How sensitive is a horse's mouth?

ina.click

ina.click

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Jul 19, 2007
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Bucharest, Romania
Now that we are off lounge lessons finally I am getting more and more confused regarding the bit, the reins and how strong / soft must I use the reins.

On one hand, I am simply terrified of producing discomfort to the horse's mouth. I try to correct her or lead her as softly as possible. We're doing 8's turns (like going in the shape of an 8 around and round..) and other stuff like that and so far I noticed my mare is quite sensitive. I don't actually need to pull her head, just a soft touch is enough for her to change directions.

On the other hand, my RI says that I should find balance not only in my seat but also in my reins. And that I should not let them loose, I have to permanently maintain "contact" with the horse.

Questions:

1. what would "contact" mean? how tight should that be?
2. since the mare is so responsive anyways, can't I get that bit out? Why can't I ride without the bit?
3. when we ride, the horse tends to stretch his neck, get his head close to ground, come back to position, stretch again etc. I allow her to do this, but my RI says once you got a hold of the reins you should not keep loosening them on and on.
4. Once, when the reins were a bit loose, the mare tripped a bit on something, but nothing hapenned, we continued. My RI said "see, this is what also can happen if you don't maintain close contact with reins. The horse also needs support, it can tumble otherwise". Did I make the horse trip?

I want to be able to guide a horse to go where I want to go, but I do not want to produce him / her fear and pain. Actually same questions - sort of - would apply to the whip as well. Do I HAVE to hit the horse at a moment in time? I never do that to any animal so it will be quite awkward for me to hit exactly my favorite species.
 
The horse's mouth is very sensitive (unless it's been ruined by hard hands and even harsher bits). That is why you should be as gentle with the reins as possible. Contact should be as soft as possible and to get the horse coming down on the bit and into that contact, squeeze both reins with your fingers. At the same time squeeze the horse's side (try and keep it gentle) to push it up into the contact. Dont let all the energy that this will create go out the front door by slackening off on the rein or sitting there like a lump of lard, keep hold. Do not pull backwards on the reins as all that will achieve is the horse stopping.
If you want to turn the horse what you can do (if horse will listen) is, if you want to turn left, put more weight on your left seatbone and he should turn (mine does). However, you may need a little feel on the left rein. Keep your hand in the position it's already in. (However, if it's a young (or green) horse), it is permissable to to bring your left (or right) hand out to the side and sort of lead the horse into and round the turn whilst still riding. This is not generally done on a horse that knows his/her job.
Actually no, you dont have to hit the horse, especially if it's young and doeosn't know what to do. The only time you should hit the horse is (when it's schooled and knows damn well what to do) if you ask it to (say) trot on and that doesn't happen, ask again, if it disobeys you, then a slap with the stick behind your leg is in order. (Never hit a horse on the neck with the stick). Behind your leg is the correct place, or may be a light tap on the shoulder occasionally.
 
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1.when you have contact with the horse you should be able to feel the bit in the mouth (sorry only way I could think of putting it)

2.What do you mean Like in a headcoller or bittless bridle?

4.I don't think you did! my mare trips all the time and always have contact
 
I don't think you would cause the horse to trip by not having a contact?! I could be wrong tho......Sounds like you are doing the right thing by not wanting to hurt / be harsh - thats good - I remember at first I did not know how much "contact" to take up - its difficult. All horses are different and require different degrees of contact - my Storm for instance does need contact - even out on a ploddy hack, whereas OH's horse needs hardly any - too much and he can get quite upset about it.
 
1. Glad to know I did not make the horse trip.
2. Glad to know the whip is not crucial either. Actually I noticed the mare knows exactly what a whip is. When we were left alone for some minutes, she simply would not trot no matter how much I made those silly kissing sounds and struggled on her like a rabid chicken. Yes I did use my legs. Probably not correctly but I did. When the RI returned - with the whip as well - she started trotting flawlessly. My strategy that I intend to apply is to carry the whip but not use it actually. Perhaps it works.
3. Yes, when I say riding without a bit I mean ... removing the bit from the bridle, I am sure there are such bridles. How would that affect riding? The horse might feel more comfortable for sure though.


Thanks for quick responses!
 
think about how things feel in your mouth - you feel them, but it can be a fair amount of pressure before that becomes painful.

a bit shouldn't cause pain unless you yank on the reins - it's not what it is meant to do.

the contact is like 'holding hands' with the horse- it reassures them that you are still there and still paying attention. again like holding hands, sometimes the horse can lean on the contact like a child swinging off your hand - then if you let go they can trip over, but that doesn't sound like it is what happened.

i think it is a mistake to think of the bit as fundamentally a bad thing, or something you want to do without in an ideal world. it is a means of communication, the horse has been taught to respond in a certain way to certain cues from it. while you can just as easily train a horse to go on cues on the nose or head, it's not 'better' in any way, in my opinion, unless the rider is unable to use the bit without it causing pain.
dont assume that any pressure in the mouth is painful - it's not, any more than if you put a pen in your mouth and press on the corners of your lips it is automatically painful. if you pull hard enough then yes it does hurt, but that's not the idea of using the reins.
 
The best description i have heard about how much 'contact' you should have, is that it is like shaking hands. Just as it is unpleasant to have your hand crushed in a trial of strength, it is also horrid to get a limp, boneless handshake. Aiming for something inbetween, particularly a constant, reliable 'presence' that doesn't pull back or jump around, but gives a 'place' for the horse to work into allows it to decide how to hold its head.

At first, the horse won't know where you want it to hold its head (and how to carry itself), so you have to help it by being clear in your own mind what is acceptable, deciding the rein length necessary to convey that, making sure the horse is moving actively forward so it has the energy to acheive that frame, and checking that by keeping elbows bent and wrists soft but a consistent feel on the reins you aren't catching the horse in the mouth.

If you are inconsistent by keeping on giving the reins away (even if the aim is to be kind), the horse doesn't know where the right place to put itself is, and is likely to try different ways of balancing (backing off the contact, then leaning forwards to try and find it). It is this variation that your instructor probably means about the stumbling.

i know what you mean about trying to be kind and not 'holding' the horse's mouth too hard, but an elastic constant contact is actually kinder than an inconsistant one, 'cos the horse knows what it is working with minute to minute and can work with you.

Hope that makes some sense at least !:)
 
Excellent explanations and piece of advice, thanks a lot!

I will remember the holding hands and hands shake comparison next time I ride.
The truth is I do confuse the horse a lot. When we run by the edge of the circle my only concern was not to be bumped into the fence and I kept pulling her head to the inner circle - which made her quite disoriented. After few runs I noticed she will not actually bump me into the fence, as she can see how close it is or how far. I don't think compassion for my safety is what makes her avoid touching the fence, but more realistically simply not hurting herself.

The more I ride the more I learn and actually my impression towards this horse has changed a lot. Considering the mistakes I keep making she actually is very patient and good willing with me (yes, she is! although arab and ..chestnut :mad:) and despite the fact that she does not take me serious enough to start trotting if we're alone, she has not really tried not even once to get rid of me off her back.

At last riding lesson we did something that I enjoyed even more than the riding itself. The RI decided we need more "bonding" and encouraged me to take a walk with her (not on her). We walked and talked - well. I did the talking - on the alleys in the sun until she was completely dry - she is washed after every riding lesson - she stopped munching some herbs, I waited, I stopped to tie my shoe, she waited...

I know that a horse will never behave towards me like a pup, they are different species with different behaviors, but every time she shows more confidence in me or seems more relaxed in my presence I feel happier than after a good ride.
 
wow thats really cool that you get to bond with your RS horse. I would say that you are moving in the right direction. I remember when I started to ride I was worried about contact, and hurting the horse as well. But then I got walked all over by one particular pony (I was given him to ride so I could learn how stern to be) and this helped me alot. Then I got switched to a more sentive soul to learn to canter, and this showed me the other side of the coin that he doesn't need as much contact and a softer approach was better. So perhaps as well riding a more bossy pony who tries to do things that you don't want them to do (like cutting corners or going fast) might help a little towards learning how stern and in control you need to be sometimes. It is not hurting them, its just being safe. Ask your RI about riding a variety of different horses and ponies. Hope that helps. :D
 
I have never tried it myself but I was told that if you put the bit on your arm in the crease of the elbow. And get some one to pull back on the reins behind you, this is the equivelent of what its like in the horses mouth. You don't need to pull too much for it to really hurt.

Hope that makes sense.
 
ina.click said:
...my only concern was not to be bumped into the fence and I kept pulling her head to the inner circle...
Click to expand...


I used to have this worry with Joy.

I dealt with this in 2 ways:

The first was to do the oposite of what you described. I would turn her head towards the fence which I know sounds weird. The thing to remember is the the horse is narrower at the front than the rear. So if you turn her head towards the inside then this first puts your leg closer to the fence before you get far enough away.

By turning the head into the fence the horse must adjust its quarters away and therefore takes your leg away from danger. :)

That was only a short-stop measure until I could teach my horse to respond laterally to my leg. We are pretty much there now with this although one side is better than the other.
 
I have a similar problem - v.v scared of hurting the horse's mouth! However, the horse I regularly ride, Kismet, doesn't like loose reins. When you're in 'contact', you should be able to feel the horse's mouth on the bit; there will be slight pressure at the ends of the reins, and you'll have to work to keep your elbows bent at the same time. Kiz responds much much better with 'contact', and turning him in 15 metre circles is easier, as all I have to do is draw a hand back, and he'll turn obediently.

Some horses are different - one of my regular hacks, Sally, hates too much contact; she's so responsive anyway she won't be ridden by people who rein back too tightly. As such, she maintains my bad habits!
 
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