Friesian traits....

I love these debates - we've had them endlessly.

I bought a horse. And to me it really doesn't matter about his heritage, I'm not troubled at all. He's a handsome boy, has unbelievable presence, and moves like something out of Lord of the Rings being ridden by a faery queen. Unfortunately, he doesn't move like that when being ridden - then he's rather more like the Apollo 5 with the steering cable snapped.

So I have nothing invested in it, and haven't grabbed onto what somebody said because he's black.

My farrier tells me that Friesians have very very distinctive feet (I have no idea how, just that I trust him, he's experienced and good) - he says these feet are giveaways. Now two 'experts' have been brought in to work with him - and both have said that some of our issues are around the 'late development' because of his friesian influences and genetics.

Now I don't give them a crib sheet, it says cob on my vets description and my insurance because that's all he is to me.

However, if there is a breed issue which may be feeding into our problems with him - the jet propelled disappearances when it all gets too scarey - then that would help with his training.

Rather like if I was training a spaniel I'd use a different approach to a terrier or a GSD.

So I wondered, not what my horse is - although as always it's lovely to see different opinions - but how he would specifically behave IF they were right, and that is why I have a six year old who is still really not a very big boy and who didn't cope at all well with a 'conventional' dealers way of breaking and selling on.

I thought I may suddenly have a lightbulb moment.
 
I don't think he's friesian either - maybe a dales cross welsh cob or something along those lines, I think it's just because, as others have said, he is black - there the similarity ends, normally you can see something of the friesian in the crossbreds more often than not they have awful conformation from random crossing, or they inherit the action. If he is dales mix then they have friesian in their ancestry, but as for feet the only common thing friesians have is hard feet and a tendency to wear them more on the outsides but alot of breeds and mix breeds do it too so not something that would say for definite.
Anyway it doesn't matter what breed he is it doesn't determine how they cope or learn things that is down to the individual horse. The vast majority of friesians when they spook don't run away they run towards to investigate what spooked them, but not a breed trait for certain just something I've noticed in a good few but the crosses don't tend to do it.
Friesians like any of the draught or heavier breeds or cob types mature physically slower as it takes so long to build all that skeleton and muscle, they can sometimes look mature on the outside at 3 - the vast majority don't but to someone who doesn't have experience with youngsters it can be deceptive as they are so big - but internally and mentally they are still very much babies, that's why so many are broken in/bred from too young.

If he is bolting when you ask him to do things maybe you are just overloading his little brain - doesn't take much in a horse:D, if he has had issues in the past then I would go back to basics and start from scratch and do loads of in hand work like walking out etc so he builds trust and a bond with you before you get on his back again, he is only 6 so still maturing regardless of breed, keep sessions short and do 2 x 10 min sessions a day instead of one longer 1 - gives them time to think about what they learned and gradually increase the amount of time but always finish on a good note, when he's done what you set out to do then call it a day - don't push it - I know it's tempting! I've only just started bitting and walking out my 4 yr old which is what I would do wether friesian or TB, and don't like to back until 5 really although sitting on a 4yr old isn't too bad but not essential, am in no hurry and want my horses to be still working and sound in their late teens, so by 6 or 7 I'd be still very much in the basics so don't worry your boy is doing fine for his age given his bad start. The trouble with the quieter naturally willing breeds like the friesian is they get broken in very young like your boy, ie at 2 and 3, as they don't argue back but more often than not go spastic at a later date when they are older and have more confidence, yes they may happily do it when still babies and not complain as they don't know how but they soon learn and it all falls apart later when they just can't cope mentally or they are uncomfortable and have back problems from being ridden too young!!! Plus some horses just don't catch up mentally until they are 6 or 7 anyway!!:rolleyes:
Good luck with your youngster I'm sure he'll be fine eventually - that's the one things animals especially horses teach us is patience wether we like it or not!!!!:D:rolleyes:
 
Imagine he was grey, would you still think he had friesian charcteristics? I think the qualitlies in him you are seeing as freisian are draught qualities, similar in type to that of a welsh or typical irish driving cob. He has the typical set and carriage of a horse with driving breeding, and many had numerous influences. If the horse was grey I don't think there'd be any one posting about his friesian characteristics.


So what are you saying? That any black horse with unknown breeding who even slightly resembles a friesian can be classed as one, because they don't always pass off their looks?


Yes I would still think the same if he was grey. There are 2 very good examples of friesian crosses that I know personally, 1 is grey and 1 is plain bay - both are very friesian looking and have some very definite friesian characteristics. As mentioned previously not just colour but the very definite friesian 'front' I don't just own friesians I do and have owned other breeds but only friesians have the very definite front - looking very much like a pronounced wishbone rather than a flat front, that is what I class as a friesian trait - not colour.

Also from the pictures - again as I think I've already said - the way his head is set onto his neck, angle of ears and set of tail.

But - as OP said, seeing as his breeding is unkown it is all a matter of opinion based on photographs and we can't all expect to agree can we:p
 
Thankyou for your time blackhorses and madlady.

We went totally back to basics - he is being walked out, led from our bombproof mare, tacked up, ridden bareback, and is now level 3 in some parelli aspects - and two in others, we have attended parelli weekends with him, he has been 'rebacked' there, and is still ridden bareback (first time this week on a saddle!) - but whenever my daughter feels he is uncomfortable or stressed we stop and go back a step.

It's taken months and months - but he's worth it!

Today he has another audience with a new NH instructor - and tomorrow a real life Texan cowboy coming! Not that these people 'do' things with him (wouldn't allow that!) - but for opinions and guidance it's worthwhile even when it's stuff that tells you what not to do.

The last one suggested 'not introducing him to anything new for a year or two' - that would help with his desensitising then!

So thankyou for your opinions - it's hard keeping the faith sometimes, the one that said he should be kept in a field and not shown anything new also said he should be sold. Which is one option we will not be following, whatever he is.
 
It does sound as if he has had a hard time of it before you got him - thank goodness you are trying to help him when in a lot of places he would have just been labelled as a 'stubborn cob'.

I started backing my big girl at 4 but took it very very slowly and we are now at the stage (when I start riding her again after foal is weaned) that there isn't a lot we get worried about, even new things, we will stand, look, snort and then make our way calmly past it but it took a long time to get there as I have never been prepared to 'make' her do anything.

Good luck with him I'm sure with time and some trust he will be an absolute superstar.
 
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