Planting aka testing me out!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Iwantahorse!
  • Start date Start date
I

Iwantahorse!

Guest
HI all! Ruby and I are doing really well, she's putting on condition and is brill on the ground to do in all ways. However...she's decided to now test me out lol. I know it's common for them to do - I've seen other posts on here but to be honest I never paid enough attention to see what people suggested.

We've had teeth, back, saddle etc etc done, so I know she's trying me out lol.

For example, Saturday, beautiful day, tacked up and set off. Ruby plods forwards like we've just finished a 20mile hack lol. Hmmmm, some of you might say "Oooooh, definitely not a happy horse", but i have to say she's ears forward all the time and interested in everything, i think she's just plodding because she doesn't want to do any work. Any way, on saturday we got about 10minutes away form the field and she planted. No response to the leg or seat. I managed to get her forward again, then she planted again - planting then moving backwards trying to turn for home. When I did eventually turn for home Ruby amazingly found her enthusiasm and practically jogged home lol.

So I defo think she's testing me out, my friends say i'm too soft, but I honestly tried to get her forward using voice, seat and leg but she wasn't having it. Obviously I want to get her out of this incase it develops further so I'm taking her out in hand more and I'm going to do that same hack as Sat with her in hand. Now, she responds really well with a dually so I think she'll not even attempt to plant in hand, but I'm wondering whether a whip might help when riding her? And before the anti-whip brigade start to post on my thread, I'm thinking of taking one in the hope that Ruby just knowing i'm carrying a whip will prevent her from planting, it's got to stop - I can't have her planting on the roads or backing up, it's not safe for me, her, or other people.

Anyway, what do you all think and can anyone tell me what they did with their planting horse?

If this thread becomes a battleground I will close it immediately so please think before you post, the majority of you are brilliant and give fantastic advice but there's always one that can cause an argument in an empty thread lol!:D
 
Hi there,

I get this with my share horse, and have just discovered that when she plants her feet and won't go forward or step sideways, she will rein back a couple of steps and then I can immediately move her forwards.

It's not exactly a solution, stopping it altogether would be better, but meanwhile it's a help - so far it's worked every time, but I wonder if she will cotton on to the trick! She doesn't listen to the whip at all, by the way, if I tap her she just stands there like "Ho, hum, did you say something?" and I don't want to beat her with it obviously!

I'd be interested to hear other people's suggestions.
 
My daughter's pony was a little b*gger for this when she first got him - but it was always on the way BACK to the yard (work that out!). He literally grew roots and refused point blank to move.

Whip didn't work for him either. It was truly disheartening he just wouldn't move a step - there were occasions when a half hour hack took 3 hours. After having his back, teeth etc checked out it was obvious he was just trying it on.

So... we bribed him a bit. He responded much better to gentle coaxing than trying to boss him about. If she dropped the reins a bit - and someone on the ground was there to tell him what a clever/brave/fabulous pony he was - he would eventually take a step. Cue loads and loads of praise (and maybe a polo)for any movement at all. This may not be the correct way but it worked for us.

This was 2 years ago and he very rarely does it now - think it's just about them having built up a good partnership tbh. He will occasionally nap as a response to any stress (quite often on the way into the SJ ring - once in he's fine!).

Hope you get some helpful advice here and good luck with Ruby.
 
My dad's Belgian x Morgan cross had that problem, with his previous owner. He tried it on me once, but once I saw his shoulder drop, I corrected it with a nudge and he went on at the speed I'd asked. When you ride, watch his shoulder, it usually gives the tell-tale sign that he's about to plant (i.e. it drops) and nudge him/her on. He hasn't tried it since with me, and if he has, I didn't notice it and corrected it as soon as he showed signs of slowing down.

Of course, if your horse is just stopping without the signs, that's a different story.
 
Bobbi does this sometimes if I ask her to leave the yard on her own. She will stop dead, and if she moves at all, it will be backwards. However she is VERY responsive to a whip, so I only need to tap her VERY lightly with it once and she will move forward. I don't carry a whip all the time but if she knows I have it then she is less likely to plant.

I don't like to use a whip to make up for my inadequacies but I would prefer to tap her lightly, rather than keep kicking her.

It may be worth a try, you may find your horse suddenly decides to listen to you, or it could show you that you need to try another tack.

Definitely keep up with the in hand work too, I think it really helps.:)

Good luck!:D
 
Before you lable it as 'just testing you', it sounds like this horse is new to you, so probably new to her environment too, perhaps new to what you ask of her. Horses, being prey animals are nervous of things they're not accustomed to & likely to behave like this when they're worried. So I would use 'approach & retreat' tactics to gradually get her happier about going out for now. I wouldn't use a dually or some device to force her into it, which in the case of fear will often make matters worse(proves there's something nasty about) but would ask for just a little at a time, being sure to release immediately & reward the behaviour. As Hammie suggested, asking her to do something she can do, such as backup or sideways can often 'disengage' their mind from the fear reaction. Might mean you don't get very far in the immediate future, but you're setting her up to be happy & confident to go where you ask in the future.

The other side of the coin, if/when you are positive it is not fear related, I would suggest a crop or such is a possible answer. Whatever you ask of a horse, you need it to be effective if you want them to yield to it & not brace against or ignore it. Therefore, while you cue as lightly as possible to begin with, if the horse doesn't respond, you need to take it to a level of discomfort if necessary to get a response. I don't believe you need to 'up the phases' to a level of pain, but make it uncomfortable, then just persist until you get a response.
 
Thanks all, some really good advice in this thread :)

My main concern was the fear response associated with the whip - I don't want Ruby to respond through fear - I want her to want to go on further. I'm not into NH as such, and although Ruby is a big lass (16.1) I have never felt overhorsed with her because she is so good to do in all ways. we had a dually on her just as a one off to see how she would respond and she was fab with it, I thought if we could use it to get her past these little barriers she's setting for herself then it might help in the long run?

It's a bit of a catch 22 sutuation, she has to go with my commands but at the mo she is dead to the leg when she does this, and I didn't want to carry a whip because she is so good on the ground and as a hack bar this planting business. I always have someone on the ground with me and even their responses don't encourage her. My friend said that Ruby looks as though she know exactly what she's doing and has a very crafty look when she's doing it lol!

I've had her since January, and yes, it is early days, but I have to take control of this because if she thinks she can get away with it once it'll cause further problems. I backed her up on Sat then turned for home but to be honest I couldn't physically or verbally make her respond to go forward. we're having a manage built in the comng months and my instructor will help me to reschool her but until then it (hopefully) will be just hacking out.

I'm going to walk her in hand to the beach this aft with the dually and get her out for a couple of miles on the sand. I wish I could video Ruby so you could all see what a lovely nature she has and why I didn't want to have to use extra aids with her, it's hard to explain on a post exactly how I feel lol, but I guess that most of us who post on here feel like that.

Thanks again - I'll update when I get back with how we progress today :)
 
I've been on a few horses who have tested me.

had a gelding had i never ridden before start pigrooting, mini rearing and everything.. all because his owner let him get away with it .. but i never got ditch i sat it and rode him through it, he came good and man can that horse ride well now!

I had another, older mare.. She decided it would be fun to start randomly leaping side ways in canter unexpectedly, that was slightly interesting! LOL!

Benny has tested me, bareback especially.. Galloping him bareback in a halter and he randomly starts pigrooting.. he puts his head between his legs and then starts buck humping, it's funny because he stops after like 3 .. and then i go "OI" and continue, it's Benny..

My old horse she would run backwards and throw her head and go side ways, She was green as grass, i'd just get her going forward.

so manyyy horses that test you, it's like a never ended SONG!
=]xxx
 
Do you have a short route you could use to make a 'treasure hunt' game out of?
ie go out and 'plant' some carrots etc. Then lead her out and 'go carrot hunting'. This give her a reason to go and also will help with the 'rushing home' syndrome. On top ofthat she will see you as a person thats good to be with cos you know 'how' to find all these goodies!!!
Do it in hand for a couple of days then try it ridden, adjusting where and how many carrots are out there........
 
ArabianPrincess - crikey, puts my minor problem into perspective lol!

Well, took her out in hand today with dually on and she was a star from start to end, really made my day. Previously we introduced it only once in the field to worm her, I swear she knew what we were going to do before she even saw the syringe that day. Anyway I took her past her usual planting place with no objection, onto the sand with no problem and through the sea water channels and wetter sand with not one dickeybird of a problem. As we headed back to the field I carried on straight rather than towards her field and she didn't even falter to go home, I was very happy with her lol. everytime I pinpointed a place in our walk that i wanted to get to and didn't respond to her until we reached that place - then I would give her reward through voice and fuss. I'm going to take her again tomorrow out in hand for a long walk then will hack her out tomorrow evening or Friday to see if there's an improvement.

Thanks again for all your responses :D
 
Iwantahorse! said:
My main concern was the fear response associated with the whip - I don't want Ruby to respond through fear - I want her to want to go on further.
Click to expand...

That's good. I would first desensitise her to whips, etc, then teach her to respond to their 'pressure' before I attempted to use one in a situation like that.

As for wanting to go out... Make 'the right thing' easy - ie. if you get her to go forward, reinforce it by turning her around & going home, and gradually ask for more as she improves. Rewards - that is, positive reinforcement, Good Stuff - are also important. Make it worth her while. As someone suggested, you could make a 'treasure hunt' & plant treats along the way, or take her to a good grazing spot, some friends, give her a good scratchie.... whatever she truly likes. IOW, not just 'praise' or 'fuss' which is generally pretty meaningless to horses.

It's a bit of a catch 22 sutuation, she has to go with my commands but at the mo she is dead to the leg when she does this, and I didn't want to carry a whip because she is so good on the ground and as a hack bar this planting business. I always have someone on the ground with me and even their responses don't encourage her. My friend said that Ruby looks as though she know exactly what she's doing and has a very crafty look when she's doing it lol!
Click to expand...

What, aside from 'crafty' exactly is her bodylanguage when she's 'stuck'? Does she have her head low or high? Ears forward or back? Is she stiff & bracey for everything, or only moving forward? I still think it sounds there's a fair chance she is actually worried about something. If not, not wanting to back up your cues with something effective such as a crop is only teaching her to ignore you, because that behaviour works.

we're having a manage built in the comng months and my instructor will help me to reschool her but until then it (hopefully) will be just hacking out.
Click to expand...

I really think you need to work on the basics a lot more before just expecting her to go out & about with you. You don't need a menage to do that, just do it wherever you are. I'd be working wherever she's comfortable with for now - say around your property - and would be getting her good & reliable there before asking for more.

Sounds like your first outing with the dually was good, and going out with her in hand is a great idea. I'd be preparing her so you can do it without the gadget tho. Get her good & reliable at going out on lead, being ridden around the property & you should then find you're about up to taking her out.
 
Regarding your concern about using a whip; using fear and force is what riders who lack the understanding and communication skills necessary. It's not about making your hrose do what you want just because it's easier to, or because he fears the consequences if he doesn't obey. And no being - be it a human or horse - ought to be punished for expressing what they think. It is perfectly justifiable for a horse to behave in this way, in his eyes, so if he is not happy then it is your responsibility to ensure that he does not feel the need to behave in an undesired way in the first place, rather than trying to repress it. If the trigger is removed, or your horse is taught how to deal with the situation then he shouldn't feel the need to fight you.
Remember to give your horse every reason to follow your lead and trut your judgement. A horse cannot trust a person that he fears, and fear is often a result of pain. So using force and discomfort is not like to make your horse trust you, or feel inclined to follow your lead as a sense of resentment may develop.
Using a whip or pressure devise can be useful, but I don't think either are particularly suitabkle for this horse in this situation as the opposite effect is likely, if the horse feels the need to fight you even more to make you listen to what he is trying to say. These training devices target the symptoms (the behaviour) instead of dealing with the cause of the problem itself, which means that the cause for your horse's behaviour - which I believe to be insecurity and a lack of trust and harmony - will remaion.
Bearing all of this in mind, good lkuck and I hope that you find a method that works happily for both of you. So don't worry - you don't need to sacrifice your horse's happiness to get him to do what you want! :) So I second developing your relationship, trust and leadership with groundwork and by going back to basics first to develop your horse's confidence in both himself, and you.

x
 
I don't know if this will help you, but the horse I have just started riding was doing a similar thing at the weekend - stopping for no reason I could see and refusing to go forwards, even running backwards. I managed to get her part way round our ride before she stopped in the woods and wouldn't go forwards. I didn't want to teach her to call the shots by taking her home, the way she wanted to go, so instead we just sat there, me asking nothing of her, for about ten minutes until she realised there was no harm in going forwards in the direction I wanted her to, and we completed the rest of our ride without incident. I did feel that giving her that bit of time and space made a difference...
 
I have uncoventional methods on this

when they are planted I swing them from side to side, that way its worse for them than acctually walking on, not harsh like, but seriuosly use my body weight and reins to make the front end step left to right

so that even though they are napping they still are being made to move they usually walk on

but if that fails

I turn them round and make them rein back in the direction I was going, after abiout 10 m they usually want to turn back round

at which point I say Oh no this was your idea and make them do another 30m or so

when they turn back round they usually go after that

just repeat so they dont acctually stand still

be sure your horse has the right fitness level for the amount of work being asked for tho before you try it, :)

hope you get sorted
 
Hello! my girl does exactly the same...so will be reading with interest.

She's no probs in company but we are trying solo hacking now and we'll get a short way down the lane then she plants - the other day it was a white van, she doesn't normally bother with vehicles at all - maybe it was because it was parked & not moving (who knows :o?).

I try to encourage her on with seat, legs, voice - whip if I think she's 'trying it on' but not if I think she's genuinely frightened. However chances are she won't budge. Some people say 'get tough' but what does that really mean?? My girl isn't a kick along either she'll move off on voice only if she wants!
I'm not going to sit there using the whip endlessly as to me its counter-productive, I've already asked every other which way and I don't want her to associate hacks on our own with that.

What I've tried....I tend to get off, walk her in hand for a little bit then get back on again...a bit of a pain but if they are new to it then its taking it one stage at a time. I've also just sat there for a while making her stand completely still until she gets bored or realises what made her stop isn't that scary afterall. Its all a bit trial and error really and little and often too.

I find if I do a hack in company one day and then do the same route on our own the next its not so new to her and she's a bit better. Other thing is get someone to go with you to somewhere, even if they are on foot to go infront only when you need it, and then when you've gone a good distance from your yard/field head home by yourself...they are generally much more confident on the way back - mine is!!

Good luck - let me know if anything works for you as I'll try that too - I'd love to be hacking properly on my own by the summer:p
 
ArabianPrincess said:
I've been on a few horses who have tested me.

had a gelding had i never ridden before start pigrooting, mini rearing and everything.. all because his owner let him get away with it .. but i never got ditch i sat it and rode him through it, he came good and man can that horse ride well now!

I had another, older mare.. She decided it would be fun to start randomly leaping side ways in canter unexpectedly, that was slightly interesting! LOL!

Benny has tested me, bareback especially.. Galloping him bareback in a halter and he randomly starts pigrooting.. he puts his head between his legs and then starts buck humping, it's funny because he stops after like 3 .. and then i go "OI" and continue, it's Benny..

My old horse she would run backwards and throw her head and go side ways, She was green as grass, i'd just get her going forward.

so manyyy horses that test you, it's like a never ended SONG!
=]xxx
Click to expand...


its is your right there.........think my worse one springs to mind was the mare who used to rear stay there for ages then shrink behind and leap out of it into a massive buck, that was the hardest one i did, apparantly spectators aid there was daylight between the 6 foot fence and me and the horse when it lept out of it :D

it acctually stamped its feet every few strides in temper when i had her from behind into hand :) in walk because i was still on it :D

she got there tho :)

or teh one who decided it diddnt want to school any more and started smashing through mangae fences after chucking off the rider, serious straight through the fences ........bang gone Im freeeeeee :)

it got a shock when it went mental and raced to the fence I let it get there then achored it right so it skidded across the menage on its arse and hit its face on the fence, I was bare back still then cos it was terrifeid of the tack

it diddnt do it again

and ended up qualifying for puk first time out so worth it, we was at hoys doing workers and her owner and i watched the hack class....she said where do you think my horse would be if it was in that class

I said about half way up the north circular by now :)

but both planted terrably for a week or so after riding through the phstco Im gonna scare you get you off phase

and the swinging and backwards was ideal and worked for both

but yeah I rekon once you solve this you might get something else it goes on for a while until they realsie your not having any of it :)

youll find your way :)
 
Last edited:
Wundahoss - As for wanting to go out... Make 'the right thing' easy - ie. if you get her to go forward, reinforce it by turning her around & going home, and gradually ask for more as she improves. Rewards - that is, positive reinforcement, Good Stuff - are also important. Make it worth her while. As someone suggested, you could make a 'treasure hunt' & plant treats along the way, or take her to a good grazing spot, some friends, give her a good scratchie.... whatever she truly likes. IOW, not just 'praise' or 'fuss' which is generally pretty meaningless to horses.What, aside from 'crafty' exactly is her bodylanguage when she's 'stuck'?


Yeah, that's how Ruby and I work together, it's not in me to give negative reinforcement, I'm just not a fan of working like that. And th 'craftyness' is just a look that Ruby has in her eye, a 'clever' look, her body language is always good (ears forward, head and neck relaxed as normal, no tension in her movement). We're so lucky because a lovely sandy beach is right opposite her field so that is our temporary school lol. I had a really experienced lady take her on there today and she put her through her paces, doing lots of transitions (no whip) and Ruby was fab. Lady said she just needs building up slowly and reponds to voice with leg, so I really do think she's just been testing me out.

I'm just too soft on her, I know I am, I've always said there's no pressure on Ruby and we're taking baby steps at a time with her condition improving every week. She is totally the opposite of the chestnut TB mare sterotype - a real confidence giver usually but, lets face it, the lure of spring grass or work tests most horses at some point lol. I feel really confident we're at a turning point. Also, across the paddock form Ruby is a yearling with very early stallionesque behaviour and I think this has affected Ruby in a few ways. He's being moved on Saturday so we'll see how she goes. Thank you all, I was worried this thread would turn into a debate on whips lol but it just goes to show people can give really constructive advice on this forum :D
 
Iwantahorse! said:
Yeah, that's how Ruby and I work together, it's not in me to give negative reinforcement,
Click to expand...

Just to clarify - because negative reinforcement is a valuable tool, but I think many people confuse it with punishment or something...

'Making the wrong thing easy' is an example of negative reinforcement(-R). The term means Taking away(negative, -) something undesirable in order to strengthen(reinforce) a behaviour, making it more likely to be repeated. Eg. when you put your leg on a horse, he moves away from it & you instantly release that pressure, that's -R.
 
Didn't read any of replies but your post reminded me so much of my first pony! Lol used to have that the whole time. Thought he was scared the donkeys in the field but no he was just being a lil bugger... I sorted it out with a whip once and it never happened again in 3 years but if your not comfortable with this then I wouldn't do it.

To be honest what I would do is either to try walk on the ground with him in the dually? Or if you have a day I would not turn back and sit there on her until she gets bored of her games and realises that this is what mammy wants her to do and she has to do as shes told....

I think its really important you sort this out to be honest because backing up turns into rearing and stop like this turns into bolting home so I am glad you want to tackle the problem now. But from the sounds of it it is a lack of respect there and maybe try some groundwork to gain a bit more respect?
 
Hi,
I had a similar problem earlier in the year and I tried wonkeywoody's treasure hunt idea. It worked for me (the only time I got to try it). I also got off and lead forward for a bit before remounting which also worked. I felt at the time that it was like 'giving in' but perserverance won out. I had some really good esponses to my plea for help so you may find the below link to my posting helpful too.

Good luck and keep persevering!

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176578&highlight=napping
 
newrider.com
Top Bottom