Problems when lunging

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indienf

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Mar 22, 2004
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Bethy used to be a saint to lunge but over the past 6 months or so she has got worse and worse, until I now can't lunge her at all.
1) She won't actually do it, stands beside me until I actually lead her out onto a circle.
2) She then proceeds to walk round nicely for a few circles before starting to p!ss about and refuse to work.
3) Trot and canter are a general no-no, she will quite often do a circle and then pretend something is scary, bolt, buck, rear etc, then when I send her on again and make her work through it, she turns in and confronts me. When she does that I square up to her and make her go out again. Sometimes she does what I say, other times she fights back.
4) I had a friend watch me lunge her a few times and she said that I was standing level with, or in front of, Bethy's eye, making myself seem more confrontational. Once I moved back behind her eye and formed a "v" with the lunge whip, myself and the lunge line, she was better.
5) Same friend lunged her, and although she had a few problems (Bethy taking the p!ss mainly) she did get her going like she used to.
6) Working her in side reins on the lunge doesn't help, she's worse if anything.
7) Usually worse when she's in season.
8) I did think she's just testing me out and trying to be dominant - she's that kind of mare (naps sometimes when ridden as well,) but her ground manners in the yard etc are pretty much perfect - she doesn't barge anywhere, she stands quietly to be mounted etc.
9) Can't see any common factors on the occasions when she has done this, but it's not like she's bored because she isn't lunged that often - never has been.
10) Another thought - she lunges slightly better, but not much better, in one sand school than the other as it's less scary in one.
11) Sorry for the long post but I'm really at my wits' end with this, does anyone have any ideas what to do?

Thanks,

indienf
 
first question to try and answer is whether this is physical or behaviour ?

Is she trying to tell you something about herself ? (i.e. its uncomfortable) ?
You would probably see signs elsewhere if this is the situation e.g. in grooming, handling, riding.

If its not - then this is about boundaries and communication.

1) are you clearly communicating to her what you want ? If not, how is she going to get it right ?
2) is doing what you ask a must or is it negotiable - sounds like she's "negotiating" to do it her way ;)

Ok - back to the "clearly communicating". You say
She won't actually do it, stands beside me until I actually lead her out onto a circle.
Click to expand...

So how do you ask her to start lunging ? What cue do you use and is it clear and obvious ? I normally start lunging by walking them forward for a few steps anyway, and then ask them forward, out and away.

And
I had a friend watch me lunge her a few times and she said that I was standing level with, or in front of, Bethy's eye
Click to expand...

Actually its not that this is directly confrontational - but it IS a cue to slow/stop :eek: So could she be trying to do what she thinks you are asking, and then getting confused and frustrated when you tell her its wrong ?

When you are lunging, you can change your position to drive more or less (or be neutral). Try it out and find where you get the response you want..

Be clear, calm and consistent...

One other thing to say - "BHS" style lunging tends to have you stood in the middle and pivoting around to keep facing the horse. I don't lunge like that - I walk with the horse, in a smaller or larger circle depending on what I am doing. IMHO this is much easier !
 
How big a circle are you using? How old is she? How long do you lunge for in one session?

When she's being a pain to lunge, is she ok ridden? How is she at bending when ridden (is she more difficult to ride in circles at these times?)?

Sorry for the questions....
 
I would say this is behavioural, I keep a very close eye on her back/teeth/anything physical that could be causing her a problem. Forgot to say earlier that after she's bolted and come back to a walk, despite me telling her to keep walking she will stop, turn into me and begin to scrape the ground. Not in a "I'm going to roll" way - she doesn't do rolling, but a more dominant way.
I haven't changed the way I lunge apart from this habit of being by her eye, which I've now rectified, and as she used to be fine with that I think it's just her being an ar$e. I always insist that she does what she's asked - if you give her an inch she will take a mile, so I don't give her that inch!
When asking her to start lunging, I move away from her slightly, flick the whip up and down and use my voice "walk on" etc. It's always worked before, so why she's being an idiot now I don't know. I tried changing my method of getting her to start walking but didn't work, and she's the same with other people. If you start walking beside her then she generally follows you back in no matter what you do.
CVB, I tend to walk with the horse as well, not BHS style but has always worked before, and continues to with my other mare.
Circle generally starts off at about 20m, then once she's warmed up (if we get to that stage without her messing about - which is rare), I decrease the size and increase it to get her working a bit more. She's 17 so it's not like she's a baby, and lunging sessions usually last 20 mins max - 10 mins per rein though if she is being stupid I generally add another 5 minutes or so.
She's fine when ridden, no problems with bending and is perfectly willing to work on a circle.
 
Certainly sounds like she's having a paddy. I did wonder, given that you'd mentioned she was worse in season, if it was maybe a touch of soreness related to that - some mares do seem to suffer more than others as the ovaries swell and become tender - but if she's ok when ridden it would suggest that's not the case. Also some mares when they first start coming into season get rather antsy - but again, at 17 it's hardly going to be an issue!

Do you have access to a round pen at all, where you could try loose schooling her? It might help without the added awkwardness of a lunge line, and give you an opportunity to fine tune body language and get her listening.

Will she long rein? Could you long rein? If she's turning in, lunging with two lines or long reining onto and off circles can really help - it makes it easier to keep forward momentum since as the circle falls apart you can push her onto a straight line and back out onto another circle - get her evasions working for you, in a way - and having the outside rein can work wonders at keeping them out.

I'll have another think in the meantime....
 
I have tried loose schooling her in the past but she simply doesn't understand it at all, and stands there looking at you blankly. Same with long reining, she doesn't get it, and to be honest, with her tendency to invent spooky things, run backwards and rear I would be inclined to give it a miss! Having said that if I catch her on a day when she's calm and relaxed I will give it a go.
Many thanks for your thoughts, keep them coming!
 
when i lunge horses who are being difficult i will bring them back to the walk, shorten the line a bit, and get really behind them. then i will send them forward into the trot. it they are being really impossible i will keep the line short and walk or run with them (in a smaller circle on the inside of their track) and really stay behind them with the lunge whip held parallel to the ground and right behind their hocks. (i try to be really really quiet with the whip when i do this, and some horses will try to bolt if you start flicking and swishing it) as long as you are BEHIND your horse she will not be able to turn and run or face into the center. as she gets better you can make the angle between the lunge line and her hind-end less acute, but you should never be further forward than her shoulder, and should always be ready to swing behind her and move her up. good luck!
 
Want to avoid bringing her back to walk when she misbehaves, otherwise she will start thinking that playing up means less work.
Will give these ideas a try then and if anyone has any other thoughts please post them :)
 
My mare used to be bugger for turning in, and I know how difficult it can be to re-establish your authority.

To counteract her, I lunged her in a corner of the school, so that I had the right angle of the school fence to help me out. I became very aware of my body placement - I made sure that I was always placed opposite her tummy, so that the lunge line, myself and the lunge whip formed a triangle. And to begin with, all I was interested in was her going forward, and keeping the triangle constant.

It didn't take long to realise that when I wasn't being assertive enough with the lunge whip, - as soon as she lost impulsion, and I didn't send her forward from behind immediately, my triangle was lost and she would turn in - and when she'd turned in successfully once, I had a real fight on my hands. She'd took charge of the situation and my authority was lost.

I turned the situation around by using the lunge whip effectively (in other words I spanked her arse, the second she thought about losing forward motion), and making sure that I kept the triangle. The first couple of times I sent her forward with the whip, she did explode, which I ignored as long she she was still going forward - but I kept at her from behind, and didn't allow her lean on the lunge line, by giving good hard tugs to keep her in the right direction, but giving my arm forward immediately so I was compromising her balance.

Being in the corner of the school, meant that the fence helped to contain her for half of the circuit, I just had to keep her going from behind.

Every time she moved forward off the whip I praised, as tempted as I was to shout or reprimand I didn't, when she was carting I left her to it, but gradually reduced the circle, making it harder work for her, and as she lost her gusto and was ready to listen, I asked for trot, but with the whip in place, just in case she tried to turn in - which she did, but I quickly stepped back, so I was opposite her hip and sent her forward again with the whip, ready with my lunge line arm to give a good tug if need be.

Once she'd accepted that I was singing the tune, I only did a few circuits on each rien (be prepared for the same on the opposite rien, remember to swap sides in the school - you need to send them towards the fence. But the opposite rien fight, if any, should be a doddle, unless its physical issue) then I stopped and praised.

I worked my horse on her least balanced rien to start with, as she would tire more easily, so her objections would be compromised by her balance, and she'd be more likely to 'want' listen, as to cart was bloody hard work.

Idientf it does sound as though your mare does not respect your requests, with you saying she won't loose school - stands and looks at you blankly. You need to 'send' her forward with your voice, and body language, backed up with your lunge whip. You must insist that she listens to you.

If your horse is turned out with a horse more dominant than herself, all that horse has to do is put its ears back and shake its head, and she'll move, she'll understand the signals that horse is giving. When you say your horse doesn't understand loose schooling, it can only be because, you are not being dominant enough to move her. When you first start to loose school, all you should aim at at first is to move them and keep them going. Once you've learnt to move them, then you can begin to educate them.

I know its very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that, I don't want to bully my horse into things, and I wholeheartedly agree, but they must trust and respect you, and that is only established by us being the dominant and educational side of the partnership we want to build.

A little more food for thought, hope its helpful.
 
Rhi has a tendency to spin when I ask her to go out ontot he cirlce and even trying to lead her there is a nightmare. The only way I have managed to get round it is to lunge with her with two lines.
 
Dizzy, some good ideas there and will definitely give lunging her in a corner a go. She isn't allowed to get away with much generally - give her an inch and she'll take a mile, but I think with this she scared me - having her fall in on a circle round you, refuse to get out and then rear over you when you make her behave isn't pleasant!
She's turned out with my other mare, but tends to be the leader of the two of them - although Spirit does occasionally boss around, which really p!sses her off hehe.
Thanks for your help,

indienf
 
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