I know that Lusitanos and Andalusians have cream so they do have Buckskin horses but do they have Dun as well?
'Dun' in Iberian Horses
- Thread starter helenc
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What is the difference between Buckskin and Dun? Just I thought I'd met a dun Lusitano at the weekend, but now I think of it he could have been Bucksin as I don't know the difference 
Duns should have a dorsal stripe as well as black points, mane & tail whereas buckskins have all the same black points, mane & tail but no dorsal stripe
Yes, dun and buckskin and some other variaties like grullo exist in Lusitanos (I am no expert on spanish horses, so I won't say anything about Andalusians, I only know that they excluded chestnuts from the studbook for a long time, while the Lusitano studbook never excluded colours).
The biggest problem with the dilutes is that we don't have seperate names for them. Both buckskin and dun is "baio". Same goes for perlino, champagne and cremello, they are ALL called "isabel". No-one keeps track of which base colour they have, so it is very difficult to know which is which, some times, especially if they are intermixed. Same goes for smokey black and other variaties, they are simply not put apart. You will find them all, for sure, but not on paper
If you are thinking about buying one, I can certainly help you.
I live in Portugal.
The biggest problem with the dilutes is that we don't have seperate names for them. Both buckskin and dun is "baio". Same goes for perlino, champagne and cremello, they are ALL called "isabel". No-one keeps track of which base colour they have, so it is very difficult to know which is which, some times, especially if they are intermixed
. Same goes for smokey black and other variaties, they are simply not put apart. You will find them all, for sure, but not on paperIf you are thinking about buying one, I can certainly help you.
I live in Portugal.
Oooh Lusitana, that is not funny, I have always wanted a Lusitano. I currently have an "Isabella" Criollo (passport says so anyway) who is lovely but not a Lusitano
I THINK he was dun - he looked a lot like the dun one igloo posted actually but I would have to see him again to make sure I didn't imagine the dorsal stripe. He was so gorgeous though - I ended up having a huge converstaion with his owner (she'd imported him as a 6 month old) and I think she was flattered to have someone so interested in him.
Is there any difference in the actual colouring of a buckskin and a dun?
Is there any difference in the actual colouring of a buckskin and a dun?
You can find from "yellow" to "light brown" in both. So that is not an idication.
There is also this "baio":
And this (with zebra striping):
And this:
And many, many others...
And I would like to share these pics as well with examples of "isabel":
Herd with stallion (behind one of the mares)
Most Lusitanos love attention, males especially. They are very sweet by nature. I understand why you were charmed by him.
There is also this "baio":
And this (with zebra striping):
And this:
And many, many others...
And I would like to share these pics as well with examples of "isabel":
Herd with stallion (behind one of the mares)
Most Lusitanos love attention, males especially. They are very sweet by nature. I understand why you were charmed by him.
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Theres a difference in genes. I think dun is a gene in itself where as buckskin is the result of one cream gene on bay.
What is the difference between Buckskin and Dun? Just I thought I'd met a dun Lusitano at the weekend, but now I think of it he could have been Bucksin as I don't know the difference
Try this thread for more detail on the differences between dun and cream (and buckskin).
Yes I am thinking of buying one
but unfortunately not for the time being, am in the process of moving house at the min & that has to come first, may be a couple of years until I can afford one
I breed dilute Lusitanos..
The only registered dun/grullo PRE stallion in the UK is called Mejicano XXIX and owned by Mandy Wheatcroft of Mill Park Andalusians.
http://www.millpark-andalusians.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=34
I have a friend selling a red dun Lusitano stallion.
The dun colouration is present in both the Lusitano and the PRE but rarer in the latter. UC Davis are developing a test for dun, but it is not yet available for horses of Iberian descent as the dun colouration appears to sit on a different genetic marker to other breeds.
Most 'duns' of Iberian origin in the UK are buckskin i.e. bay plus the cream gene.
The only registered dun/grullo PRE stallion in the UK is called Mejicano XXIX and owned by Mandy Wheatcroft of Mill Park Andalusians.
http://www.millpark-andalusians.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=34
I have a friend selling a red dun Lusitano stallion.
The dun colouration is present in both the Lusitano and the PRE but rarer in the latter. UC Davis are developing a test for dun, but it is not yet available for horses of Iberian descent as the dun colouration appears to sit on a different genetic marker to other breeds.
Most 'duns' of Iberian origin in the UK are buckskin i.e. bay plus the cream gene.
'Dun ' in Iberian Horses
I have a lovely 3 year old rising four by Mandy Weatcroft's stallion Mejicano. He is the most lovely Dun colour I have ever seen with really black points.
He shows such natural balance and is full of prescence without being naughty. He can passage and Piaffe for fun. something we have seen when he is showing off in the field. He is also so gentle with the other youngsters.
It's a real shame that I am having to sell him through work commitments.
I have a lovely 3 year old rising four by Mandy Weatcroft's stallion Mejicano. He is the most lovely Dun colour I have ever seen with really black points.
He shows such natural balance and is full of prescence without being naughty. He can passage and Piaffe for fun. something we have seen when he is showing off in the field. He is also so gentle with the other youngsters.
It's a real shame that I am having to sell him through work commitments.
I have a dun 2yr old partbred gelding by Mejicano. He is a bay based dun and his coat is a sort of golden colour.
Two of my mares have produced greying dun foals this year by my stallion. There is a theory that the grey gene brings out the primitive markings and that they are not really dun, but I have seen a lot of Mandy's foals and mine are definately dun. I also know of quite a few PRE breeders who have horses, with primitive markings, that are not greying. I don't suppose we'll know for sure what's going on until they develop the dun test for Iberians.
I'll try to attach a photo of one of my foals.
Two of my mares have produced greying dun foals this year by my stallion. There is a theory that the grey gene brings out the primitive markings and that they are not really dun, but I have seen a lot of Mandy's foals and mine are definately dun. I also know of quite a few PRE breeders who have horses, with primitive markings, that are not greying. I don't suppose we'll know for sure what's going on until they develop the dun test for Iberians.
I'll try to attach a photo of one of my foals.
Attachments
Primitive markings doth not a dun make!
Mejicano is indeed a grullo/black dun. I have no idea if he is homozygous or heterozygous for the dun gene and as there is no test - don't know!
Agouti also produces countershading very much like the pattern found in dun horses.
I have seen chestnut Arab foals born with clear dorsals and there is absolutely no dilution genes in the Arab whatsoever!
Chev and my favourite site for duns and also some interesting photos and text on false dun colouration.
http://www.duncentralstation.com/DunArticles.html
My worry is that there are some less knowledgable breeders of PRE who decribe and sell every foal with a leg bar and dorsal as a dun! Many of these are countershaded bays and many foals are born with primitive markings that disappear as the foal ages, think new-born fawn...
Wish they would hurry up and isolate that marker for Iberians. I want a dun Luso and would be happy with a Sorraia, but may have to stick to the cream gene for funky coloured Lusos...
Mejicano is indeed a grullo/black dun. I have no idea if he is homozygous or heterozygous for the dun gene and as there is no test - don't know!
Agouti also produces countershading very much like the pattern found in dun horses.
I have seen chestnut Arab foals born with clear dorsals and there is absolutely no dilution genes in the Arab whatsoever!
Chev and my favourite site for duns and also some interesting photos and text on false dun colouration.
http://www.duncentralstation.com/DunArticles.html
My worry is that there are some less knowledgable breeders of PRE who decribe and sell every foal with a leg bar and dorsal as a dun! Many of these are countershaded bays and many foals are born with primitive markings that disappear as the foal ages, think new-born fawn...
Wish they would hurry up and isolate that marker for Iberians. I want a dun Luso and would be happy with a Sorraia, but may have to stick to the cream gene for funky coloured Lusos...
Primitive markings doth not a dun make!
I have seen chestnut Arab foals born with clear dorsals and there is absolutely no dilution genes in the Arab whatsoever!
My Chestnut Arab has a very clear dorsal stripe
I have a non-greying PRE yearling colt who had leg barring as a foal and a dorsal stripe. He now has creamy inner ear hair and brown highlights in his mane and tail. He still has his dorsal stripe, but has dispensed with the leg barring and developed shoulder bars and a darker face! Apart from that he is bay! I'm hoping time will tell.
I agree. I wish they would hurry up with the dun test for Iberians. I sometimes think they've given up!
I agree. I wish they would hurry up with the dun test for Iberians. I sometimes think they've given up!
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