More saddle woes :( (again!)

Lot1983

Lot1983

Active Member
Oct 16, 2006
7,260
5
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The Cotswolds
We’re still having saddle fit issues :(

Bit of background, saddle was fitted in June 2010 and I was advised at the time that it would need reflocking in the future.

June 2010 I arranged for the saddle to be fully reflocked (£130), horse also has physio at the same time.

October 2011, fed up with lack of progress jumping I get Chiropractor to look at horse, she advises no point doing anything until saddle and feet are looked at. So saddle fitter comes back out and she advises that I need a partial reflock as the front has settled and dropped so it’s twisting behind, as a gesture of good will she just charges material used and fuel (£50).

Last weekend I hacked out for a hour mostly in walk and I noticed that the saddle still had pronounced sweatmarks at the back.

This weekend we did an hours ride mostly in trot, please see below results:
His back post ride:
IMAG0399.jpg


Position of the saddle before riding, note use of thin high wither saddle cloth:
IMAG0398_1321273467979.jpg


Interesting sweat patches on the saddle cloth:
IMAG0400.jpg


So... what do you think?

I have emailed the pictures to the saddle fitter and await her response. Part of me is now feeling that she should rectify this for free, I get the feeling that she’s going to tell me to use a front riser under the saddle but what’s the point in me spending nearly £200 on reflocking just to shove a pad under it? If she suggests a pad should I ask her to provide and pay for it?
 
Did you buy the saddle new from the saddle fitter? If you did I think the re flocking that happened in June of this year (Im assuming you meant this year not the month you bought it?), is perhaps something that is often needed when a new saddle settles in to rider and horse.

However, as you now seem to be having ongoing problems with the saddle I would have expected the saddler to help sort things out with little cost to you, maybe just expenses etc. as a gesture of goodwill? I would also be pretty peed off if I had paid a lot of money for reflocking and then told to put different pads under the saddle. If a saddle needs different pads underneath then quite simply it doesnt fit the horse IMO.:confused:
 
Personally I'd be after a second opinion from another saddle fitter (and on here of course!) Sorry I can't be of much help as I feel very novice in this area of problems but I wouldn't feel inclined to keep using the same saddler, all things considered...
 
Well, I’ve just spoken to the saddler and she thinks firstly that I may be riding with my stirrups too short and because I’m quite tall this is tipping my weight back. So first step is to put stirrups down.

The sweat patches on the saddle cloth, she said that she wouldn’t want to see them at the front as he needs to build up muscle here, this shows that there is space for the muscle to fill out.

So, going to ride with longer stirrups for a couple of weeks, as I only get to ride twice a week it’s quite hard to judge these things quickly, if that doesn’t improve or I’m not happy with the way that he’s going then we need to try some different saddles.

So, can we all cross our fingers that I get a damn good pay rise as not only may I need a new saddle I need to buy a new car next year!

ETA: The saddle was bought last summer second hand from the same saddler.
 
Anyone else?

Saddler has also emaield this morning to ask if maybe I'm putting it a bit too far forward (something I know I do do but I am trying to put it further back.)

Hummmmmmmm....
 
It's only going to fit how your saddler meant it too if you put it in the right place. this is something I struggle with too as Joy has enormous shoulders. What I like to do is put the saddle on first and do the girth up loosely and then her leg wraps and then stand right back and look at it. Invariably it's on too far forward so I then have another poke about for the back edge of her shoulder and settle it well behind that. Up close it looks far to far forward, standing back it looks right and the seat is level.

Then I went through a stage of the saddle coming forward during our ride. For us, at different stages, the answers were changeable. We had different girths, non slip mats and a diet!

I have every admiration for my excellent saddle fitter as there is so much more to it than matching saddle to back shape.
 
A few things. It is perfectly possible that your horse has changed shape over this wholoe period and what did fit in the past will no longer.

A complete reflock will require topping up fairly soon after doing - 1-3 months, and she should have primed you for the cost of that, but otherwise as others have said, all flocking settles and a brand new saddle will also need that top up at 1-3 months. Most fitters only charge call out or similar. But again, your horse may have changed shape.

Sweat patched are not helpful for diagnosing saddle fit. The only sign of something not right is if there is a small dry patch within a large sweaty patch and this indicates a pressure point. Nothing else means much. Dirt patterns are marginally more helpful - dirt should be seen where there is some contact AND some movement, clean where there is contact with no movement. Still not a real diagnostic tool though.

The photo isn't helpful, with the head and neck down like that, but I do think you are putting it on too far forwards. If the cantle is low in my opinion it is more likely to be to do with the front to back balance of the saddle and your height/weight than it is to do with stirrup length - presumably you need to jump in this saddle, with short stirrups?

I wonder if the tree is a little curvy from front to back. This will make is rock and/or pivot.
 
He has changed shape a little since the saddle was reflocked in June. (He’s got wider)

The tree is the high wither version (he’s a tb) with dropped panels, although he has withers they’re not shark fin and has been in ‘standard’ saddles before.

Going to make a concerted effort to move the saddle back in future and see how that goes. I’ll try and get some pictures this weekend as picking up my carmera (these were on my phone which hates focusing on a moving horse under artificial light!)

In regards to jumping, who knows. I’d like to but horse isn’t that keen on it so I just don’t know where we stand on this.

Will also wash the saddle cloth this week and work on fresh dirt stains.

Part of me is thinking I need a second opinion but I’m just not sure who to trust locally! (But likewise part of me is also aware that I do try to find problems where there aren’t any as I’m so paranoid about something being wrong, I do the same with horse and car!) not to mention that if the saddle fit was REALLY bad horse wouldn’t hesitate to remove me from it (he’s done it before!)
 
Not much I can add, really, apart from HOW MUCH for a re-flock!?!?! :eek: ( I won't tell you what we used to charge at the shop! Depended on the saddle, some where you had virtually dismantle the whole thing were right PITA saddles!)

OK, so at Christmas, I am flying back with all my stitching / repairs kit, (that's about normal!) and now my flocking iron and 20 kilos of flocking!! :giggle:

When you take more pics, will look again. :)
 
Kis Vihar said:
Not much I can add, really, apart from HOW MUCH for a re-flock!?!?! :eek: ( I won't tell you what we used to charge at the shop! Depended on the saddle, some where you had virtually dismantle the whole thing were right PITA saddles!)

OK, so at Christmas, I am flying back with all my stitching / repairs kit, (that's about normal!) and now my flocking iron and 20 kilos of flocking!! :giggle:

When you take more pics, will look again. :)
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lol...i thought that, i charge about 60£ for a complete reflock!!!!
 
Nope about £130 for a full reflock and she charged me £49 for a front lift (and that was apparenlty just charging me for materials and petrol!)

Pooh's mate what's your knowledge of local saddleries like? It's L from Cirencester (don't want to give out full names!)
 
Lot1983 said:
Nope about £130 for a full reflock and she charged me £49 for a front lift (and that was apparenlty just charging me for materials and petrol!)

Pooh's mate what's your knowledge of local saddleries like? It's L from Cirencester (don't want to give out full names!)
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I know a friend who got charged £80 for a reflock 10 years ago from a ciren saddler!!!!
 
I think it depends on your saddle fitter and what they are qualified for. Some are just registered as retailers so if a reflock is needed they'll send it back to the manufacturer. Worth asking about when shopping about for a saddle fitter.
 
Joyscarer said:
I think it depends on your saddle fitter and what they are qualified for. Some are just registered as retailers so if a reflock is needed they'll send it back to the manufacturer. Worth asking about when shopping about for a saddle fitter.
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She is a saddle fitter not a saddler, so she doesn't actually do the work herself on them.

Pooh'smate, it's probably the same place as there's only one in the middle of town!
 
Lot1983 said:
She is a saddle fitter not a saddler, so she doesn't actually do the work herself on them.

Pooh'smate, it's probably the same place as there's only one in the middle of town!
Click to expand...



That explains it. If they get the work done by the factory or third party then there's additional costs such as their cut and postage to be paid, bit different to getting the work done there and then in front of your eyes which i think is the general expectation on here given the responses you've received till now.
 
My colleague at Native Pony, Clive Whereatt, is an independent SMS maker and fitter and would do the work himself - mind you I am only a fitter and do all flocking including strip flocks, myself! I'm quite sure he'd be able to help you - details on www.nativeponysaddles.com and the SMS site. He is based I think in Chipping Sodbury but covers a big area.

I will say that a full strip and reflock is a big job - I did one at the weekend and removing the flock from one panel alone took 45 minutes - the saddle was mildewy, the flock was at least 10 years old and massively compacted and it took 2.5 hours in total plus the cost of the flock, beautiful soft wool which I haven't been billed for yet so no idea what it will cost - a reflock uses a massive amount. I am currently carrying a shoulder injury because of it as well, the flock was so hard to remove! I think it was well worth the £85 I charged for the transformation in the horse that was evident and so did the owner - especially as I did it on site and she wasn't left without the saddle for any length of time.

Having a horse is not cheap!
 
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