Groundwork and yawning

neen

neen

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Oct 20, 2005
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Fluke and I are all fired up about groundwork at the moment, what with my recent trip to KateWooten's, our new halter and rope, and our new trainer. We're doing faster stuff loose in the school, and lots of close-in yielding in various directions. He's really engaged (for once!) and we're coming on in leaps and bounds.

But...

Why is it, when we start the close-in work, he starts yawning his head off? I know he likes it because he acts all happy and tries really hard (which is not always the Fluke way, let me tell you :rolleyes: ) These aren't politely smothered yawns, either -- it's a full on yawn-fest that looks so comical it has spectators in fits of laughter.

Has anyone else found this with this sort of groundwork?
 
P absolutely yawns her head off sometimes when I start schooling her, but when she does this she goes on to school very well. Don't know what it means but I take it to be a good thing! She tends to yawn a lot after Bowen treatments too, so maybe it's some sort of release? She was yawning like mad this morning, but that was after I'd disturbed her from being flat out on her side having a snooze in the field, so I'm sure that was her feeling sleepy!
 
yawning means that the horse is happy with what is going on. they are relaxed and willing to accept what you are asking of them. odin has a habit of keeping his door shut in a morning and asking to play (even before being fed, and that is some thing to say as odin is such a pig!) he is the one who wants to play and we also play fight, but he does the biggest of yawns at the same time. he also does it when schooling as do the others.

if the horse isn't happy you will see that the lips become tight and wrinkled round the edges. there are other signs of course but this is one of the first.
 
That's interesting, and somewhat reassuring too. I'd read somewhere that yawning could also be a displacement activity and therefore a sign of stress, but I'd imagine that other signs would be evident as well. I know Rio sometimes yawns when she's being tacked up, and both she and Tess often do after a ride. However that might just be tiredness :)
 
janet hakeney said:
Yawning is often caused by the horse 'coming down' off adrenalin.
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Couldn't have put it better myself:p I've been trying to find a way to phrase that for days now....:D

M gets anxious when I present new things to him. He has a pattern to his learning - get worried at the slightest ask, present everything he thinks I want in quick succcession, then slow his brain, then try something new, then click:p He gets it - and once it's there it stays. In the meantime, I just keep presenting the same information patiently and in the same way, wait for him to work through his concerns and help him where I can by being as clear as possible.

Then I see the yawning:) . I've always thought of it as a sign of understanding and relaxation, with a little tension:confused: if that makes sense:rolleyes: . But what you say makes complete sense to me Janet, it's coming down from adrenalin. I hadn't realised it until I just read that, but it explains the exact thing that he does.

ETA - I don't neccessarily think this would mean exactly the same thing in Fluke - but it could be a sign that he's just had to use a lot of mental energy to work things through. Sometimes I think that groundwork and anything else which really uses the brain can be more exhausting to horses than expending masses of physical energy.....
 
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Ah, now that would make sense -- especially as we do the close up work after more energetic loose schooling. He might be thinking "Thank goodness we're on the slow bit now... *yawn*"

He does it if there isn't time for loose schooling too, though, and go straight to close up work -- maybe then it's "Hooray, we're not running about after all today *yawn*" ?

Montana said:
present everything he thinks I want in quick succcession
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Fluke does that too -- really cute. It reminds me of teaching English as a Foreign Language, when the students used to take guesses at what the new words could possibly mean. Fluke doesn't seem to get stressed, though -- he tries all the options he can think of, then he fiddles with the rope or gives me a nudge: "That one's too hard, ask me another"
 
i think that you have to apply things to a situation rather that labling it all under the same thing. when odin asks to play and is yawning how can that be comming down from adrenalin?

i know that i feel tired if i've been in a stressfull situation that onl;y feels that way afterwards. however, horses how have liver problems also yawn so i don't think it's fair to say that all yawning is about adrenalin and associating it with stress. horses who are relaxed in their work will yawn.

i suppose it comes down to experience of knowing the difference.
 
i don't think it's fair to say that all yawning is about adrenalin and associating it with stress. horses who are relaxed in their work will yawn.
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I did not say that all yawning was due to adrenalin I said that it is often the case. There are of course other reasons, and an intense period of concentration would be one of them when followed by relaxation. Also, an excited, playful horse can still be working in his left brain and not be stressed but be releasing adrenalin. This is different from a stressed out right brain reactive horse who may take much longer to 'come down'.
 
another thing to think of is that it may have nothing to do with adrenalin at all. there are many endorphins that we don't fully understand, such as seratonin and dopamine (spellings) all are released when we are relaxed and happy. there are certain things that make me very happy and i yawn them too.
 
neen said:
Fluke and I are all fired up about groundwork at the moment, what with my recent trip to KateWooten's, our new halter and rope, and our new trainer. We're doing faster stuff loose in the school, and lots of close-in yielding in various directions. He's really engaged (for once!) and we're coming on in leaps and bounds.
QUOTE]

I still smile when i remember watching you loose schooling him:p:p Theres you running one way and him trying to run the other!!!:):)
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Yawning generally is the horse releasing adrenaline

So your horse may have a few builds up in it and you are obviously really starting to make the horse more trusting/comfortable etc so hence its releasing adrenaline :)
 
Of course, yawning is also considered to be a sign of dominance (Sheila Green, rec.equestrian 17/3/96) and of submission (http://eclectic-horseman.com/content/view/221/92/). FWIW, I don't believe either is true, and think some of the explanations above are more plausible.

Secondchance said:
Hi guys, I started a thread talking about yawning so I thought I'd contribute to this one also and try and get some feedback you on the topic of yawning, I've got a short video clip for you to look at and give me some pointers why you think my youngster in the video is yawning in your considered opinion the link for the video is below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZhHLZ52jDI

This is what one person said in regards to my methods and 2 year old colt's yawning:

Comments of the video by (shandy 84) in regards to your methods, can't really see a whole lot of useful life lessons going on there and did you know yawning is sometimes an exhibition of stress

I don’t agree with her thoughts, in my colts’ video, I'm not saying I'll agree with anyone else but it’s always good to hear from others that have an opinion on a subject
.:D
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I thought the comment was a bit mean. (Too often on YouTube they are - it must put some people off posting.) To my eyes, you weren't putting your colt under much stress at all, even though you were doing quite a lot with him. There were flies that day despite the breeze, right? The only thing that puzzles me is why you were shaking the rope at the same time as stroking his butt. You seemed to be wanting him to do something at the same time as inviting him to rest and relax after the previous work. Whether that could account for the yawning, I don't know.

P.S. He's relaxing in another way at 2:24. Come to think of it, I have seen yawning associated with "letting it hang out" before on several occasions.
 
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Very interesting thread....

Mines an LBI - calm, calculated, no effort unless 'something is in it for him'.

When I started groundwork, I knew I had a respect problem, which showed up in a variety of ways including rears, bites, threats to kick etc.

I kept initial sessions short (partly cos I was learning) and he would do lots of yawning and sleeping afterwards......

I did think this was because I had really made his brain work, but I do wonder if he was also coming off adrenaline, as in he never exerted himself or got wound up, but I do wonder if he had a 'resistance' adrenaline ie he was 'working/thinking how' to try and resist what I wanted but his usual tactics didnt work.

Hope that makes sense. The reason I've posted this is because as he has learnt how to play more and be a partner, I can do much more in a session but I dont get the yawning anymore.............
 
I suspect that many horses yawn when going into the school because they are bored to tears with the very thought of being in there.

There is nothing in there for them that has the remotest connection with their natural world. Where would you rather be if you were a horse, out with the herd or going round in relentless circles doing things they would never naturally do?
 
What if yawning was the method that the horse uses to relax himself? So he might be working really hard, thinking really hard, or stressed out, so his reaction to any of those situations is to yawn which may or may not release some endorphins and relax him.

So the situation that occurred directly prior to cause the yawning could have been good, bad, or otherwise.

It would fit with any number of situations. My horse yawns when I take him away from his herd, he's completely herd bound and he gets stressed easily, so maybe he yawns to help calm himself down.

If you're doing a lot of ground work that makes the horse think think think, when he gets a chance he might yawn to relax himself "boy did I have to think hard just now."

Even a tired horse might yawn to release those endorphins and just relax and chill out.

Or the dominant horse probably spends a lot of time fretting over which horse is going to try and take his position, keep that horse inline, oops where's my girlfriend, etc - yawn to get those endorphins going and relax a little, it's a lot to think about being herd boss!
 
elise said:
Or the dominant horse probably spends a lot of time fretting over which horse is going to try and take his position, keep that horse inline, oops where's my girlfriend, etc - yawn to get those endorphins going and relax a little, it's a lot to think about being herd boss!
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Does that really happen? No disrespect to you Elise, but I personally very much doubt it.
 
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