Does anyone else find this horrifying????

I own a 21 yr old.
he used to be my loan horse, but I handed him back when his history of problems made him unsuitable for me.
however I continued to look after him as he was stabled with my new horse, and his owner had no time or interest in him.
last year she decided to sell him, but after riding him she decided that she would be unable to sell him as a ridden horse and was going to give him away as a companion horse.
I begged her not to do this, as he is a stunning horse to look at,(palomino tb/welsh D cross) and could easily be buted up and sold on as a riding horse,
I felt that she could be setting him up for years of pain. I asked her to consider PTS as the more humane option, but she would not consider it.
A horse has no idea they are going to be PTS , they do not spend hours agonising over it, to them they just are what they are, and then they are no more.
surely sometimes to just be no more is a kinder option than neglected or mis treated ?
People just cannot afford to keep horses that are un usable, they still cost a huge amount just to keep in retirement.
feet, teeth, tetenus jabs, feed.
maybe it is better to just cease to exist, than to be neglected.
I write this with great feeling, as I now own the horse I write about, and he does cost me a considerable amount, I also feel he gets bored, we go for walks in hand and I am considering teaching him to drive.
But I will never pass him on to any one else, because how can I know that they will treat him with the respect he deserves?? He has days when he would like nothing better than a gentle ride , but then days where every thing aches so badly he needs to be given a wide berth.
When I can no longer afford to keep him, if this credit crunch bites so badly it becomes a choice between him or my home, he will be put to sleep.
in his own surroundings, peacefully.
And i will know that I have done the best thing for him
 
Pale Moon said:
You are all absolutely right.

My main reason for putting this post up, was because I wanted other people's opinions on the subject. When I first read it, I was absolutely horrified, but now, reading other's opinions and experiences of having an animal that had major problems, I understand.

Life is not always "black and white" - the trouble with being an animal lover is that sometimes you have trouble seeing the grey areas - I myself just saw a potentially healthy animal potentially PTS - I didn't examine it any more deeply than that, but I am really glad now that I did ask for opinions here, because it has made me see that keeping an animal alive just because it is healthy is not always the best thing.

Thanks to everyone for their input and replies... I sincerely hope that noone thinks badly of me for my original post... I now have the knowledge and insight from other people's experiences to know that sometimes, maybe, going down that route is the only way.

Rachel
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What a refreshing change on this forum - someone having an opinion, asking for the opinion of others and actually listening to them, and even changing her mind! :)

So different from all the threads that have people banging their heads against the wall,when someone asks for opinions/advice and still refuses to consider alternative points of view.

I have completely changed my mind on lots of issues, horsey and otherwise, its good to find things out and debate the pro's and con's, and make informed choices and decisions. I know lots of people would disagree with me on lots of things, but know if I make a decision on anything, it will be after full research and consideration.

Well done, Pale Moon, on an interesting thread that hasn't degenerated into arguments or been closed :)
 
Chelsea_Skye said:
If that was my horse I would keep it as long as I was financially able. And then put it to sleep if I was unable to keep it any longer.

In my opinion, horses are more than objects to be ridden. Just because he can't be ridden, does not mean he needs a bullet in his head.
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I heartily agree with your first sentence, but the debate isn't about whether she should shoot a horse she can't ride. It's about keeping alive a horse that's a danger to humans and itself, that could well have a brain tumour, judging by other posters' stories.

It could have killed her when she was quietly walking it in hand.

The animal is a pyscho, and will surely kill someone or itself sooner rather than later.
 
Have only skimmed through some of the later posts so sorry in advance for stepping on other toes. Oh and well done pale moon for being open to other opinions even though they were a complete contrast to your original thoughts.

My opinion is this...

A horse would never intentionally hurt anyone. So there must have been a reason for its initial reaction, but then some horses that gets so ingrained, you can never 'fix' it afterwards.

My thought are that there are hundreds and hundred of horses and ponies that get sent to meat/markets/rescue centers/dumped etc etc that have a heart of gold and have spent their entire life trying to please their owners. If someone is willing to give a companion home to a horse then i believe it should be one of these 1st and foremost, they've earned it!

(taking a step back and looking at this cold) A horse is first and foremost a working animal and has a job to do, whether that be competition, haulage, hacking etc. Yes, most owners get sentimental about them (how can you not!) and think of them more than that but that iis the bottom line. If a horse is unable to do a job, It going to have a life passed from pillar to post thrashed or forced to do that job or slaughtered to get money out of it. Its not nice, so if the horse was unable to do a job and didn't have the security of a forever home, then why not let it be put down with his head in a bucket of feed in his own field! that way, the owner can move on a give a horse that is better for her and safer, does the job. And the last ever thing that horse knew was a mouthfull of feed (which, lets face it, is on the horses mind pretty 59 mins in every hour!).

In my opinion its a very responsible move and if she is willing to do it then i respect her. She would lose money which says a lot. There are far more deserving horses that could do the job and you are not leaving him to an uncertain future. just my opinion.
 
I'd never have a horse put down for a problem such as that. My friend has "rescued" a number horses otherwise going to be pts because of behavioural problems and a lot of the time its simply the human not reading the signs the horse is constantly giving them so when the horse snaps it seems out of the blue. My own horse was always one for bolting, sometimes he was fine, other times he would just "go". We went back to basics and sorted it out through just using a rope headcollar and teaching him to flex to a stop, making sure before and during the ride he was "with me" and concentrating on me not anythng else, flexing very lightly etc. So if he I felt his attention leave I could bring him back to focusing on me, not on running away. It turned out he never "just" bolted, he warnd me of how he was feeling a long time before but I just never noticed. It worked well. Most behavioural problems are caused by the human and need to be fixed with the human, its just a shame when the horse ends up paying. My mare at her first home was thought to be crazy, shes just very sensitive in truth and needs understanding.
I don't think any horse is more or less deserving of a good home, some are just more misunderstood than others.

I do get what people are saying, if the horse is sold on at some point as a safe riding horse then it is dangerous but they're are experienced caring people out there, willing to give a horse a home for life even if they do have problems. I've met plenty of people such as this.
 
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Its a difficult one to answer without knowing the FULL details. If there was
a chance of maybe giving this horse a 'lifetime' home where it would be well looked after but not ridden then fine that would be great.

However, we all know that circumstances change and if there was the remotest of possibilities that this horse could be sold on and then along the
line somebody attempt to 'ride' it with the possibility of getting injured, not great. Also the fact that the Horse can be dangerous to 'handle' would leave a big ? on where and who it may end up with.

Personally, If it was mine and I had explored all health issues as this Owner seems to have done, I would PTS safe in the knowledge that this Horse is then put out of its 'misery' and not sent on to an unknown future.

Very Sad, I feel for her. However its a very personal decision and not one I would like to be making tbh.
 
Agree there are alot of people who will work with damaged horses just not enough. You say you've met plenty, in my whole lifetime of horses I've only met one. The rest are of the opinion tie it down and show it who's boss.

Odds are stacked against horses like the aforementioned, he is a big horse. Not many people would want such a companion for their horse when they could get a pony a good doer, much cheaper, easier, not so much money on care rugs,feed etc. Especially now considering this climate and the fact that alot of people can no longer keep their horses. Horses like him have even less of a chance. He has the care he needs, so he doesn't need an animal sanctuary, abused horses do.

I'm afraid it's a one in ten chance for poor horses like him to get a decent home. Reality is he'd probably end up suffering. Yes some horses come right but not all, brain tumours etc also not all horses respond well to NH methods either, so it's not the answer too all. As I have said before I would rather see a horses life end peacefully, than see the damaged that it would be caused otherwise.
 
I would agree after reading the post on the other forum best thing to do would be to PTS. Forever loving homes where you are guarenteed the horse will never be ridden are few and far between, especially now with the credit crunch. It might have a brain tumour, my mum had a lovely retired greyhound who occasionally used to growl at my sister, he was a sweetheart most of the time, but was TPS after he jumped at her and bit her arm. He had a brain tumour so there was nothign that could of been done. If this horse has a tumour chances are his behaviour could worsen to the point where he is dangerous on the ground too.
 
He is dangerous on the ground - he double barrelled her and broke her collarbone (frightening when you think how close that is to your head) while she was leading him quietly, which is why the whole euthanasia thing is being discussed.
 
I don't personally think anyone has the rihgt to put a horse to sleep unless he horse is in incurable, or in unbearable pain for a fair length of time.
Horses can always be healed and changed. If their current home can't, then someone else can.

Would you have your a very naughty child put to sleep?!

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Puzzles...Does incurable emotional pain count? I think it does.

Regarding the mare we had PTS....We WERE her last chance. I was not prepared to let her kill me, my friends, my staff, my students or my other horses..... OR anyone else. I've never enountered a horse like her. And we've had loads and LOADS in for training, schooling, backing, behavioural problems, mis-treated, starved, beaten, etc. She would just 'explode' for no reason, and once she was 'in attack mode' there was no stopping her. She obliterated everything in her path. If she wanted to try and kill someone/something and there was an object in her way....it didn't last too long.

We got her from the meat-dealer. I think she had been sent there for a reason. Many others had 'tried' with her and had failed.

I think there's a slight difference between a naughty child and an 800kg horse trying to kill everything and everyone in its path. Naughty children cannot kill you.

The only way to 'heal' this mare was to release her from her mental torment. Believe me, I thought I'd seen everything regarding behavioral problems. The more I read on here, the more I wonder if she had a brain tumour. It would explain a lot.
 
Oh perleease. We're not talking about a naughty horse here - we're talking about a potential killer. And before you say any more, potential (human) killers do tend to get locked up in this country, for a very long time.

Let's just suppose for a minute that we have the farrier trimming his feet when there's another episode, and the farrier dies as a result (quite possible since farriers work at the sharp end of horses).

Not only does this lady have to carry the guilt around for the rest of her life, she probably gets sued into the bargain.
 
diamonddogs...our farrier wouldn't touch our mare. And if he had agreed to, we would not have let him near her. We couldn't have someone's death on our conscience because of this mare. She wasn't naughty. She was bordering on evil. As I said, something I've never in nearly 30 years of having horses/training horses/working with horses encountered, and don't want to ever again.
 
Kis Vihar said:
I just wanted to add, that despite the 'unfortunate' and sad topic, this really has become an interesting and very mature debate. Thanks Pale Moon for instigating the discussion, It's made a lot of people think.
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You're welcome - its a nice feeling to get something right for once!!:) I'm usually opening my gob and stuffing both feet in!!!:D
 
puzzles said:
Would you have your a very naughty child put to sleep?!

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Not a strong analogy I'm afraid.

A 'naughty' child out to kill and cause mayhem for whatever motive would be put in a secure setting where it was unable to harm others.

How many places like this are available to horses?
 
Asima said:
I don't think it's horrific, I think it's responsible. I'd rather them peacefully be put down than have to go through any of the above. Giving it to a sanctuary is only taking up spaces for more needy horses and it's not going to change anything. What if it injures them badly, what about the other horses. It's human feelings above horse's. Keeping a horse alive because it's what we feel is right, then offloading them and possibly causing them horrific suffering is ten times worse than allowing it to be happy for a few months and leave this earth happy, content and painless.
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Nicely put Asima, agree 100%; in the situation that PM discusses to PTS would be my choice also. As owners we have ultimate resposibility for the animals welfare, and that includes what life we sell the horse on to.
 
If I had a horse like that I would put it to sleep than ever risk it falling into the hands of the innocent.

If anything happened to me and the horse was sold or put through the sales it could kill someone.

but more importantly to me, nobody can ever hurt him and he is at peace.
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In a nutshell Ginger Thing.
 
I agree with the sentiment that a dangerous horse should be PTS if no other options exist to the owner. Sometimes the behaviour is due to the way the horse is treated or ridden and with work from a skilled horseperson some problems are resolvable. However, some horses are beyond such help and are plain dangerous and then its a responsible owner who faces reality and makes the decision to have the horse PTS, rather than wait until after a serious accident.
I suppose the problem lies in what the definition of 'dangerous and untreatable' actually is. Friend with 37 years in the saddle, a jockey in New York and Maimi, had ridden some nutters over the years, witnessed a grooms' nose bitten off and had many other such scary stories- never found a horse to give up on til she met a little chestnut TB, several broken bones later and almost kissing the bonnet of an HGV as the brakes slammed on..decided this horse should never be ridden or handled by anyone. Unfortunately, she had it on loan from a dealer, who took it back and sold it to a lady and her daughters. Now thats horrifying.
 
Horses are big potentially dangerous animals and I think that in the situation described here I would have the horse PTS.

I would hate for the horse to end up being beaten or worse and I would hate for someone else to be seriously hurt if I knowingly sold on a horse with issues.

We all readily accept that some humans are just bad - they aren't wired properly - why not horses?? Who knows what we are doing with all the close breeding that goes on in certain breeds? Why shouldn't that cause mental health issue the same as it does in other species?
 
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