My Thyme

[Thyme & Me]

Interesting concept about the transitions I haven't heard that before but we did a neat little exercise with my dressage instructor last weekend that seems to go a little bit along these lines. She was asking me while I was riding. Is there a little bit of canter in this trot? (before asking for canter) and you could feel either yes, there's a little bit of canter in this trot already or no there's not that much energy. And then the same with downward transitions (Is there a little bit of walk in this trot) so that you adjust the energy of wherever you are in so that the transitions feel soft and natural -kind of like a horse in the field rather than a car in city traffic.

YES!!! This is what he said. With one horse,the horse tended to break into canter while trotting. Mark said the rider had learnt to think 'canter' whenever they were trotting so there was canter in the trot from the start. She was asked to reverse that. Think TROT while trotting, and even if the horse cantered, keep thinking 'TROT'. So that way instead of there being canter in the trot, there was trot in the (unwanted) canter, which made it easier to re-establish trot. And soon there was just trot in the trot!

When I first tried to get the feeling or experience of 4 beat while trotting there was an immediate response from Thyme - her trot rhythm changed and she slowed a little. I could feel her thinking about it. Then it was almost as if she changed her mind: "no, walk means pressure in my mouth, so that can't be right", so the moment was gone. But a few seconds later she responded again and this time did come right back to walk. That connection took a little while to establish but once there it was easy to use.

 

[Thyme & Me]

What a fantastic post. I would have loved to have been there.

He's in Scotland this weekend if you can get there....!

 

[Thyme & Me]

That is really really interesting and inspiring!

I wish i could have been to the clinic also. Are there DVDs that i can purchase with regards to Mark Rashid? I am really interested in his concepts that you have mentioned!

http://www.markrashid.com/forsale_dvds.php

I wanted to buy some, but he wasn't selling anything at the clinic! Again the 'too low key' bit. I don't like the hard sell, OTT merchandising of some approaches but I hoped he'd have some books/DVDs for sale. But he just said 'well they're cheaper on Amazon!!'

I'm going to ask for some of the DVDs for my birthday in June.

 

[Thyme & Me]

I must say on Sunday, I was in mega buoyant mood for some reason, and Tobes was just fantastic. Galloping down tracks, (not super fabby for pulling up, but I was thinking as we were galloping along, I am really enjoying this!) And then he was just so good, came straight down into walking, still on a track, but no dancing or mucking about. Praps because I didn't feel nervous???

Well I am certain horses can pick up moods, so if you are feeling YEEHAA and having fun, they he is more likely to feel that way too!

I remember years ago going on a riding holiday. I was told in the office that I was riding Jester and that he was a lovely safe ride, very forward going, but with good brakes. When I got onto the yard, I asked for Jester and out he came. As predicted he was lovely and forward going but sensible with good brakes.

I was later told by the escort rider that I had ridden him really well, considering he was such a spooky loon most of the time!!! Turned out I was not supposed to be on Jester at all but Chester! But I assumed Jester would be sane and would stop. So I rode him with that clear expectation. And he behaved exactly according to my expectations!

 

[sjp1]

Expectation I guess can change a lot.

Am def going to try thinking four beat, two beat, three beat. I am not at all a visual person, more a kinesthetic person and I find visualisation very hard. Our transitions are dreadful, canter is dreadful because we seldom strike off on the right leg, but this could be all my fault because I am not particularly thinking canter or three beat.

Sounds like you had a wonderful session with Thyme, am so pleased you are back on track again.

 

[Thyme & Me]

I am not at all a visual person, more a kinesthetic person and I find visualisation very hard.

That's interesting because one of the other things Mark said a few times was 'don't visualise it, feel it'. Ie turn your attention to the feeling you want, rather than trying to picture it. He said pictures were too static, whereas feelings flow. And he said you can't picture a transition anyway, you just shift from one static picture to another, which introduces that brace or interruption in the flow of movement.

 

[sjp1]

Shall try - here is where we find out that not only am I unable to think, I am also unable to feel!!

 

[Thyme & Me]

Rode again today, playing around with some more of the ideas from the Mark Rashid clinic....

Energy Flow
I started with rhythm in walk. Feeling 4 beats, slowing down and speeding up the 4 beat pattern with energy and intent. And it really did work. Actually when I say 'slowing/speeding' I dont really even mean that. It was about how it FELT. Thyme may not even have been going quicker, but it just felt as though we were riding a wave of energy and effortlessly moving forwards...It was very, very weird.

When I was watching the clinic there was a horse-rider combination and all I could see was that a horse was walking around in a circle while Mark was saying 'there it is, lost it again, there again, feel that? And there it is again etc'. And I was watching thinking WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO BE SEEING! It was invisible to me. But Mark could see it, and clearly from the rider's reaction, she could feel it too.

Anyway, when I focused on flow and on energy and rhythm, Thyme & I had moments of connection. That's the only way I can describe it. Then the connection would be lost. But now I know what it feels like, I can strive to reconnect whenever we get off each others wave length.

I was able to bring her down to halt and up into trot quite easily through thinking about rhythm. Then I changed the rein and it wasn't happening on the other rein. It was very strange. Thyme was responsive enough. I was not using lots of leg - in fact I was barely touching her and I was still able to get trot transitions easily enough. But there was something missing. It felt as though her feet were sticky. She felt heavy. There seemed to be something blocking the forward flow of energy. The idea came to me that the only reason she was still walking on was because I was focusing so firmly on the rhythm. As if somehow I was carrying her, mentally! I got the idea that if I stopped thinking about forward she would grind to a halt. So I did. I just sat quietly on her, but switched off the forward focus, and she stopped within a few paces. However she then turned and went straight over to a cone that was lying on its side in the middle of the arena. I hadn't even noticed it. She spent about 5 minutes sniffing it, nudging it, pawing it. Obviously intensely curious about it. I let her explore. And when she had done enough of that we started again, and this time her focus was more with me and we got much better energy flow.

Perhaps I am over-thinking things but it seems to me that while my attention was on forward, hers was on the cone. So while she was compliant with my aids, we did not have the same mental focus and there was an external barrier to the flow of energy.....

It also brought to mind something on Parelli I had read on an NR thread when someone wrote the key principles (can't remember now how many or precisely what they were called). Anyhow one of them was that the horse had a responsibility not to change gait/speed unless asked by rider. I disliked this idea as for me it conjured up this notion of a passive rider on a robot-horse. I have met a few robotic Parelli-trained horses (which I am happy to accept may well be due to the mis-use of the approach, not the approach itself. I don't know, I've never done Parelli), so I dismised this idea. I hated the thought of asking for trot then sitting there till the end of time while my horse patiently trotted around with no further input from me.....

Now however I see this idea completely differently. When Thyme and I were connected and had established a trot, we were BOTH trotting. My energy was flowing forwards, my focus was forwards, my mind was with the rhythm. I was not passive, I was a fully involved participant in OUR trot. And when I had that feeling there was a sense that we would continue in this rhythm until I changed something. Those moments of connection were fairly fleeting, but it was like tuning a radio - when words/phraes came through the noise, it was unmistakeable. And magical.

After the transitions and rhythm work, I decided to do some lateral work. Part of me wondered whether I was kidding myself about all this. That I had mesmerised myself into a state of grinning idiocy while my horse continued behaving as she always had. Perhaps I was coming over all Neil-From-The-Young-Ones... (First you grow the seed....)

So I decided to ask her to DO something very specific that she does not actually know how to do. I chose lateral work becasue she struggled with this in my last lesson. She can cope with shoulder in but could not leg yield from the 3/4 line back to the track. Even with the aids applied 'correctly' and the RI alongside giving additional direction to her. We gave up very quickly as she was getting frustrated.

Today I did turn on the forehand which she was fine with. Then tried turn on the haunches. Now this really was bizarre. I'm rubbish at left and right, and visualising directon due to a brain injury. So I was focusing on what I wanted but was asking her to turn with the WRONG LEG ON :mstickle: And Thyme went were I wanted to go, not where I was asking her to go :angel:

I then tried side-pass. I rode down the centre-line, put on light rein and leg aids, and she calmly stepped over sideways to the track.........:inlove::wub:

I love my lovely horse. And THIS is how I want to ride from now on. Just need to find an RI who can help me with it. Zen Horsemanship!! Any recommendations?

 

[KarinUS]

Sounds fantastic!
To be honest for some reason I find that connection and communication still a bit easier with the RI's horse than with my own. Maybe the difference is focus? The RI horse is more experienced and less easily distracted by cones/goats/etc. so better able to receive my attempts at 'telepathic communication'. Or maybe I am more focused at RI than at home?

Tapping into these kinds of things is kind of a double edged sword for me. I am excited to see how much is possible and how wonderful it is when it works. On the other hand it makes me feel bad about all the 'bad' riding my poor gelding DJ had to endure with me.

We can change it now though and do better from here on out.

As for RI you probably already have seen Jane(&Z) and I go on and on about how much Mary Wanless concepts have changed our riding. If you haven't already explored this option maybe see if you have an MW RI nearby ? (I know it appears to be polar opposite of zen riding since it's already called 'ride with your mind' but I think they're very compatible)

 

[Thyme & Me]

Learning from Mistakes????

Today was an exercise in making assumptions...doing the wrong thing...making things worse..... Then taking a deep breath and starting over again. Thankfully horses are generous and forgiving. I hope.

Thyme won't reliably stand still on request. She stands still plenty of times, just not specifically when I WANT her to. In the arena today she kept walking backwards whenever I took up the reins to get on. "Make the wrong thing difficult; make the right thing easy" is a phrase that came to mind, so whenever she took a step back, I backed her about 10 paces. Then let her stop. Repeat. Trying to get her to think 'much easier just to stand here...'
However she didn't come to that conclusion at all. Instead, after about 4 back up episodes, I faced her stirrup, gathered up the reins and she bit me on the bum! Cue instant predatorial instinct! I backed her 20/30 paces. Fast. I was vaguely thinking along 'respect' lines but to be honest I had at that moment totally lost the sense of what I was 'teaching' her. And I was certainly communicating ANGRY & UPSET & FRUSTRATED.

Stop. Drop. Breathe.

This isn't working. Look at it from Thyme's point of view. What is happening.........

It occurred to me that 'making the wrong thing difficult' is only likely to be effective if the horse is absolutely clear that the 'wrong thing' is wrong! And furthermore knows what the 'right thing' is supposed to be.

In my typical human ego-centric way I assumed that she knows that I want her to stand and is choosing not to. Strange assumption about a horse who has been generous and willing since the day I brought her home.

It further occurred to me that she backs very readily from the ground. Just with the faintest pressure on her mouth: So perhaps taking up the reins is being seen as a cue to move back. The fact that I then made her continue going back could well be 'teaching' her that backing up is the RIGHT thing!!! After all, I seem very keen on it. And if she is backing, as requested, no wonder she's getting narked at the fact that every time she obeys me I get crosser and more predatrorial. Frankly I deserved a bitten bum. At some point she was going to say 'hey, cut me some slack here. I'm going back as fast as I can!'

I decided to get on without taking up the reins first. She stood still. Hurrah.

But poor Thyme having to put up with me.... :redface:.... KarinUS said on her diary that this awareness is a double edged sword - great to be learning but hard to stomach all the unfair assumptions and crappy decisions and unclear communications that have gone before and are still going on.

Well I am where I am with horsemanship. I can't be better than I am right now. All I can do is keep asking questions, keep questioning the answers and hope that we figure it out in the end!

 

[KarinUS]

But poor Thyme having to put up with me.... :redface:.... KarinUS said on her diary that this awareness is a double edged sword - great to be learning but hard to stomach all the unfair assumptions and crappy decisions and unclear communications that have gone before and are still going on.

Well I am where I am with horsemanship. I can't be better than I am right now. All I can do is keep asking questions, keep questioning the answers and hope that we figure it out in the end!

I think that's all there is. And honestly in some ways us novice new horse backers may have an advantage there.
Look at my experience with the professional trainer. He's been doing his job for years, believes he's doing it 'right' and follows his system.
We question ourselves much more frequently, reevaluate what we are doing, are aware of our shortcomings and know it's all a work in progress.
The advantage of this is that because we are constantly evaluating the feedback, we will hopefully be able to be more flexible in our approach than somebody who has been there and done that and is convinced they got all the answers already

 

[Thyme & Me]

Thanks KarinUS :smile:
You may be right about the importance of being willing to question ourselves. I felt so bad when I realised I was confusing (and then punishing) Thyme. On the other hand 10 years ago I would not have even questioned the fact that a horse moving backwards when I try to get on is being naughty. As for a horse that bites...... The concept of self defence or communication would NEVER have occurred to me. And around me all the time I see the same assumptions being made, the same impatient jerk on the reins, smack on the leg, growl or shout. Rarely do I see people taking responsibility for their horse's behaviour, admitting they were wrong or unfair to their horses, and trying a different way. And if I can make mistakes and expect Thyme to forgive me, well that works both ways too. Yesterday I FINALLY got a sense of what 'seeing the horse's point of view' might mean. Before it was kind of an abstract idea, whereas now it is developing some teeny tiny roots in real life.

Well today I went to ride with no real plan as to how to address Thyme's standing still for mounting issues. I figured that attempting to teach her just confused her so I would simply turn up with no plan, make no assumptions and see what happened. I led her into the arena. Stood still by her head for a moment then faced her stirrup to mount. She immediately offered backwards movement. (I was seeing her behaviour as 'offering responses' rather than 'being naughty or awkward'.) I stayed still and she eventually stopped going back. I then faced the stirrup again. Again she moved and I just waited. She stopped. Third time - moved off again. I stood still 'nope, not that'. Fourth time she stood still and on I hopped. Now THERE'S a willing horse. :inlove: According to my teachers, I am supposed to correct her when she does the wrong things by putting pressure on her then releasing when she gets it right. But I reckon (and I'm still just guessing here) that Thyme does not need correcting. She just needs guidance. Because she actually wants to be co-operative. So if I correct her by backing her, she just thinks 'Oh I'm supposed to be backing'. Whereas if I do nothing at all, but maintain an air of expectation and clear intent that signals I am waiting for something, she will try to work out what I actually want from her. But how scarily easy to miss her efforts and blame her for my inadequate training methods and garbled comms!

In any case, whatever might or might not be going on in her mind, she now stands still for mounting! At least for today. Hurray!!

 

[KarinUS]

That's wonderful. I feel the same way about Minnie. (guidance rather than correction because when given adequate guidance she happily does it 'right'.) It's easy to fall prey to that old thinking though. I catch myself with that a lot too.

 

[Skib]

I dont usually follow people's diaries on NR (forgive me) but because of Rashid, I am reading your Thyme diary and I am really so impressed. It is really lovely to read you doing all these things that you picked up on in the clinic and understood well, and to hear how the horse responds and the difference it is making for you both. I love it.
I do it. I try to do it. And it is lovely to read about someone else doing it - seriously.

 

[KarinUS]

And it is lovely to read about someone else doing it - seriously.

I feel the same. It's nice having somebody else striving for the same thing, somebody who understands that I am hoping for more than just to be able to 'make her do as I say'.

 

[Thyme & Me]

Thanks Skib & KarinUS:smile::smile:

 

[Thyme & Me]

As for RI you probably already have seen Jane(&Z) and I go on and on about how much Mary Wanless concepts have changed our riding. If you haven't already explored this option maybe see if you have an MW RI nearby ? (I know it appears to be polar opposite of zen riding since it's already called 'ride with your mind' but I think they're very compatible)

Well as I said on the main forum, I have had a look at the website and booked myself onto a RWYM course :dance:
Gotta keep my enthusiam and momentum going :running::running:

 

[Thyme & Me]

First post Rashid clinic riding lesson.... Was really looking forward to this as I feel things are very different since I went. So here is what RI said at various point during the lesson:

* Thyme looks totally different
* she is tonnes better
* she is much calmer with a really soft, responsive attitude
* she is in a great frame of mind for learning - really trying to understand what you want from her.

:inlove::angel::wub:

As I mentioned on the forum, RI's (including this one) seem hooked on 'their way' so I didn't really talk to her about Mark Rashid. She attributed Thyme's improvements to better weather as the last lesson Thyme was fretting about puddles and wind - and to training. But I know that Thyme changed the day after the clinic when I changed my mind set around her, changed my breathing and used more mental focus. And I can't really take the credit for 'training' Thyme either. She just offers me more because apparently she wants to....

I noticed that all through the lesson the RI was talking. Sometimes to correct or explain something but often just chatting. And it was really noticeable that I was not focusing on Thyme or the rhythm or where I was going, because I was listening to RI! I like her a lot, but I think I'll have to tell her to stop talking so much :wink: This is not something I have ever thought about before. I wonder how many other people chat all the way through lessons? If so, how can they be connecting with their horse??

I did tell her I was doing a RWYM clinic and she wasn't overly complimentary. Said they overcomplicated everything and if I understood more than one word in 3 good luck to me! (Ahh, but you see that 1 word in 3 might just be the key to unlock something.....)

Having browsed the internet I saw a clinic/demo co-run by Mary Wanless, Sylvia Lock and Heather Moffett. They were respectful of each other's approaches and happy to learn from each other, and to disagree too. It's s shame their teaching associates cant be as open minded as they are themselves...

I am at the point in my horsemanship where I believe I can learn from just about anyone because my knowledge base is so small. I am also clear that I have some basic principles that I will not violate no matter who is teaching me:

I want to work WITH not against the horse
I want to work on partnership not domination/submission
I will give the horse the benefit of the doubt if she does not comply with a request unless there is a VERY good reason not to.
I will seek to teach her how, not to make her obey
I want to solve causes of problems not symptoms of problems
I want each step of her education to be thorough, rather than rushed.

Those are my 'rules'. Within those I am open to anything!

 

[KarinUS]

I want to work WITH not against the horse
I want to work on partnership not domination/submission
I will give the horse the benefit of the doubt if she does not comply with a request unless there is a VERY good reason not to.
I will seek to teach her how, not to make her obey
I want to solve causes of problems not symptoms of problems
I want each step of her education to be thorough, rather than rushed.

Those are my 'rules'. Within those I am open to anything!

LOVE this!

 

[LBrider]

T&M, I am thrilled that your new approach seems to be rewarding you and Thyme already. I don't have my own horse and therefore can't be as immersed in building the sort of rapport I would like with RS horses, but I'll do as much as I can.
Interesting that you mention RI's talking all the time. I have noticed this too and I don't know if perhaps they feel that if they leave too many silences, the customers will feel they are not 'getting their money's worth'? I do find it difficult though when I am trying to feel the horses movement, make a judgement of whether I need to change what I am doing, and keep tension out of my body, and breath properly, AND am still having to listen to what the RI is saying!
Look forward to reading more.