Hints how to get your horse to work in an outline

Emma3599

Emma3599

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Oct 5, 2008
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South Manchester
I've just started schooling my horse again after him having a long peroid off due to lameness. He has done some schooling in his life but is now really on his forehand (and with his lameness being due to a front leg problem I really want to alter this).

I would just like some extra ideas of what I can do to help him work well from behind and to add a bit of variety. I am doing lots of transition work and lots of different sized circles.

Do you think lunging would help or would I be better to leave lunging for a while? Would trotting poles be a good idea? Sorry lots of questions:)

Thanks in advance :)
 
I was always told to ride the horse forward strongly, then squeeze and relax your hands alternately - you need to experiment with how strongly you squeeze and how quickly you squeeze and relax, the horse should relax his jaw and start to bring his chin in.

Can take ages to get there tho'!
 
Hello

Is he forward going? If not you need to get him going forward before you can work on his outline, as the outline will only come when he is working from behind (sorry if you know this already).

I would use troting poles and as you are doing already lots and lots of transitions. If he is already going forward I would try holding the correct contact on one rein for 2 strides whilst squeezing forward with your legs. release and repeat on the other rein. then both reins.

I would try this just a couple of times per schooling session so as not to confuse or oush to fast to soon.

I read this method in a training book and it worked for me. It also stopped me 'sawing' on his month as the movement is gentle

Good luck
 
Obviously the forward impulsion is the key with an outline as everyone else has said! May help to work on getting your horse really sharp off your leg - give a light nudge, and if no instant response a firm kick, then a tap with crop behind your leg (be careful not to catch horse in the mouth if he reacts a bit over-enthusiastically or you're punishing him for doing what you asked!). Theres nothing worse than having to squeeze till you're blue in the face to get horse working forward in an outline. Remember though not to confuse an active trot with going too fast as this will put him more on the forehand.

Once you've got a nice active trot that your horse keeps up on his own without being nagged:

- open your inside hand a bit while on a circle so your horse is flexed a bit to the inside
- close your outside hand; there's no need to tug just close the contact so you're resisting rather than following the movement
- at the same time close your leg on so that he doesn't take it as a cue to slow down
- hold the outside rein contact till your horse gives by flexing at the poll. The SECOND he does this, soften your contact

At first, as soon as you soften he'll probably come back above the bit, this doesn't matter just repeat the whole process again. Don't be tempted to hold his head in place once he gives, you need to teach him to carry his own head and that flexing at the poll is the most comfortable place to be.

Takes a while but has worked for me eventually!
 
Thanks for the replies. That gives me lots to be working on.

After reading your replies I'd say he probably isn't forward going enough yet so I will work on the impulsion too.

Thanks:)
Emma
 
Try direct transitions too, halt to trot, trot to halt and so on. Good at getting the horse working from behind. Rein back to trot or even canter is one of my favs. Turn on the haunches is great too as it gets the horse's weight back over his hind quarters
 
The outline needs to be long and low with the Poll as the high point.

It takes about 2 years to get the longissimus dorsi back muscle strong enough to support the neck and maintain a relaxed outline.

To get the outline, you need to relax the occipital joint. Do this by gently opening the rein to the inside within the movement of the gait.

Pulling back on the rein just works the bit on the tongue which means you are in fact asking the horse to stop and therefore giving confusing signals.

Have a look at Gerd Heushmanns website.
 
Rabo said:
To get the outline, you need to relax the occipital joint. Do this by gently opening the rein to the inside within the movement of the gait.
Click to expand...

That's where the head joins the neck ... ? Do you only use the inside rein, or both? I'm looking for a new technique to try on my lad as he overbends, or stops going forward as soon as I touch the reins
 
From my experience so many people try and pull their horses into an outline. I think that the key is to really get your horse listening to you and not to confuse speed with impulsion.

I have always struggled to get the horse I ride to go in an outline. He isn't naturally the most forward going and whenever I got him going well he used to have his nose poked in the air. I couldn't maintain the forward movement and work on my rein contact at the same time.

However, when I was newly pregnant I was still riding and one day I really didn't feel well. I did the whole lesson in walk, without stirrups and concentrated on riding with a deep seat. I did lots of walk and halt transitions, and lots of lateral work, turn on the forehand and turn on the haunches etc. After about 30 minutes he went into a lovely, soft outline which I wasn't even asking for. My instructor was saying how he was really using his back legs and stepping underneth him. He was really listening to me and suddenly was very light and responsive. I didn't do anything with my rein contact apart from try to maintain an even contact - it all came from my legs and my seat. The thing was he didn't increase his speed at all - he was still fairly slow but in his natural stride. The difference was that he felt full of energy, even though we were not really going anywhere.

This was really a 'lightbulb' moment for me, and when I start to ride him again next year I am going to build on what I have achieved. Unfortunately after that lesson I became very ill and haven't ridden him since, but I can't wait to get on again.
 
As usual Mary Poppins has it spot on - it is all seat and legs that do it!! Of course you need a consistant soft contact with the mouth but other than that it all comes from the seat and legs.

I would say as he has had a long time off, asking him to work correctly and in an outline is a bit quick IMO. You need to get him responding to the leg and also stretching. Aim to work him long and low, stretching out more and work on your aids, seat and position to enable him to work easier himself.

As others have said before, for a true outline can be achieved he needs to be working from behind and active. For this alone i would forget about his head and even being on his forehand, until he is fitter and becoming more responsive to the aids and your legs!:)
 
I've just replied to this question on the other post :)

Sorry if I'm repeating but:

Outline = horse raises base of neck and drops poll, horse's back rounds up and lifts, loins coil and the horse is using the muscles along his top line (from ears to tail) to generate energy from behind. A horse going this way is using himself efficiently, is able to carry the rider's weight more easily and is 'light' on his front legs which makes him more 'collected' and able to make transitions, do lateral work, turn etc more easily. Also generates more impulsion - energy. So outline is not just where the head is.

Not-in-outline - head is raised, which causes back to hollow. Weight is on the front legs and horse sort of pulls himself along. A bit like a swimmer who swims along with his head out of the water (which makes the rest of his body sink) and isn't bothering to kick! Horse like this is not using himself efficiently.

On the bit is often used to mean a horse who's head carriage is consistent with being in an outline but I use it to mean the horse is calmly accepting the bit and is not resisting or evading it in any way.

But I'm no expert so others feel free to add your definitions. I think they are terms often used in different ways by different people so I would be interested in a range of views.
 
My favourite way is to work on speed/reactiveness to aids first - so really all out canters down long sides - slack reins, in forward seat, lots of legs and really floor it - When at RS I found it really difficult to get impulsion, without first having the forward speed. So really opening out the paces first of all, so the energy is in -----> kind of direction, and then sit back and use the squeezing to contain the forwards energy, but keep it with lots of leg so it becomes upwards energy (imagine a really bouncy piaffe or similar), rather than flat forwards energy.
 
lobeliaoverhill said:
That's where the head joins the neck ... ? Do you only use the inside rein, or both? I'm looking for a new technique to try on my lad as he overbends, or stops going forward as soon as I touch the reins
Click to expand...

Yes, you need to relax any tension is this joint (and the movement is tiny) to relax through the jaw.

Moving the inside hand (only the inside) away from the neck (opening) asks for movement in the occipital joint - you are not therefore using the bit on the tongue which gives the signal to stop. It should also prevent your horse overbending where the poll is no longer the highest point.

A lot of people use pressure on the tongue which creates tension and the horse will resist by tossing his head, overbending, pulling etc, all of which ***-engage the hindquarters.

Be prepared for this method to take a while - your horse will likely be easier on the left rein and decidedly difficult on the right rein as 90% of all horses are bent to the left and find it easier to flex to the left.

Let me know how you get on.
 
Supple up the whole body first. You don't want any braces. Lateral work of various sorts is good for this.

Once you've got a supple free body in your horse, then ask for it, wait and reward the second you get it (at the start). Build it up slowly. http://irishnhsociety.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=usefulinformation&action=display&thread=315

Also make sure the horse understands to give to the bit, not to push on it like many horses do. http://irishnhsociety.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=usefulinformation&action=display&thread=406
 
i think of the horse being through as pose to "on the bit" which is mis leading. rabo s explanation on the points of the horse is good and the whole aim.as said it will take ages to get those muscles correct. our horse was screwed up by a trainer who i thougt was good at the time but my god do i have probs now and im not even sure i can rectify them,if so it may take a min of 3 yrs to which absolutly no-one here has the foggyist idear, they just think ive no idear what im doing which is actually upsetting.
 
Getting the horses fitness up first would be my first priority. Lots of hacking, mostly walk to begin with then a bit of trot etc building it up slowly. I would not be asking for outline or circles until a reasonable level of fitness has been achieved, especially after the horse has been off lame.
 
almonds said:
i think of the horse being through as pose to "on the bit" which is mis leading. rabo s explanation on the points of the horse is good and the whole aim.as said it will take ages to get those muscles correct. our horse was screwed up by a trainer who i thougt was good at the time but my god do i have probs now and im not even sure i can rectify them,if so it may take a min of 3 yrs to which absolutly no-one here has the foggyist idear, they just think ive no idear what im doing which is actually upsetting.
Click to expand...



Almonds, where are you based? You sound quite desperate! pm me if you would prefer. I may be able to put you in touch with someone who could help you.
 
Hi I just wanted to make it a bit clearer what I was asking. My horse has been back in work since June and I have been building up his work very slowly. I probably didn't put the best thread title as my main aim isn't for him to be 'on the bit' or 'in an outline' but just for him to use himslef a little better ie to come off his forehand a bit as i don't want too much extra pressure/weight going in the front leg. Sorry I haven't been fully clear - note to self to make sure the title is clearer next time:). Thanks for all the great ideas and discussion though I really appreciate it and we are trying some of your ideas already to imrove our schooling sessions:)
 
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