Overgrown paddock advice

[Leopardhorse]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum! I hope this is the right place to post this question !

We have just moved into a new property with 5 acres of grazing, however the grazing has not been grazed or cut in maybe about a year we are told.

The grass is maybe hip height, with some falling over now, not all standing. There is lots of thistles, lots of Dock plants (I think), quite a few Ragwort plants. Everything has thrown out fresh seeds everywhere because of the time of year (August, UK), and you can see all the white fluffy seeds all over the long grass.

My question is what should I do with the grazing. I don't have horses at the moment ( I am returning to riding from about a 10 year break). I have found a horse I am very interested in, and want to get the grazing sorted asap !

Should I get the fields cut by a farmer? - I don't know how easy this is to do, also as I am new to the area, I also don't know anyone yet!
If I can get it cut, should I ask them to bale it or move it, - the cut grass can't just stay on the ground where it has been cut?

On top of that, there is Ragwort and Ragwort seeds (don't know if the seeds are toxic?) all in the grass, (as well as the Dock, thistles and very small Hawthorn saplings) so the 'hay' would be unusable?
Some of the Ragwort has gone brown now also and some of the dried parts fallen in the grass, so I'm guessing the grass needs to be cut and cleared for any dead brown Ragwort bits that may be hidden in the long grass?

This may be a silly questions, but I am quite confused with all this, I can't just turn horses out in the long grass to graze down 'as is' without getting the fields cut? I am going to get to work digging out the Ragwort as soon as possible, but unfortunately as I say dried parts are lurking in the long grass, and seeds everywhere also.

Sorry for all the information to throw at people! - Just a little lost on what to do here.

Thanks so much

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I would love to reply, but I honestly am not the best at this, there are others on the forum who would know better. My inclination would be to remove the ragwort I can see and top the fields - that means rough-cutting everything down to 6 inches or so. Then over time you can dig out the dock and other perennial weeds and start to get on top of the ragwort. I wouldn't use weedkiller because I would want to keep dandelions, nettles, vetch, clover and all the other things that horses can eat.

I am so envious of your 5 acres!

 

[chunky monkey]

The way i see it you have a few options.

1. As its gone past the prime haymaking time. You may struggle to get some farmers to make into hay. Baling damp hay just makes the baler go bang, rather costly. Night drawing in equals dews. Wet hay does not bale. The old saying make hay while the sun shines. You might get away with it still though if you are in a dry part of the country. But act fast. Are you on fb. Join your local farmers group or horsey group and stick a wanted post on there asap. As you say its waste height, it will be a thick crop so unlikely to dry out enough. Maybe someone with a big round baler might get away with baling it.

If you can get it baled the only sensible thing to do if its full of rag is to burn it, not poison livestock feeding it. If you burn it i hope you are no where near neighbours cos you wont be popular.

2. If you can dig out as much of the rag and burn that just get field topped.
Downside would be too much clipping if you are getting a horse soon.

3. So maybe leave an acre or too untopped so you can graze that as standing hay over winter.
How soon before you get a horse. I would concerntrate on a couple of acres. Dont worry about docks too late in season. Nettles horses will eat as they go over especially once theres frost. Just do poisoinous plants and rag now. Then set up stripe grazing on those two acres for the horse to munch through. Once the horse has grazed out you could just get any residue topped off or get yourself a brushcutter with metal blade so you can nip off docks and brambles. Let the horse eat out first and you just tidy after the horse. You wont need to feed hay until it gets really cold. That two acres should keep you going a while and hopefully allowing time for the other 3 acres to rot down and mulch the land. Then you can possible use the rest for grazing late winter.

4. Offer the grazing to a local farmer for cows. Tb movement restrictions may be a problem though.
Sheep if the field is fenced well. But only for a few months get them off before they churn it up.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Jessey]

I’d go at a small section to remove the ragwort by hand then graze it off, tidy up behind as @chunky monkey suggests then putt rag as you go before opening new strips up.

 

[Lollykay]

From what you describe, the land has not been fertilized or de-weeded for years and not being mowed down for a year has allowed all of those weeds to flourish.

Agree burning the entire five acres (as long as there aren’t any valuable trees) would be best, if you don‘t have close neighbors. Inhaling the smoke from that might cause allergic reactions, plus your neighbors would probably hate you for life.

I‘m in the U.S. so treatment may be different. We have a weed killer that is horse safe, called 2-4-D. It will kill all broadleaf weeds, and ragwort if the ragwort is sprayed at the right time of year. It will not kill weed grasses.

In my area, liming the fields will help keep the natural grasses healthy which, in turn, the good grass would push out the weeds as long as it’s kept mowed.

Five acres is only about 2-3 hours worth of mowing on a small tractor - it’s enough land you need to invest in a tractor. Depending on the terrain, either an XL garden tractor or a subcompact tractor because they are work horses.

Also, “a horse” needs a companion. They are herd animals. Much to think about so don’t be in too big a hurry to bring a horse onto the property

 

[Huggy]

Agree with getting it all topped, after you've done the ragwort. We had 2 of our overgrown fields topped this year, and the horses were on them again within a month. Beware doing it too soon though - one of ours has grown messy again (brambles) already, despite the drought!

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

Topping really helped my winter grazing, to my surprise!

 

[diplomaticandtactful]

Deal with the ragwort, the rest can wait. I let some of ours grow very long and stalky as it is less sugary. We have good doers so we don't mind it not being lush and green

 

[**ziggy]

I think I’d be inclined to pull and burn the ragwort.
Split the land, top one half and offer it as sheep or cattle grazing and use the remaining as standing hay turn out as mentioned above. You will actually be in a better position than lots of us. Mines so bare it will be pure mud as soon as we get rain. The standing hay will prevent poaching and mud.

 

[**ziggy]

Actually if your on face book there is a group called Land management for horses with Dr Schofield or something similar, I can double check that if your interested and can’t find it.
Some useful advice on there.

 

[Leopardhorse]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for my delayed response! Thank you for the advice, I have been out pulling the Ragwort today and yesterday, I have cleared almost one paddock now!

Completely agree we need more than one horse, I've just found one at the moment that I am really interested in .

If I let the horses graze on the long grass as it is, (and had the other grazing topped), would the grazing long grass paddock be ok to eat? - I ask because as I'm pulling the Ragwort, despite my best efforts (putting the seed heads in a bag and cutting them off inside the bag first so trying not to spread more seeds, and then pulling the rest of the plant from the root to put in the wheel barrow), there is still a lot seed that has gone into the grass (from before we moved to the property, literally just moved in !), and also a bit of dried Ragwort leaves have fallen into the long grass, I try my best to fish them out, but there's no way I can get all of the bits.

- My question is despite me pulling the Ragwort out, there are still going to be some Ragwort seeds and some dried leaves in the long grass, can I graze on this? - I would of thought it would be kind of like feeding the same as hay with Ragwort bits in it? I would say it is every now and then your see bits of leaves, the long grass isn't saturated with them or anything, but its occasional your come across them, I have tried to fish as many as I can out.

On burning, we have some farm land between us and the neighbours, maybe about an acre buffer. Might sound silly, but does this mean topping the field, and then gathering all the hay into a big heap and burning it?

We are in the South Essex, the weather has been so hot here, everything is so dry :/ I would be worried about burning at the moment :/.

Thanks so much for the advice so far

 

[Leopardhorse]

Hi **Ziggy,

Would love to check out that page ! I will try and find it Thanks !

 

[Huggy]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for my delayed response! Thank you for the advice, I have been out pulling the Ragwort today and yesterday, I have cleared almost one paddock now!

Completely agree we need more than one horse, I've just found one at the moment that I am really interested in .

If I let the horses graze on the long grass as it is, (and had the other grazing topped), would the grazing long grass paddock be ok to eat? - I ask because as I'm pulling the Ragwort, despite my best efforts (putting the seed heads in a bag and cutting them off inside the bag first so trying not to spread more seeds, and then pulling the rest of the plant from the root to put in the wheel barrow), there is still a lot seed that has gone into the grass (from before we moved to the property, literally just moved in !), and also a bit of dried Ragwort leaves have fallen into the long grass, I try my best to fish them out, but there's no way I can get all of the bits.

- My question is despite me pulling the Ragwort out, there are still going to be some Ragwort seeds and some dried leaves in the long grass, can I graze on this? - I would of thought it would be kind of like feeding the same as hay with Ragwort bits in it? I would say it is every now and then your see bits of leaves, the long grass isn't saturated with them or anything, but its occasional your come across them, I have tried to fish as many as I can out.

On burning, we have some farm land between us and the neighbours, maybe about an acre buffer. Might sound silly, but does this mean topping the field, and then gathering all the hay into a big heap and burning it?

We are in the South Essex, the weather has been so hot here, everything is so dry :/ I would be worried about burning at the moment :/.

Thanks so much for the advice so far

I wouldn't burn at the moment either. I've cleared all the hay wastage in the barn, ready for our hay delivery - normally we'd burn it, but not this year, not for a good while anyway.

 

[**ziggy]

Hi **Ziggy,

Would love to check out that page ! I will try and find it Thanks !

Let me know if you struggle and I will attempt a link or at least make sure that name is correct!

 

[Jessey]

The odd leaf will rot away in weeks, the seeds should be down into the soil in that time too, so unless you’re bringing horses in immediately I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

 

[Leopardhorse]

I'm thinking maybe 3 weeks or so before horses might be here, do you reckon the odd bits of Ragwort leaf will have rotted by then? This may sound silly, but I am just a bit overwhelmed by it all and I don't want to harm and animals by putting them in an unsuitable field :/.

Can I ask on the burning topic, does this mean topping and getting the topped material in a heap and burning it? Sorry if this sounds silly.

 

[Jessey]

It really depends how warm and wet it is over the coming weeks, you’d have to wait and see if it’s rotted away by then, I would expect it will as long as we get rain. Whole plants take months but the odd leaf won’t take long.
The other thing is to find yourself temporary livery for the first horse, which will cut you some slack on sorting the field out and give you more time to find a suitable companion too.

 

[Leopardhorse]

Thank you I will consider the livery option . There is a livery next door, but I think their pastures are full, but I intend on asking them tomorrow or the weekend.

Good to hear the odd leaf will rot down kind of quickly, we just need some rain :/ its so so dry everywhere!

I contacted a farmer today about topping the fields, he said he can do it this coming week. I am however quite concerned if the Ragwort is topped and left this pasture wont be ok to graze?

He said it will rot down, and the leaves are the only toxic bit so don't worry about the stems still in the ground and roots. ---- Am I wrong or is this not right at all?! He was very much 'this is not a big deal' type attitude. Surely it will take a long time for the topped ragwort, thistles and long grass to rot down? And also all of the plant is toxic right?!!

I really don't know what to do, I'm beginning to think I wont be able to get a horse. I think someone on here said about getting sheep to graze this down, does anyone have any experience of this?

I'm quite worried because I don't know what to do :'(

 

[Leopardhorse]

The farmer said he will come next Tuesday

The way i see it you have a few options.

1. As its gone past the prime haymaking time. You may struggle to get some farmers to make into hay. Baling damp hay just makes the baler go bang, rather costly. Night drawing in equals dews. Wet hay does not bale. The old saying make hay while the sun shines. You might get away with it still though if you are in a dry part of the country. But act fast. Are you on fb. Join your local farmers group or horsey group and stick a wanted post on there asap. As you say its waste height, it will be a thick crop so unlikely to dry out enough. Maybe someone with a big round baler might get away with baling it.

If you can get it baled the only sensible thing to do if its full of rag is to burn it, not poison livestock feeding it. If you burn it i hope you are no where near neighbours cos you wont be popular.

2. If you can dig out as much of the rag and burn that just get field topped.
Downside would be too much clipping if you are getting a horse soon.

3. So maybe leave an acre or too untopped so you can graze that as standing hay over winter.
How soon before you get a horse. I would concerntrate on a couple of acres. Dont worry about docks too late in season. Nettles horses will eat as they go over especially once theres frost. Just do poisoinous plants and rag now. Then set up stripe grazing on those two acres for the horse to munch through. Once the horse has grazed out you could just get any residue topped off or get yourself a brushcutter with metal blade so you can nip off docks and brambles. Let the horse eat out first and you just tidy after the horse. You wont need to feed hay until it gets really cold. That two acres should keep you going a while and hopefully allowing time for the other 3 acres to rot down and mulch the land. Then you can possible use the rest for grazing late winter.

4. Offer the grazing to a local farmer for cows. Tb movement restrictions may be a problem though.
Sheep if the field is fenced well. But only for a few months get them off before they churn it up.

Hope this makes sense.

Thank you , this does help can I ask though with the topping, how long does it take to rot that down so it can be grazed again?

I would try my best to dig up all the ragwort, but if some is still lurking in the long grass I may not see it :/.

I have tried my best to comb 2 acres (from the 5 acres) of ragwort, and I think ive basically cleared the 2 acres now, but theres bits of dried ragwort leaf in the long grass I simply cannot guarantee I can get the leaf bits, but as Jessey said these bits should rot down in a few weeks. I am still worried incase I have missed any ragwort in the long grass though. Feels like a bit of a nightmare but maybe I'm stressing too much? I just don't want to harm any animals.

The farmer said he can come this coming Tues to top the fields, I'm not sure I can ask his advice for anything though, when I asked about the Ragwort topping he said dont worry about the cut off stems and roots left over in the ground as just the leaves are poisonous -- I'm pretty sure the whole plant is toxic!?

 

[Jessey]

The whole plat is toxic, but if there’s plenty of other grass they’re unlikely to eat living plants, though that’s not a sure fire solution.
Also if the grass is really long when topped it can lay too thick on top and kill the grass underneath, I had to do it a couple of years ago and had to go out and kick it around so it didn’t die in those spots, then I got my guy to come back and flail mow it again to further chop and spread it. It wasn’t ideal but I didn’t loose much and it recovered after a few months.