Problems catching horse- Very aggressive response

honestley, its like playing a mind game with them, they do come good, but i personally think it will always be in the back ground. lol my mare will rear at me on the ground if we have a tiff,

BUT she also knows the boundries.

the plus side is when you have them as yours they are so rewarding., its all your work.

although im a big hater of parelli, i dont say write it off, try everything, until you find what works for you.
 
Right...I know it isnt a solution, but i had a bit of a realisation today..

Decided that i would most likely be a bit safer if i left a headcollar on him...but obviously, I didnt do that yesterday :rolleyes: so had to catch him first.

Went over, and instead of just standing infront of him and then moving the headcollar towards him, i managed in one swift movement, and with the aid of a carrot, to be standing by his side, with my arm over his nose, facing the same direction he was. From there was no fuss to get headcollar on etc. I'm pretty sure that i did exactly the same thing on sunday and monday when I want to catch him, and he was good as gold.

I think in some respects, if i hang around in front of him he see it as hesitance, not as me meaning business and actually wanting to catch him. who knows though. Managed to get headcollar on, get him outside the gate to a bucket of feed, but then was feeling decidedly flaky (have some viral thing) so let him finish that and then just put him back in and had some fuss over the gate.
 
Hello,

Well done for getting him snd btw I am no expert whatsoever, however this method of yours seems to only 'mask' the problem! I would work on why is he like this as opossed to coming up with a tactic to grab him, even when he is doing this.

If I were you, I would (and I know not everyone is a fan) get some NH books/someone out/research it on the net, and have a good old read about them. I am not saying you have to become a parelli fanatic, but I do think here (as he seems quite nasty and a littel dangerous) that some groundwork would definitely aid your situation and help your bond and your general understanding of him and the same with him to you. It can only help.

There is, kelly Marks, Mark Rashid, Richard Maxwell and some others out who explain alot about this issue you are having.

Anyway best of luck.x
 
lottie.dot said:
Well done for getting him snd btw I am no expert whatsoever, however this method of yours seems to only 'mask' the problem! I would work on why is he like this as opossed to coming up with a tactic to grab him, even when he is doing this.
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I was just spotting a pattern thats all- he is the kind of horse who tries to exploit weaknesses- it worked for 9 years and got him out of several beatings, so he does like to try it on now and again if he thinks he can get out of something.

I am going to be trying some of the tactics people have offered and see how we go, in my experience he hasn't related that well to NH in the past, but I'm not against trying again..
 
I had the same problem with a horse some years ago, he used to run past double barrelling every time anyone went to catch him, he'd up this by then charging at you with teeth bared.

I did the "go into the field and ignore him", taking a book, saying hi to the other horses and not him, walking straight past him, and then leaving the field for a week. He got a bit curious and after about a week of me just being in his field would come over himself. Sometimes he still wouldn't be caught, so I used to make him walk on / not let him stop until I would allow him to, which didn't work for him at all as he felt defensive and got more aggressive. The ignoring /paying attention to others in the field was definitely the start of sorting the problem.

Stubborness and patience worked for me especially as once he was able to be caught he then started planting on the way back to the yard - a 1/4 mile walk used to take at the worst 2 hours, with me moving him backwards and sideways and then he would plant. We'd spend hours standing there, me pretending to be happy that we weren't moving and then suddenly he'd walk on when asked.

His thing was he thought he was the boss, more groundwork and time spent with him showed him he wasn't in control. Once I proved I could move his feet and also that he could trust me to behave in a regular way he was fine. He would revert everytime he moved fields to ones with better grass. The funniest episode was one morning, I'd got up early to ride before working from home for the day. Got to the yard at 6.30am, went to the field to get him and the heavens opened. He almost put his own head in his halter but them remembered who he was and wheeled away at gallop. Spent 2 hours herding him at walk to the gate / splitting him from his friends - each time he'd let me get within a whisker and then wheel off again. He wouldn't be tempted by carrots or by blackberries from the bushes in the field (he loved those).

Finally, starving and soaked I remembered the carrots in my pocket that he'd spurned earlier. I cracked one in half and started eating it for my brekkie. He heard and started to watch me. I ate the other half and then split the 2nd one, at this he came trotting over, shoved his head in the headcollar and stood like a lamb. :D
 
Like i say NH always has an answer, but people have to put their trust in it first....hope you find an answer for your horse x
 
sounds like a tricky 1 he sounds like its all become to much to handle for him poor sod imo he just needs to go back to basics u don't want to spend lots of time with him just 10 15 minutes at a time don't take head collar just a lead rope feed him and just rub him with lead rope then when u have his trust try teaching him some thing simple be consistent firm but fair remember short lessons doesn't mater Wat u teach him just pik something don't chase him let him come to you and if he turns his bum on u thro the lead rope at him and laugh the leader of the heard will all ways get the attention of subordinates that turn there bum on them it works
 
team shane said:
sounds like a tricky 1 he sounds like its all become to much to handle for him poor sod imo he just needs to go back to basics
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Not sure I quite agree with this- I more feel he is playing me like a good'un!
He is a tricky one- knows what he wants, and will try anything to get it. pretty sure, based on the past few days that this isnt a fear reaction, its a dominance thing. which needs serious work.
 
shoniedaspony said:
Not sure I quite agree with this- I more feel he is playing me like a good'un!
He is a tricky one- knows what he wants, and will try anything to get it. pretty sure, based on the past few days that this isnt a fear reaction, its a dominance thing. which needs serious work.
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yep it usely comes across that way as trying 2 move u arownd is eazyer for him than trying to work out wat u want him to do
try teaching him 1 thing for a week 10 15 mimits a day will do it dont let him tack his atention of u and youll se a diff promise
 
when mine was sore but not showing any lameness yet he was doing the same thing as yours when being caught. A few days after he started this behaviour he was slightly lame. It was his way of saying "don't want to come in to work it hurts"
But if you're only catching him to give him his feed and not to work then I don't know.
 
although my mare doesnt get aggressive she can be nervous being caught, i realised the other day that she's nervous when i am wearing gloves! i approach her and she backs away, i have to retreat and re-approach, maybe up to 2/3 times and usually give her a treat before trying to put the head collar on her.

a friends horse got aggressive being caught in the field, turned out she wasnt generally happy with her routine, they moved yards onto a yard where every horse has to be in at night and now shes a happy as anything as she has a routine.
 
I think it sounds far more like a fear reaction than any kind of dominance. Horses don't lunge at humans (predators) they're far more likely to run from us. It's only when they've repeatedly attemted to get us at a comfortable distance and failed (when we act aggressive and chase them, and keep following them) that they will go up to their next level, which is fear-based aggression.

I would not try any NH techniques at all with your horse - I would phone and consult a qualified behaviourist who understands how to deal with fear-based aggression. Somebody like Jenni Nellist (Glamorgan and West), Nicky Parsons (Yorkshire), Suzanne Rogers (Surrey) or Helen Spence (N.I). These are just people I know - there are lots of others, but just because someone says they know about horse behaviour, doesn't mean they're qualified (and insured) to advise about problems with aggression - check their qualifications ;) At least give a behaviourist a phone call - you'll find they have a real understanding of what's going on - and it won't be dominance, trying to get one over on you or just being naughty :)
 
It's not something you did :(

But it is putting you in danger, and that's why you should really speak to someone who can help... I promise it will help you will feel better about the whole thing :) There are lots of things that can help, but you need expert help - it's like if you have a child who has problems at school - if they don't seem to be coping with lessons, you speak to a teacher. If they're attacking teachers or other kids, you need a psychologist...

Horses are the same, but we feel we have to cope with everything ourselves because "it's just a horse".

What happened is very scary, and I think you would feel better with a bit of support :)
 
I've just lost all my confidence now, and i just can't see that even if some of the behvaiour was changed, that I am going to be able to move on from this...
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I can see why you feel that way - I think it's a totally natural thing to feel after what happened.

For the moment, just think of it in terms of the things you can do for, say, the next few days - do the minimum you need in terms of keeping him fed and warm, and you (and other people who would normally handle him) safe. And speak to someone - even if it's just a phone call and you don't decide to get someone out, it will help. It doesn't cost anything for a phone consultation :) and you get to speak to someone who understands how you feel.
 
capalldubh said:
And speak to someone - even if it's just a phone call and you don't decide to get someone out, it will help. It doesn't cost anything for a phone consultation :) and you get to speak to someone who understands how you feel.
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I will try that avenue once I am past the point where even thinking about it makes me cry, otherwise i will ring up a heck of a phone bill to just cry at someone i dont know down the phone :o

Its really getting to me- I've had him for 3 years, and I knew that he was screwed up, but it's never got this bad...and I don't know why- nothing else has changed, and i just feel like its all too much for me now.
I guess as always, I should have listened to my mum! :o
 
Hey:) Long time no speak, sorry bout that and sorry to hear that pony-boy is being a bit of a handful atm.
You've managed to lure me out of my chronic lurker status, damn you :p
This is going to sound as if I'm just dismissing the problem but I'm honestly not. A few thoughts I had on reading your description:
1) you've had him a while now, and since he is a changed pony, it stands to reason that he doesn't completely distrust you
2) he's never had a real catching problem before
3) the spring grass has just started to come through
4) you've got a very busy few weeks in front of you work-wise.

So...the way I see it; I wouldn't panic or do anything drastic immediately. If there's a way you can catch him (even if it is just by grabbing him quickly) then use it and try not to make a big deal out of it - since this is a new problem after so many years it might be that he's just enjoying the milder weather and the grass, that he's "going through a phase" and it could disappear on its own.
If things still aren't right then once you've got your work in go all out to find a solution, be it a NH trainer or whatever :)

If nothing's drastically changed or happened, I find it difficult to believe that he's suddenly decided that he's got to boss you around or has been traumatised again...

Thoughts?
 
shoniedaspony said:
Its really getting to me- I've had him for 3 years, and I knew that he was screwed up, but it's never got this bad...and I don't know why- nothing else has changed, and i just feel like its all too much for me now.
I guess as always, I should have listened to my mum! :o
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