Dun or Bay & Leopard/ Near Leopard Appaloosa?

[gypsygold]

Mainly I would like to know how you decide whether a leopard spot is bay leopard or dun/buckskin leopard?

My appy was imported as a red leopard (chestnut base) which I have decided he isn't as his mane and tail are black and white hairs and his lower legs have black spots as well as some 'varnishing?' His spots are mostly very chestnut coloured on his face and most of his body with some darker around his lower neck and shoulder and a few darker (very dark brown) behind the saddle area. Is he bay or dun leopard?

Also is he actually leopard or near leopard - dspite having read lots of definitions I cant decide. He has metallic looking varnishing to his lower legs but black spots also. He does have some roan hairs but only lighly roaned around his girth in winter and on his ears all year round. Someone said he had pink ears! I will try to add pics now on next post.

 

[Jen_e_Jen]

Does he have black in any of the normal black points for a bay(nose, ears, legs)?

 

[gypsygold]

Here you can see a couple of much darker spots just behind the saddle area (by the trailer spare wheel)!

I always assumed he was bay leopard but got me thinking what a funny type of bay (base colour) he would be if I took all the white away!

 

[gypsygold]

Although his ears are 'pink' the tips are darker - you may just see in 2nd photo. Spots on his legs are black and his nose is "mottled'"

 

[greasedweasel]

Nice boy! Where did he come from? He's leopard (IMO) though may have started out near leopard. For me he would have to have dark head, legs and neck to be near leopard.

Hmmm bay, dun or buckskin? Difficult to tell from looking alone. The gene that makes them spotty can muck about with how the base colour looks. I have regularly met "dun spotties" that couldn't of been genetically, but yes they looked it! So my gut feeling is bay, though I wouldn't be surprised if he was dun.... do we know about parents colours? (if they are registered correctly!!) You could test for creme? And rule or confirm buckskin.

 

[gypsygold]

Thanks he is a nice boy - most of the time

He came from France. As the story goes- apparantly from a stud owned by a chap called Michel that breeds appaloosas for parade(show?) and endurance. He came over as an entire 2yr old but unfortunately without papers. Although supposedly well bred they didnt want him as his spots didnt develop properly - they are too freckly.They gave him chance for his spots to develop - 2yrs before they decided to let him go - so I guess he was near- leopard to start? My question was why not geld him and then let him go with his papers but apparantly they dont want the inferior stock to carry the stud name either as it doesnt look good on them. They let them go cheap instead without papers. Not sure how feasible that all is really, sounds a bit strange to me! I didnt buy him for his spots or breed though so not really a concern but I am fascinated with coat colours!

I wondered if he was near leopard because of the dark shading on his legs and the slight roaning he gets in winter - oh and the pink ears! Maybe he is just a strange bay leopard - maybe I could get him tested just out of interest. The dark spots behind the saddle intrigued me most as made me think of a dorsal stripe - does that show on dun/buckskin leopards?
No idea of parentage unfotunately.

 

[Jen_e_Jen]

Ah, I can see a pretty dark line at the tips of his ears, not positive but it looks kind of black. In my in-expert opinion I would go w/Bay, but I don't know enough about appy color genetics to be certain.

 

[gypsygold]

He has dark tips to his ears so I can see why you say bay but then a dun or buckskin leopard would also have dark points - wouldnt it?

I will have a closer look tonight.

 

[Thistle]

He looks bay to me and I would call him leopard. I used to have a bay leopard myself, he had quite similar markings and his spots did vary in shade over his body!

Some pics:

I guess it is hard to know without knowing your horse's parents though! He is very gorgeous!!

 

[chev]

I'd say bay leopard too. He doesn't have any dun factor markings (you'd have bay spots on his back not black, and he has no leg barring at all) and appaloosa can change the appearance of base colours. The mottling on his nose is typical Appaloosa too.

 

[gypsygold]

thanks for your input.

Thistle his colouring is very like your boys and yes the spots do vary in shade in different areas of his body from light chestnut to very dark brown.

Chev the spots on his back and some other places are actually dark brown the only spots that are actually black are on his legs. However as you say that the appaloosa can change the base colour then I think your bay leopard theory is definately the most feasible.

Many thanks for your help. At least when asked I can say what colour my horse is