Nasty pony

R

Rabo

New Member
May 11, 2008
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Derbyshire
www.balanceinmotion.co.uk
I have been asked to help with a really nasty pony. She is an absolute cow:

She is eleven.
She was a broodmare until 3 years ago when someone bought her to break and ride.
She was then sold last year to two unwitting children.
She bites and kicks the children when they try to catch her in the field unless it suits her when she is easy.
She dawdles along unless it suits her.
She dawdles in the school or rushes off.
When I got on her last week, I used my leg, then again and when still nothing happended, I tapped her with a whip when she launched into the air.
What NH work will help her best?
I need to help these girls.
 
I would find out what happened when she was broken in. She may have had a bad time being started so late.

There is always a reason for certain behaviours. If she was just a broodmare has she had regulary dental treatment and what about her back after the foalings?

Well done to help out though. The above sounds like I am judging or something but I am not. Its hard when you are typing to sound how you want to sound !!:)
 
I have been asked to help with a really nasty pony. She is an absolute cow:
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If you're going to try an 'NH' solution to the problem the first thing you need to do is to try and approach with a different mindset. Might sound a bit sanctimonious and PC but the pony isn't 'nasty' or 'a cow', she's just a horse that's learned or been taught to behave in a certain way by her previous owners and handlers. My suggestion for a first port of call would perhaps be to get a good groundwork trainer out to try and assess the problem and take it from there. I personally like the work I've seen IH trainers doing, and if you're in Derbyshire (think that's right!) Debbie Glennan is moving to Ashford in the Water very shortly and would probably be able to help. Her contact details along with others are at http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/content/view/47/97/
 
Thanks for that, I will give her a ring.

No, you aren't being sactamonious. Actually, I do work a lot with horses on the ground, but this one beats me.

I too would normally say that her behaviour is learned or defensive, but actually, I think this is a nasty horse, however, I think she can learn to control it - as we do with anger management.

It will be great to see her a bit happier and the girls.
 
Have faith! I'm no specialist, just keen on horse behaviour. I worked with a pony that was looking at a one-way ticket after giving both barrels in the chest to the mother of two kids that rode her. She refused to be caught & was really bad for them to handle & no-one wanted anything to do with her. She was being kept in full time as a result.(The family was not the most horse-wise). She'd been cleared by a vet. I checked her history & she had been fine about 3 owners back.


I worked on building trust,handling (massage / grooming) avoiding confrontation, which gave her an association of enjoyment, then leading exercises, around poles & practising halts, backing & walking in hand. She was extremely resistant, & tried every trick including trying seriously to crush me against the fence if we got close enough!

After 3 of these leassons, including a spot of lunging (which she'd apparently been difficult with), she suddenly decided to accept my leadership & transformed into the sweetest, most biddable pony! She was put out in the field, & would trot to meet me & walk with her head under my arm (!)

Shortly after, she was sold on, fortunately to some very experienced riders. She was a naturally 'alpha' type mare (very bossy herd leader) & I think her temperament had deteriorated when she had a series of weak handlers, she couldn't tolerate the lack of firm leadership, so took over. If you can track your mare's history, especially her breeder, you could perhaps get an indication of her original temperament.

I have heard of an ex brood mare who was so dedicated to having babies that she was extremely unhappy when changed to a ridden life-style & very resistant. She reverted once returned to stud.

Good luck - it is really worth while trying to figure out problem behaviour - the animal always has a good reason from it's own point of view.
 
Just to give an idea of where to start, it would be useful to know what your NH experience is so far, as it's not easiest to start with a "difficult horse" and I personally wouldn't want to give advice that might get someone hurt. What is the natural horse certification that you hold?
 
Mares that have been brood mares, then asked to be riding mares can be challenging,.... why should they behave?

Nobody has ever asked them to be beholden to humans before.....

Having said that, some of the best riding horses can be old broodmares, that is IME. But they are not always they easiest to train, not naughty or evil, nothing could be farther from this, just remember, you are asking them to change their whole way of thinking.

You don't need to look any farther than common sense. Keep the lessons short and fair, IME brood mares are harder to train than stallions.
 
I think you've got a point there Wally. What I'm trying to say is, if you're relatively new to NH (so that you need some pointers on what to do) then maybe this mare isn't the best horse to learn on. But then I see that Rabo has some natural horsemanship certification, so maybe I've assumed too much, so Rabo, that's why I asked. :)
 
If you are new to NH the last thing I would play with is a challenging brood mare.

New methods, plus challenging horse = ending in tears.
 
One of the best and worst mares I had was a 9 YO brrod mare, once she had things straight in her hed she was devine......it took a wile to get her to the stage where she was reliable.

One of our brood mares is the only horse EVER to have nailed me 3 times......so far......knee-capped three times, I thought she'd learned her lesson each time, and she thought I'd learned mine :D :D :) ;)

However, after 12 months we are starting to come to an understanding, .....we think......I am begining to see her as quite a dear little mare........until she nails me again when I am not looking.
 
Wally said:
Mares that have been brood mares, then asked to be riding mares can be challenging,.... why should they behave?

Nobody has ever asked them to be beholden to humans before......

Having said that, some of the best riding horses can be old broodmares, that is IME. But they are not always they easiest to train, not naughty or evil, nothing could be farther from this, just remember, you are asking them to change their whole way of thinking.

You don't need to look any farther than common sense. Keep the lessons short and fair, IME brood mares are harder to train than stallions.
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this is sooo true, my little mare suki was a complete nightmare when we first had her, she had been a brood mare, she was easy to break, took being backed as naturally as can be but just hated being trained. she would go days not being caught, longest was a week, out at night on her own, never come across such a stuban mare . sent her away on loan to a local riding school after having my daughter and it really did her good, she was a very dominant mare in the field, and being put out with different horses did her the world of good.i had to cut the loan short as they wernt looking after her through the winter properly and she went ridicolously thin, she has only now after being home five weeks calmed down with her food now got to get her back into fitness.
 
Interesting point re. ex broodmares, not one I'd heard before. Rio is one and was also broken to drive and then ride relatively late in life. She is the kindest thing you could wish to meet on four legs, but has definite opinions and an iron will. I'd just put that down to her gender and native breeding, is this suggestion down to the lack of handling early in life or something specific to being a broodmare?
 
Well, broodmares are used to putting their naughty little foals in place aren't they, so perhaps a lot of them just extend their bossy behaviour to humans? It certainly sounds like this pony has learned that she can control humans as well as foals.

I've only ever met one truly nasty mare in 21 years of being around horses. Unfortunately she was about 16.2hh, shod and built like a brick outhouse. She kicked me and sent me flying, leaving me with a lovely legacy of hip & pelvic imbalance problems! I was only about 14 at the time so I didn't really analyse her, just tried to keep a distance and not upset her, lol! But I'd love to know what made her so aggressive like that. I've never met another horse quite like her since, she thought nothing of biting and kicking at the drop of a hat. Never seemed frightened, just extremely dominant and aggressive. Strange.

Rabo, difficult without seeing the pony, but can you start with really, really, low key, basic groundwork - getting her to yield to your body language and so on? I suspect that once she will acknowledge you as leader, you will have a much easier time with the riding etc. But I bet it will take a lot of patience and perseverance to get the initial submission!
 
Lot depends on the amount and quality of the handling she received during her brood career, and as a result of that, what sort of experiance she went through during backing, in this case, id suspect possible heavy handed and forcing the issue.

Id go right back to stage 1 with her and re-start work in hand, do a whole wash, rinse, lather, repeat regarding backing & at the same time put in the hrs to build some trust and bonding between you.
 
i prefer 2call them ponies with attitude:D
Sounds like my old shetland,god she had spunk lol she battered me a few times when i 1st got her &then once she realised i luvd her we kinda bonded dont know why but i jst perservered and won:D
She was a nightmare with strangers thou:(
If kids ran throu the field she'd take chase and knock them over or grab an arm in her mouth oh and also kick but have 2admit that once they were on she was good as gold,even hacking out on road.
she loved under her front legs and her tummy scratched and would groom me in return which was nice unless wearin a vest:rolleyes:
I even had 2move off one yard cause she attacked the woman:eek:
Maybe not much help but least your not alone:D
xx
 
I think that riding her is causing some sort of resentment, like you mentioned, lazy & moods changable, she doesn't seem to be willing. I would start right afresh from the ground, in her space & get her to like & trust you, take very small steps & do it in her time without pressure & as safely as possible.

I find this way always takes longer but less time in the end without the tears. She is used to being a mum or preggers - that is quite a demanding life & yes she probably thinks the last thing she needs is to be 'told' what to do, not saying you are doing this but that is how she may feel. Maybe she actually just likes being a mum instead! A confused mare IMO.

Good luck. x
 
"Having said that, some of the best riding horses can be old broodmares, that is IME. But they are not always they easiest to train, not naughty or evil, nothing could be farther from this, just remember, you are asking them to change their whole way of thinking."

Of course she is going to be difficult. She has been putting foals in their place and now the boot should be on the other foot. She doesn't want to accept it.

I have dealt with a lot of difficult horses, in fact, I get them mostly when the owner is at a dead loss and I work with them and help the owner and it pretty much always goes to plan.

I worked with Emiel Voest in Holland and then used La Cense and also been on a couple of Monty Roberts Intelligent Horsemanship clinics. I don't consider myself a beginner in NH.

I also have over 25 years of ownership, teaching, training and judging.

This horse just seems to be a complete Jackle and Hide characteur - one day she will be OK, even nice when its all on her terms, the next, she will attack from the other side of the field. I don't want to see the children hurt.

When I work with her on the ground, I get her thinking and working with me, but the girls can't do it.

Any ideas?
 
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