Question: Horse bucking when restrained from canter?

Skib

Skib

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2003
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I hack a mare that can be lively. She's run off with me two or three times in canter in the past and good folk on NR taught me how to stop her, keep her calm and perfect my downward transitions from canter.

When ridden by an AI she behaved differently and when prevented from cantering on, e.g. from barging through to the front of a ride, she bucked in protest.

I must have become a better rider because on Friday she bucked me off.
And she was well rewarded for it since she got to canter around and leap about and then have some grazing too before we managed to catch her. She was wildly over excited all the way home and wouldnt let the escort's horse near.

We'd prevented canter at a usual place because of loose dogs with a dog walker. Then she seemed to spook at birds so I steadied her again, to regain my seat, and her response was to (I am told) go straight up in the air tossing me really high.

I fell from walk, on grass and the ground is soft. Thanks to bp and hat, I was totally unhurt. But my young escort was scared, and I don't want the mare to think this is desired behaviour.

After years of education on NR, I have ideas what to do with her - but as people have noticed the lack of questions on NR these days, thought I'd post the question?
This is new to me and I'd like guidance please.

A supplementary question. Would learning to do transitions on this mare increase her insubordination (or speed off the leg) ?
The RI with whom this horse previously bucked told me not to do walk canter transitions on her, as that got her over excited.
There is big staff turn over and two new instructors (their suggestion) have been teaching me transitions on her: walk - canter, and halt - trot, both up and down.
I enjoy it but should we stop?

A further mystery is why the mare was so lively on Friday when she'd seemed quite staid my previous few rides.
 
we've had a lot of rain, and that has stimulated the grass - if she has access to grazing, she is on a sugar high! So that alone may have provoked it - a lot of them are feeling a bit overexcited at the minute.

if a horse has excess energy and it can't go forward for whatever reason - it's afraid, it's being held back - sometimes they just can't stay still and the energy has to go somewhere - usually upwards, rearing or leaping. it's why napping horses often end up rearing - the rider is creating energy trying to get them to go forward, the horse 'can't' (or won't) go forward because of whatever it is napping at, so it puts the energy being created into going up.
if it's particularly unusual behaviour for this mare i'd lay money on it being the grass. after the dry and hot spell the sudden rain has really made it come through with a vengeance and a few of ours were on a sugar high atthe weekend.

glad you weren't hurt!
 
As usual thank you Mehitabel.
No the RS horses at the school where I hack dont have grazing or turn out.

But everything else makes sense. I was preventing her from moving. And at the time that seemed sensible or even essential? Whereas a year ago I wouldnt have been capable of holding her.
 
yes - it often is essential! but of course they don't know that, so they react how they feel they need to. when i had my poncey warmblood on loan, we often went across main roads on his hind legs because he was fed up waiting for the traffic, i wouldn't let him walk out into the cars so up he went and then because he was a git and the traffic stopped when he was in the air, he walked across on hind legs with me clinging on for dear life...

movement for horses is very much a basic need - like boxwalking, or fencewalking when they are stressed - their first desire when anxious/excited/stressed/tense is to move.
 
So, what do you do if you have a horse with all this pent up energy that you are riding; and you don't want to go fast :confused: . Is it an inevitability that you will end up with a buck or a rear :confused: . How does one deal with it?
 
well, you can try to channel it,m circle, or ask for sideways or something - get he horse's mind off it. ideally of course, what you are aiming for is a horse well trained enough that regardless of the excitement it remembers its manners and behaves! but of course they're people like us and can't always contain themselves in extreme circumstances.

it's the kind of thing that generally improves with age and training - so a baby 4 eyar old might lift its front feet off the floor when asked to hold back a few strides from the pony in front, but a year later you';d expect it to behave in that circumstance.
like people, patience can be taught to an extent, and some will find it easier than others. but all of them will have their snapping point, just like we all do.
 
Glad you are ok Skib - another lesson learned and experience notched in your horsey life.

When Coops bucked me off 2 months ago he was trying to trot home after spinning on me - I was trying to stop him to get one of my lost stirrups back and then to turn him back.
He didn't want to stop so he bucked - his excuse too (I hope) is that he napped in the first place because he was sore with the muscle damage having come back.

In addition we were out with a very sharp mare whose rider is sometimes more badly behaved than the mare is and the rider makes the mare worse - this was one of those occasions coupled with wind, new grass and thirdly pain.

Mehitabel speaks a lot of sense - as always. You only have to watch a showjumping comp and an excited horse at these events well sometimes buck when being held back from flying at the jumps.

She needs to learn not to always canter in the spot but it isn't her fault if you always do, she doesn't get turn out, she is full of beans and then is restrained.


I look forward to hearing how you get on with her.
 
Hi Skib,

Good to hear you're very much in one piece:)

With Monty, one of the key things I needed to learn was to overcome the immediate and instinctive urge to try to shut him down altogether when he spooked or worried. In that kind of situation, me trying to immediately steady him with any restriction via either rein or seat would have probably resulted if not in bucking, then in a half rear or at best bouncing and bracing badly.

If I can ride the spook like it never happened (spot the influence here:D ), then Monty's reactions are hugely improved. He may scuttle forward, or bouce sideways, but as long as I don't clamp down on him, this is just a split second thing. If I grab at the reins or tense, then there's a strong chance he'll throw something else into the mix for me to deal with:rolleyes:

I also agree with re-directing the energy. Riding with awareness is something I'm practising, if I can spot the behaviour before it happens, then I can give him something else to think about instead. Unfortunately, sometimes things just happen too fast for me to do so, so then I revert to plan A (see above:p ).

And breathe.......:)
 
Even if the poor thing doesn't get any turnout spring and hormones may be a factor. The problem you've got is that you only have a very limited infuence on this horse and are therefore limited to dealing with symptoms rather than causes. Having two horses that like to 'go' at times all I can suggest is trying to limit your restraint to when the horse is trying to go and look to release it the moment you can when they aren't. If the horse is literally exploding under you that may not be possible, but it definitely helps if you can. At least then they can work out how to make things easier for themselves, mine tend to go 'OK, no gallop here then today' and walk on now.

Glad you're OK though :)
 
I have a similar problem with Spyder out on hacks. He gets very antsy turning round on the spot (which we have to do sometimes - narrow bridlepath) as many years ago he was allowed to canter home, and although he hasn't done anything faster than a walk on the way home for about 6 years, he still anticipates turning! Because of this I've got nervous with turning round, so I hold him back, he gets annoyed and bounces up and down, then tries to shoot off and pass the horse in front. I've found that the best thing to do in this situtation is just try and relax and to a certain extent ignore the horse, keep an even contact on the reins, keep your breathing steady and keep your legs on them. As soon as you feel the horse has relaxed and isn't likely to shoot off, relax your reins a bit as that will reward her for not cantering off.

I agree with Mehitabel's suggestion of channeling the energy elsewhere - eg. lateral movements, and another one maybe to try, although it sounds silly, is talking to the mare. Not only will the sound of your voice hopefully get her listening to you, and calm her down a bit, but it will also help to relax you if you do get tense in that sort of situation. I often find if I repeat over and over again "steady, steady, steady, good boy, steady" in the pattern of Spyders walking footsteps, it helps keep him in a nice rhythm and stops him wanting to run off!
 
I'm glad you weren't hurt, skib. Anytime someone our age comes off, it's always a fingers crossed and hoping situation. :)

Just curious, you mentioned an "AI" -- did you mean "RI" or is that a different abbreviation that I'm not familiar with?
 
Mehitabel said:
we've had a lot of rain, and that has stimulated the grass - if she has access to grazing, she is on a sugar high! So that alone may have provoked it - a lot of them are feeling a bit overexcited at the minute.
Click to expand...

That also goes some of the way to explaining Harley's overexcitement this weekend!

I don't have anything to add to this sage advice - glad you're ok:)
 
unfortunately its the kind of training thing that takes a while-difficult as you tend to need to put yourself in that situation to show the behaviour isnt desirable.

used to have the same problem with my horse- he didnt like being left behind which came to a head at a show where there were lots of bigger horses cantering past him.. he could have bolted, but respected my aids enough to no...instead the energy came out in a bucking fit which ended with me on the floor and torn knee cartilage.

From then on we took small steps to resolve it, anything from holding back on hacks and walking further behind, then trotting, and then cantering. He is a lot better now, although he might get a bit overexcited at times. and our last show he was no problem at all, even for other riders.

it takes time and a lot of practise in that situation unfortunately...
 
I think that the change in weather makes a big difference to the horses. Riding wednesday and sunday, nearly everything was feeling that bit sharper and perkier than they had been previously.

Because of this, I have been exceptionally careful with my hacks, especially if taking riders that I have not ridden with before.

On these kinds of days I find it useful to do plenty of trot work. Keeps horses and riders warm, moving forwards but without the excitement that goes hand in hand with cantering. After fifteen minutes of trotting, we're usually settled enough to canter calmly!

Agree totally with previous theories of the horse needing to send it's energy somewhere - and if forwards is blocked, then upwards often becomes the horse's preferred direction of movement. I think it's symptomatic of when too much hand is used and not backed up by any leg - even when you are essentially trying to slow a horse, you still need to be riding 'forwards'. So the leg contact should always remain, and any restraint needs to be in a give-and-take rather than a set pull. As soon as the horse responds to the half-halt, the contact is given forwards and the horse is ridden forwards in a rhythm. The next half halt may only be a second away, but isn't applied until the horse has quickened the rhythm again and so and and so on... The 'give' must always be equal to the 'take'!

Often the easiest solution is to drop the reins and give the horse a pat. Depends on the horse, but usually it results in a calm horse who visibily gives almost a 'sigh of relief' and becomes more than happy to walk on in an orderly fashion!
 
Sometimes they are just determined to go, and if you say 'no', to buck you off and go anyway. Even riding forward doesn't always help, as I found out last week. The moment before the enormous bucks started, was when she'd bunched up in typical 'I'm going to buck now' mode, and I'd relaxed the reins and pushed her on with my legs.

The best solution always is more work so the horse doesn't feel that desperate need to run. Maybe that day she hadn't been ridden much, or not much for the last day or two and was feeling really in need of a blast?
 
Echo RachelEvent on the dropping the reins, it frequently does the trick. My old cob would just bomb off if I did that though, so if he wanted to go it was sometimes a case of give in & hurtle off uncontrollably or try to ride a bucking bronco! Best thing to do on a horse like him in my experience is try to keep their head up, as the lower the head goes, the higher the bum can get. A horse can still buck with his head up but generally nowhere near as high. Also getting the head up usually means sitting well back & deep with plenty of leg & carrying your hands quite high, which is the sort of defensive seat you need to sit a buck. As you point out, a buck is often a rewarding behaviour for the horse so it soon embeds....unless you manage to stay on that is!!!
 
when i am feeling the coiled spring feeling, i will hold with one rein and give and take with the other - as in take for 1 or 2 seconds, then give one hand right forward, so the rein loops - hold for 3/4 seconds, then repeat with the other rein. sometimes giving both reins would be suicidal - although it does work more often than not. you can start liek this and work up to giving both at the same time, then givng thme away altogether.
 
My daughter's "bombproof" <yeah, right-snort> horse did the same thing to her last week.

My solution is to make sure the energy is 'checked out' before we get in the saddle. Because we don't ride too often, I have always lunged my horse, making sure she listens to verbal cues, turns, transitions,and whoas before I dare get on. Then, I spend time doing head-gives and a few one-rein stops before we go anywhere. I get a little lazy during the summer after she has been ridden quite a bit, but now in the spring I am extra cautious.

Except I forgot to do the same to my daughter's horse, and she didn't think of it either (not no more-she is dealing with her own horse from now on!) and her horse just bombed off bucking when Katrina tried to keep her to a walk.

I have been working her horse while she is laid up, but we have both learned a lesson- check for attitude before putting a foot in the stirrup!
 
Nothing to add I'm afraid, as I don't have experience of that situation - but just glad that you're ok. Have you ridden since ? I hope it doesn't knock your confidence :(

It's really an interesting experience for me to watch how things pan out, what things work, for an interested person, learning horse, without their own horse ! It is a whole different world when you're trying to find solutions that work, for horses that aren't your own, and that you get to see only under someone else's authoritative eye, and that you get to ride, without having access to their whole training program.... and on rides where the horse already knows the route, and what's 'normal'. Add all that up, and that's a huge number of constraints you have to work with. It really changes the whole game.

I hope you find a solution that works for you.
 
Kally is the same in canter whether on hacks or in the school, and it took me years to find out why! Too much hand and she goes up, either bucking or bouncing, and in extreme cases she hurtles sideways, which is quite fun really, although annoying. I've found it to be a case of too much hand and not enough upper and/or lower leg. I don't know how you ask for downwards transitions, but I found reading Heather's Kinder Way to Ride instructions on them really really useful. I can now clench my buttocks for England :D :D

And as for the upwards transitions, ours are now so much nicer using voice aids and no concious aids anywhere else. It means I'm not over-asking the transition and creating too much energy before I've even started :o
 
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