Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling - anyone read his books?

[Bessy]

Does anyone here know anything about the methodology of Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling? I am currently reading his book Dancing with Horses and there is an area on leading where I am a little confused and unless I am reading it completely wrong, the idea of Zones appears to be contradictory.

Firstly he examines the art of leading, and that unlike traditionally leading close to the shoulder area of the horse, we should lead in front of the horses head, at least 1 to 3 meters away, with our leading hand behind us. I have been doing this, though can't confirm it has or has not been beneficial - though I haven't managed to grasp his method of stopping the horse, so at that point I have to drop back to his shoulder for him to understand "stand".

He then talks about Zones and this is where I become confused. Zone 1: the area in front of the horse where he says to lead from, gives you prime dominance over the horse (and this is explained). He then talks of Zone 2: the area to the sides of the horse which puts you at the least point of dominance over the horse. He then goes on to talk about Zone 3: the area behind the horse (the position you use to long rein) which gives you the ultimate dominance over the horse (the strongest dominance position). My issue with this is - his leading method of being in front of the horses head gives YOU prime dominance over the horse - being in the horses Zone 1, however in doing so aren't you putting THE HORSE in YOUR Zone 3 so he believes he has ultimate dominance over you? Unless horses do not see humans as having the same "zones" as horses, but in which case wouldn't this put holes in the whole book and the theory of using horses body language if they don't actually read our body language as a horse?

Another question not related to this book. Having been doing a lot of groundwork over the past couple of weeks, I have noticed a difference in when I ask him to back up in his field (not on a lead rope). I used to ask him to back up every time I entered the field out of politeness, especially if entering with his feed. I have now started to ask him to back up further and wait for me to put the feed bucket down and invite him to eat. What he does is back up a few steps, but then walks away from me before returning to eat. Is this a good sign of my dominance over him or is it his way of "sticking 2 fingers up" at me by turning his back on me?

 

[Francis Burton]

Firstly he examines the art of leading, and that unlike traditionally leading close to the shoulder area of the horse, we should lead in front of the horses head, at least 1 to 3 meters away, with our leading hand behind us. I have been doing this, though can't confirm it has or has not been beneficial - though I haven't managed to grasp his method of stopping the horse, so at that point I have to drop back to his shoulder for him to understand "stand".

I think horse and human can (and probably should) learn to do leading in all positions, though one or other may be preferable from a safety point of view.

He then talks about Zones and this is where I become confused. Zone 1: the area in front of the horse where he says to lead from, gives you prime dominance over the horse (and this is explained). He then talks of Zone 2: the area to the sides of the horse which puts you at the least point of dominance over the horse. He then goes on to talk about Zone 3: the area behind the horse (the position you use to long rein) which gives you the ultimate dominance over the horse (the strongest dominance position). My issue with this is - his leading method of being in front of the horses head gives YOU prime dominance over the horse - being in the horses Zone 1, however in doing so aren't you putting THE HORSE in YOUR Zone 3 so he believes he has ultimate dominance over you? Unless horses do not see humans as having the same "zones" as horses, but in which case wouldn't this put holes in the whole book and the theory of using horses body language if they don't actually read our body language as a horse?

I agree this is contradictory. I'd be very interested to hear how Hempfling resolves the apparent paradox. My preference for leading is "Zone 2", though not for any reason to do with dominance - it's just what I find works best and is most safe and comfortable.

Another question not related to this book. Having been doing a lot of groundwork over the past couple of weeks, I have noticed a difference in when I ask him to back up in his field (not on a lead rope). I used to ask him to back up every time I entered the field out of politeness, especially if entering with his feed. I have now started to ask him to back up further and wait for me to put the feed bucket down and invite him to eat. What he does is back up a few steps, but then walks away from me before returning to eat. Is this a good sign of my dominance over him or is it his way of "sticking 2 fingers up" at me by turning his back on me?

Or it could be neither! It may be "displacement activity" caused by the conflict between wanting to eat and staying out of your space - a way of passing the short time before he is able to eat in a less frustrating way than standing and watching you. Walking away is also slightly easier and less work than backing away. Your horse gets what he wants fairly quickly, so it's not a big deal to him. I wouldn't want to make it a big deal by extending the "show of dominance", and wouldn't take personally his turning his back on me in an entirely safe manner (presumably he's not threatening to kick you or anything like that?).

 

[poniesrule]

Hi

I havent read through any of his books as i didnt know there was any.

But have watched a video, and i was totally enthralled!!!

I felt that to be able to connect with horses the way that he does, i would have to be re-born and completly re-eduated.

His horses are beautiful

 

[mayoguinness]

Not read his book but watched his video and it did look pretty amazing! I don't really like the idea of being infront of the horse to much though, I like to be by the shoulder with a loose rope so I'm walking with the horse as a partner, also if the horse is a bit slow I can push him on a little with the tail of my rope, if to fast or spooky I'm better able to let him circle around me or bump a little to ask him to slow. Also I just prefer being with the horse rather than away infront. But you know what they saw, different strokes . . . .

 

[Roka]

Yes I have 2 of his books, Dances with Horses and Horse Personalities. They are both great. Have seen his videos long time ago too. He used to live here in Denmark not far from here.

 

[JanC]

Read his books last year and went to one of his 2 day clinics in England. I used his leading and stopping methods with good results. Re your question on zones - from what I remember, there are a lot of subtleties involved and it is important to get distances and angles correct - one position is the dominant horse moving the herd and the other is the foal following the mother. I found me walking backwards and lots of eye contact really useful at encouraging confidence in my girl when we were going on lots of walks together and she was nervous of something - still use that actually. Height of leading rope also important and subtle - horses seem to really notice all this and Klaus makes it all look so easy and invisible! Raising the hand with the rope is the signal to stop. It was an amazing clinic although my friend and I were like little teenagers and couldn't help being giggly at first - he's so gorgeous!

 

[kturner]

I know what you mean about the confusion of zone one leading.

I have always done this way since starting parelli. But mine will nudge me along from behind if I am not going fast enough, I always get the feeling he is herding me. I stop and flap my elbows to get him back and carry on again, if he does it again, I start running backwards flapping my elbows insisting he stay well back. It is a weird feeling of 'am I leading or is he sending me'?

Most of the time he knows I am leading and he is following!!!

 

[Francis Burton]

I found me walking backwards and lots of eye contact really useful at encouraging confidence in my girl when we were going on lots of walks together and she was nervous of something - still use that actually.

That's interesting, because eye contact is thought by others to be rather threatening and/or pressuring. Could you explain a little more about how you use it to encourage confidence?

I find the whole "eye contact" issue fascinating, because of the questions it raises about whether and how horses establish eye contact with each other. I tend to think that it is neutral by itself, but that it is given meaning by the body language that accompanies it, and it is sometimes very hard to detach one from the other.

 

[JanC]

I don't uses eye contact when I'm approaching her but i noticed that she would look at my face when she was worried about something, so I looked back! Now we look at each other - then walk past the worry and then she steals another glance at me once we are past it! Chris makes quite a bit of eye contact with me and its never aggressive, its more "are your sure mum" and "thanks". Do you think I might be mad?!

 

[blackhorses]

I think the whole thing with having a horse following you it is either on a lead rope or following of its own accord. If on a lead rope it has a tie to you and you are telling it where to go, the same as when you are long lining it. If you were trying to lead your horse from in front and it's wandering all over the place then it has zero respect for your dominance! If the horse is loose and following you as you tell it to then you also would be the leader in this instance too.
As for wanting to feel you are a partner and walk side by side with your horse - nice image - but in reality a horse does not think like this and we have to understand the way their heirachy works in order for us to get our horses to do as we want - after all it's not really a partnership on equal terms - if the horse had its way it would be looking for the juiciest bit of grass, there is no advantage in their eyes why they should expend energy jumping/dressage etc they do it because we tell them to so we have to adopt some of their way of looking at things as they have rather a tiny brain and I don't think learning english is really an option for them!!! If you notice though as he gets each horse more and more attuned to his body language his position does become more towards a more traditional leading position but by this stage the horse is having no doubts at all who is boss, and the positions are far more subtle.

Have been to his UK demo and I have read his books - he really knows his stuff and is not into all the circus palaver the other "natural" hormanship drivelers are into. He does waffle a bit but his ideas are great and totally common sense. Would happily take a gg of mine to one of his demos. The only thing I do notice about him is he is totally instinct driven and to him it is dead obvious what he does and why and the horses respond straight away - I don't think it is something that can be taught 100% just something you naturally have - although we can certainly try and aim in the right direction! He did say his horse personality ideas are just the very basic tip of the iceberg stuff and most horses have bits of several personalities in them but it makes you pay a bit more attention to a horse when you see it. I don't think anythings personality can be categorised so easily - Parelli take note!!! It would be like having people put into only 20 different personality catagories!!!
At least he actually takes proper problem horses unlike the others and it takes him very little time to help them and understand them and in a very quiet unassuming way. Am definitely going to his next demo - might see if I can take one of my boys along to one of his weekend workshops.

 

[kturner]

I have all his books and videos and waiting for new set of training dvds to come out.

I use parelli and other methods but like his spiritual approach and the personality types.

Sometimes he is very difficult to follow, like a recent radio show I listened to last week. I get the ideas he is trying to put across, which is herd behavior though sometimes I have to think about it for a while and replay things to get it all.

You can watch his stuff or read years later and get more and more things out of the ssame material which you didnt grasp first time round.

He has a website called nature 2 promotions which you can access via youtube videos of his.

 

[wonkeywoody]

I think horse and human can (and probably should) learn to do leading in all positions, though one or other may be preferable from a safety point of view.

I agree with this. Also leading in various positions from both sides allows the horse to accept "change" without getting worried.

Hempfling is fascinating to watch - its so easy just to watch the horse! I havent read much of his material, too many write ups all suggest he is not necessarly clear enough to follow.
I have only seen clips of him working at a high level - would love to see him working with a horse that is just "starting out"

I don't think anythings personality can be categorised so easily - Parelli take note!!! It would be like having people put into only 20 different personality catagories!!!

Just to clear up a misconception. When doing 'personality' categorising, most people find that they are predominantly in "one box", but have traits from other 'boxes'. P's horsenality is exactly the same - it is a guide to your horses innate character - not as some think, to set him in stone in one box!

 

[kturner]

Wonkeywoody - you are right about them having a main personality type, but have other tendencies in other circumstances. Mine is a gem on the ground and in the stable, but I have to think very carefully about what is in his head when riding. He gets much much more energy and can get frightened about things which dont bother him if I am on the ground leading him. We have a lot of getting on and off when out and a lot of throwing off when on grass. Besides this he is very laid back and would be termed left brained introvert. Total opposite when it comes to tack and fun!

 

[wonkeywoody]

That's interesting, because eye contact is thought by others to be rather threatening and/or pressuring. Could you explain a little more about how you use it to encourage confidence?

Eyes can be soft and 'just looking' or they can be hard and 'threatening'. Body language used in conjunction with eyes is what the horse reads....

We have a lot of getting on and off when out and a lot of throwing off when on grass. Besides this he is very laid back and would be termed left brained introvert. Total opposite when it comes to tack and fun!

Ha ha..Sounds like mine!!!! He could flip to adrenaline rushing hooligan in an instant (RBE to you and me!) However, thro the groundwork and building of trust I have learnt how to read and control his emotions much better and he is becoming a more consistant, level headed nice horsey.

 

[kturner]

The change in his personality comes about when doing something which is just so much fun, or what he doesnt want to do. If you never did that he would remain LBI all the time and you would never see RBE.

Recently I have been reading Carolyn Resnick and she sees eye contact as a communication thing and not threating at all. i.e. the horse has to keep looking at you to show it is paying attention which is what it would do with lead mare. When they are not observant to the others is when they can get knocked off their position in herd. Therefore when they are not looking at you they are not paying attention.

I have never seen looking at them as showing or inviting aggression. That is mainly a dog thing. I had 6 attack trained large dogs when I lived in South Africa, and then looking at them (strangers that is) was being threatening and invited an attack. So we never looked other peoples dogs in the eye thereby not threatening them.

But horses are by nature gregarious and love company equine or human and eye contact in them is totally different. My boy may not look at me all the time when we are working, but every few seconds I see him look at me to check what I am asking. I can stare at him without him getting upset at all either being threatening or threatened.

 

[wonkeywoody]

I can stare at him without him getting upset at all either being threatening or threatened.

When you stare at him as you describe, is this when you are not intending anything by it?
Are you aware of a difference in your stare when you have intention? ie you want him to do something?
Is there a difference in your body language at the same time as the 2 different 'stares'?

 

[kturner]

wonkeywoody - yes for different circumstances, sometimes a cross look and walking towards him with very definate move back look, or just looking at him when sitting in his stable while he eats. he knows the difference. He also knows smily eyes from me and goes all cuddly. I am aware of my body language and eyes/look on my face just the same way as he pulls a face at me if he doesnt like something. Often that look you give the kids i.e. dont push it, he knows that one too paired with standing still and stiff, the one you give your kids in the supermarket when they wont stop asking for things.

I was just thinking what has this got to do with Hempfling.......it is the attitude combined with the body language and eyes that the horse understands.

 

[old_woman]

I have a lot of time for Hempfling, and after seeing him by chance in Spain some years ago, have been to a couple of his clinics over the years as well as having his books and videos.

When I saw him in Spain, what I liked very much was that the horses he worked with were then moved on to other people who were able to handle them perfectly well with 'normal', even minimal, horse skills. He used no equipment that people would not have around in the normal course of things, and produced what I would describe as 'soft' (in eye, expression and body language) horses who looked to humans for guidance, yet still possessed all their unsullied and innate fire and temperament.

It would be simplistic to call him a 'natural' horseman. He had never ridden until he was - I think - 28 or 29. His is not the easiest of personalities, and was 'away with the fairies' (IMO) and somewhat cult-ish for a while two or three years ago, but he is VERY easy on the eye for me, at least - which shouldn't have any bearing on the matter, but which inevitably does.

He is not an easy man to categorise, and his style - inasmuch as he could be said to have something as restrictive as a style - is not one that lends itself to being broken down into a step-by-step process or marketed as a 'system' or a method.

As another poster says, it is too easy to watch the horse. When that happens one will fail to recognise the subtle changes in the body language of Hempfling, which are the cues understood by the horse. He is a master of the most subtle of body language, both understanding and using it, and this is often difficult to follow.

In addition he places huge emphasis on the more esoteric aspects of the man/horse relationship, including aspects of the Kabbalah, which is off-putting for many people, including myself. His use of the term 'Akedah' (the binding of Isaac) for his web address, however, gives a clue to his interests in this regard - the relationship between heaven and earth, the spirit and the body, free choice and blind obedience, the acceptance of responsibility for the unpleasant realities of the earth as well as for oneself.

What has this to do with the training of the horse? You may well ask!

Again, like the claims made by many new-age and alternative horsemanship trainers, it is more - much more - about training the person rather than the horse.

But isn't that true about even the most traditional of Schools, the SRS of Vienna? Their riders require far more training than do their stallions!

He is, however, IMO, ridiculously expensive. I would not use my own money to attend his clinics or training sessions. At least, though, he does not try to market left-handed ropes, and his books are, of course, accessible to all. He also encourages attendees to learn from as many sources as are available to them.