is enough and has a dangerous horse pts. Its is a position no horse owner would want to be in, but a desicion that sometimes sadly has to be made.
 
Flashy, I admire you for stepping up, as Liz says. However, if you have room for another one, I'm wondering:

a) why you haven't filled the slot already, and
b) wouldn't it be better to take on another horse or pony that's also in need of a chance, but has fewer issues and therefore a better chance of success / eventual rehoming?

I'm not having a go, so I hope it doesn't sound like I am, but for all those who say these horses need to be given a chance, I'm wondering why this horse in particular would be one you'd take on, when there are bags of horses in a similar position (and many of which aren't dangerous), who are just as much in need of a good home? In short - if you're in a position to do it, why haven't you done it already?

Other than that, I echo gingerthing etc wholeheartedly!
 
i dont go looking for horses to take on i let them find me , at one point in uk i had 15, but 2 were rehomed and 1 was sold , ive also lost 2 one to old age (39) and one to colic , so im down to 9 , i have volenteered to take on any at the rescue centre but i will not pay the money that they want for them , also i currently dont have transport .
 
flashy33 said:
, also i currently dont have transport .
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I do :) .. if you really want to help that horse (and the owner wants someone to step in) I could maybe help.. good friends of mine are transporters and run to France on a weekly basis.. a bit of fundraising to cover diesel costs and we could get him there..
 
flashy33 said:
if it could organised i would take him
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Admirable, but yet again, the trust issue - how do we know who or what you are, just from this forum? You could take him and sell him for meat, you could sell him on as a riding horse to someone who then gets killed when he bolts, you could mistreat him, starve him, beat him - this is the point, unless the owner keeps him or has him pts, there are no guarantees about his future.

If you have an animal put to sleep, you know its fate.

And, sorry, no offence to you personally, I'm sure you're lovely, I just mean that it could be anybody who took him, and his fate would be in their hands once he left the owner.

There are a handful of people I would have let my aggressive dog have gone to, but no way would I have just let a stranger off a forum have him, not knowing their credentials or seeing the results of their work.
 
blues mum said:
Mayoguinesss.
how does NH and kindness sort a horse with a brain tumour ???
and believe, I have seen the behaviour that comes from horses with such problems.
The attitude of such bleeding heart, it can all be fixed, people makes it so much harder for a responsible owner to make the right decision.
how will she feel if the next person who takes the horse over gets KILLED ?
would it be worse to have the death of a dangerous horse on your consience, or the death of a human, with family to mourn them.
get real.
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A very pertinent point. I too have seen the results of brain tumours and other cranial conditions such as bleeds and problems with the cerebrospinal system in large animals; the irregular violent incidents which can result may recur intermittently for years and years are usually horrifically-frightening to both the victim animal and the humans involved. Due to the size of the animal's head and the density of the bony structures, diagnosis is usually impossible until post-mortem.

I notice that no-one has mentioned the insurance implications of keeping a horse which is known to be dangerous, either ...
 
I have stayed away from this thread although I have been in the position of making this choice twice in my life.

We do sometimes work with 'difficult' and 'challenging' horses. One current project did the most spectular upright rears and would throw herself squealing to the ground if pushed out of her comfort zone , in the beginning virtually everywhere. But you could sense the improvement in her little by little so we are still working with her and there are now more good times than bad. that to me defines a behaviour problem which can be resolved.

Contrast a horse from a similar background I rode when I was younger. He was totally unpredictable both on the ground and under saddle. When he 'lost the plot' which could be once a month or several times in a day he was a danger to himself and others, on three occasions he threw himself into fenland drainage dykes, needing rescuing from drowning on each occasion. His owner after a while bravely made the decision to have him pts and in the post mortem a very large brain tumour was found

We also more recently had a pony who was fairly aggressive but handleable when kept only with his best friend and handled together. Sadly the best friend had a tumour on the lung and after she was pts the gelding became so aggressive he endangered anyone trying to handle him in any way, or even being within his reach, so sadly although he seemed physically healthy we made the decision to have him pts.

In neither case would it have been safe or sensible to have passed the horse on to anyone else no matter how well intentioned.
 
Ginger Thing said:
Admirable, but yet again, the trust issue - how do we know who or what you are, just from this forum? You could take him and sell him for meat, you could sell him on as a riding horse to someone who then gets killed when he bolts, you could mistreat him, starve him, beat him - this is the point, unless the owner keeps him or has him pts, there are no guarantees about his future.

If you have an animal put to sleep, you know its fate.

And, sorry, no offence to you personally, I'm sure you're lovely, I just mean that it could be anybody who took him, and his fate would be in their hands once he left the owner.

There are a handful of people I would have let my aggressive dog have gone to, but no way would I have just let a stranger off a forum have him, not knowing their credentials or seeing the results of their work.
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just to add if refrences were required these would certainly give one as i have a horse anne bred when she was still a stud http://www.ascothorserehabilitation.co.uk/
 
diamonddogs said:
Oh perleease. We're not talking about a naughty horse here - we're talking about a potential killer. And before you say any more, potential (human) killers do tend to get locked up in this country, for a very long time.

Let's just suppose for a minute that we have the farrier trimming his feet when there's another episode, and the farrier dies as a result (quite possible since farriers work at the sharp end of horses).

Not only does this lady have to carry the guilt around for the rest of her life, she probably gets sued into the bargain.
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Humans create human rules; killing is not a crime for a horse, nor is it ever an intention.

Kis Vihar said:
Puzzles...Does incurable emotional pain count?
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Yes, I agree that it does. But again, I think a horse should only be put to sleep if it is very unlikely to heal and the pain is very bad.

Joyscarer said:
A 'naughty' child out to kill and cause mayhem for whatever motive would be put in a secure setting where it was unable to harm others.
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Horses are no more out to kill anyone than children are. Yet in this situation, I don't see the horse as justifiably being condemmed as beign anything more than 'naughty'.

It is us who make horses live amongst us and abide by our rules, so it it therefore our responsibility that the animal never feels the need to defend and protect itself to the point of killing someone. For example, in an owner's eyes her horse is only being shod. But from the horse's perspective his life could be in danger, so he does everything he can to escape and, if he is restrained, he will be forced to fight. I honestly do not blame the horse. It is only doing what it sees as being absolutely necessary to save it's life. It's simply ridiculous to expect a horse to live and think like a human; it never can nor will.

I often find that owners have their horses put to sleep due to difficult cricumstanc,es in that they cannot deal with the situation be it due to lack of experience, money or 'opportunities'. However I remain certian in the believe that no horse is incurable when it comes to emotional problems. Surely a suitable NH home with an owner who is experienced and with the right attitiude and resources, could help? I just don't think it is ever justified to kill a horse for the mere reason that it is extremely unhappy ... though I am sure such owners will argue to the death against this view, and very understandably, with good reason. I don't see this as being naiive: how wrong can it be argued, to give a horse every possible chance of being happy and healthy? This is being naiive, only hopeful and putting a lot of effort in, rather than the alternative quick fix.

Flashy - believe me, if I were the right person and not 17 years old with very little personal income, I would honestly take such a horse on! Before being so judgemental and assuming of people you do not know, I currently have 3 rescue dogs in a small home, all of which are difficult to manage, and all of whom were on the brink of being put down because noone else could be bothered to even try to make them happy. They are not all 'cured', or perfect, but we never gave up on them. They heal a bit more every day, are very much loved and I am sure that they are happy. I am sorry if I come across as being rude, but I do feel very strongly about this! So I do understand your point Gingerthing.

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But this isn't self preservation the horse bolts THROUGH fences it makes no attempt to jump them. It is also not just about the owner being hurt what if the horse bolts into something and seriously damages itself in the process as well as its owner it could die a slow and horrific death. Have you ever seen the result of a horse going head on into a car? i've seen pictures and they were bad enough. I agree most horses don't think 'ooh i'm going to kill you' but the point is this horse doesn't think full stop. A switch is flipped for no apparent reason and the horse is dangerous.
We had a mare who bolted through fear and because she had raced the difference being was there was method in her madness she bolted when she got onto an open stretch of grass so my mum worked on that and she was a changed horse and i hacked her out at the age of 9. This horse has no method no reasoning you can try to understand the horse all you want but if the horse has no specific triggers then you can't change it.

ETA i still stand by the opinion that and suitably experienced horseperson would have the common sense to PTS
 
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Liz1949 said:
How DARE you equate a damaged and ill human, horse or other animal, with mere 'naughtiness'?

Please get a dictionary and look up the word 'naughty' - you might then understand that you are being extremely offensive to those unfortunate people who have had to make the awful decision to euthanase animals or put children or adults for whom they are responsible, into institutional care, when they could no longer give them a safe and secure home. Taking responsibility is about the bad times as well as the good, not about passing on the problem to this mythical 'someone else' who will magically solve all problems.

Get real.
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I think that asking someone else for help is taking responsibility. I am not saying that putting an animal to sleep is wrong, only that I think there are often better options. I myself have put animals down and I know it's a very difficult and tarumatic decision for anyone to make.
And just to add for those who don't know, I don't believe in 'naughty' behaviour by the definition of an animal being deliberately or knowingly difficult. I think there is always a perfectly justifiable reason for a horse's behaviour, even if just in his eyes: be is a brain tumour. I was not referring to disabilities, only so-called 'bad' behaviour.
What I am saying is, while one wouldn't put a disabled person to sleep, a suitable, caring home may be a very good option if relations cannot provide this personally. As far as I'm concerned this argument is about dealing with horse behaviour, and I don't see why horses cannot be cared for in the same way as humans, as above.
I'm not trying to be offensive or rude at all. :o So apologies to anyone offended.

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dangerous disabled people, are kept in strict institutions and medicated up to the eyeballs with no contact with the general public.

this obviously isnt possible for horses- ACP and other calmers/sedation are overrode by adrenaline, and been kept in isolation is nigh on impossible and frankly adds to the mental torture that any horse who needs this is suffering.

a horse as described by OP isnt naughty- there is a relatively obvious underlying medical problem as well as any bad treatment that may have increased the severity of it.
 
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