dun/buckskin from a grey

ponylover88

ponylover88

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Jul 12, 2004
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So i didnt hijack PGG's thread anymore than i already have done...

My mare Gemma is a grey conny x tb. Shes got black skin, her dad was bay (have a pic of him) but i dont know about her mum.
She was born 'black' but greyed out to dapple grey now.

What would the chances be of her throwing a buckskin/dun if i were to put her in foal? - Would prefer the stallion to be a connemara.
 
hi think i am right in saying that because you know the sire is bay your mare's dam must of been grey which means that there is a 50/50 chance of her producing a non-grey foal. I have a mare who is grey and was put to a bay nearly black stallion and she has produced a golden dun filly (buckskin). Chev correct me if i am wrong still learning about these genetics!! My stallion has been put to 2 of my grey mares which are due end of march will be interesting to see what colour the foals turn out
 
Ohhhh so theres a small chance she may throw a buckskin! :D

Would i need to put her to a bay/black with cream to get a buckskin possibility, or finding a conny buckskin work just as well?
 
not sure thats a question for chev all i can say is that my stallion has thrown alot of golden duns (buckskin) and dark duns (buckskin) he is carrying the cream gene so he must pass that on quite alot. The mare that produced my buckskin is carrying the cream gene thats why i have to sell her because i could get a blue eyed cream if i put her to my stallion, which i don't have a problem with but aren't overly accepeted in the connemara society (silly i know).
 
I would PM chev if she is about as she is an authority on genetic and breeding she knows LOADS!!!!!

Give her a buzz and see what she says.

Nikki xxxx
 
Connies do carry cream, but won't register double dilutes (like cremello) which would be your best chance of breeding a buckskin.

From the pic you posted on the other thread I'd say your mare was born dark bay. So we know she has at least one black and one bay allele - possibly two. She also has one grey.

The best chance you have is to use a double dilute stallion (Perlino would give you the best chances - guaranteed dilute, and a high chance of bay + dilute - guaranteed if the stallion is also homozygous bay + black) although there would still be a 50% chance of the foal ending up grey.

Using a buckskin will give a 50% chance that the dilute will be passed on, and unless one or both parents are homozygous for bay and black, at best a 50% chance the foal would be bay based (so 25% chance of buckskin overall... I think... tis late and my brain is tired! :o )
 
So theres not going/unlikely to be a double dilute connemara stallion around then? Gems registered as a sport horse of GB, and has the fact that shes good enough to be bred (or something along them lines) in it. However, her lines arent perfect - her sires tb and her dam is mainly conny with some tb in her.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/maes+seren

Her mum has a history of what could be buckskin on the Carna Dun lines. Unfortunately doesnt say what colour her mum or grand dam is.
 
The Connemara society won't register 'blue-eyed creams' (in other words, double dilutes) so no, chance is you won't find a registered double dilute Connie :(

Your mare's sire is bay, so no dilute there.

It's just possible the dilute has been passed down through the damline... but the pics don't look like a dilute foal, so I'd guess she doesn't carry cream herself.
 
Shame, is there any way a horse can carry the cream, just not show it?
For her to be grey, would her mum need to be grey, or could two bays (for example) throw a grey with the right genetics?

Also, just a thought, would weatherbys allow a double dilute? - Would rather keep the conny x tb than go into another breed altogether, but preferably a connemara. - Is there even a slim chance theres an unregistered double dilute conny stallion out there?
 
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Yes, her mum woul definitely be grey for her to be grey. Genetics don't 'skip' generations. If you have a grey, one thing you can guarantee is that at leats one parent must have been grey!

Cream will always show up - chestnut based horses become palomino, bay based are buckskin. The only exception is black horses that carry cream - because one cream gene really only dilutes red pigment, some blacks carrying cream don't show the effect of the gene - they're either black, or near-black. That's just possible, but the only way to say for sure would be to have her genetically tested (which is easy - send off a sample of tail hair with roots, pay a nominal fee, and they'll tell you what color she is genetically).

I have no idea if double dilutes are registerable with Wethrebys, sorry. They have recently registered a loud sabino, so there's always hope... :D Best bet would be to contact them and ask.

Couldn't honestly help with unregistered Connie double dilutes either sorry. I would say though, that for the sake of colour, I wouldn't use an unregistered stallion. Breeding for colour really isn't worth that. There are a fair few good Buckskin Connie stallions out there, fully papered - for the sake of coat colour, I'd honestly rather use one of them.

I love colour, and colour genetics... but I really don't think that colour is worth breeding for without papers in that respect.
 
you could have her cream gene tested it's not very expensive then you would know whether she is carrying the cream gene. If your interested in connemaras visit my website she seems to have good breeding in her carna dun was a very nice stallion. I think that is why there is a lack of variety of colours in the connies because people are so frightened of getting a blue eyed cream so they stick to solid colours which is soooo silly, i breed for temeperament and type but i am trying to produce a more variety of colour ie chestnut, bay, dun, black because this is lacked in the connemara breed
 
He looks lovely Clare, he looks like a chunky type too - which would be a definate thing i'd need as im long legged! Gems chunky considering the amount of tb in her blood - got an x wide saddle and shes just under 15hh!

I see on the progency hes been bred to a grey and thrown a lovely dun/buckskin. Nice to know its possible!

Nikki - i would prefer it to be a conny stud as shes a conny x tb but i wouldnt mind tb as a last resort (just would rather use conny) but overall, id rather not inc another breed if i really dont have too. Its been proven by Gem that conny x tb is a lovely breed, but she honestly acts full connemara, hence why id rather go down the conny route.

Was just a thought. I dont think Gems registered with the connemara society, but that will be because she was bred with a tb i suppose. If i bred her to a conny would they register a 3/4 conny 1/4 tb?

That's just possible, but the only way to say for sure would be to have her genetically tested (which is easy - send off a sample of tail hair with roots,
Click to expand...

When we first got her, that would have been more tempting than it is now! She rubbed her tail something rotten then due to nerves, hasnt done it for months now and her tails growing out! That would mean pulling her tail (i know just a few strands) ... dont know if she' let me for a start, although i highly doubt she'd mind.
 
Seems the UK one would be a better choice, and it gives good explanations. Although, on the website is says all tests are £16, but you go on to the form and it says £19!
What tests would i need done, at £19 each i cant afford them all!
Lethal white (definately something i would go to any extreme to avoid)

Whats Hyperkalemic Period Paralysis? Is that something needing to be tested for too?

Obviously the cream dilution ... anything else?
 
You definitely don't need lethal white done - that's a test to see if a horse carries frame (an overo pattern) since homozygous frame foals die at or soon after birth, so breeders need to know a horse is not minimal frame before breeding it to another frame. Only an issue if you breed Frame Overos, which she clearly isn't! :)

HYPP is a genetic disorder affecting Quarter Horses - so again, definitely not something you'd need to worry about.

The three tests you'd want if you were breeding for buckskins would be red factor (shows whether or not the horse carries chestnut - if not, they're homozygous for black), Agouti (shows whether a horse carries bay, and whether or not they're homozygous for it) and cream. Knowing those would mean you could work out the exact odds of her throwing buckskin to a particular stallion.

But to be honest, I'd only test her for cream, and that would be out of interest to see if she was black with cream rather than dark bay.

And if she does have cream, the real pain is that there'd still be the same chance of her throwing buckskin to a buckskin stallion as there are if she doesn't have cream!

Buckskin x non-buckskin = 50% chance of single cream dilute, 50% chance no dilute.

Buckskin x buckskin = 25% chance non-dilute, 25% chance double dilute... and still 50% chance single cream dilute!
 
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