Really stupid question but.............

[devonlass]

Is there any reason for not using an *english* saddle pad under a western saddle??

I only ask as was looking at some of the decent wool pads that have seen recommended on various western forums,and TBH they don't look so very different to my mattes pad,of course they possibly are but surely the basic principle with all these pads is the same??

Just don't want to get a lesser wool western pad (I say lesser as am not paying stupid money for a pad,and many of them are what I would call silly prices),if I could use a perfectly good quality one that I already have sat at home!!

If not could anyone recommend a not too thick (really don't like the thick pads as can't see how they wouldn't alter fit,and my saddle is what I term a good fit without a pad so don't want to bulk it out too much),wool pad that is NOT stupidly expensive.
If not are there any other types of thin pad that work well and don't cause discomfort to the horse?? I kind of like the neoprene backed pads for grip,but these seem a bit 'marmite' in the western world so not sure??

 

[Stormin]

uhm, for one, an english saddle pad is usually too short under a western saddle (which has a larger bearing surface than an english saddle).
You generally need some kind of padded pad (as opposed to just using a folded blanket like many seem to like) as it acts as the flocking of an english saddle so please don't make the mistake of going for a pad too thin.

As for stupid prices, I know what you mean but you often get what you pay for.
The pro choice air pads are nice but very pricey. I know western saddler has nice mattes pads too.
I've already had a neoprene pad but
a) horse sweats like hell underneath so
b) you often end up having to use an underpad as well
c) the mane around the withers can get stuck under pad and thinned/ripped out

 

[MAC66]

I've got 2 western saddle pads that I'm unlikley to use again, one's a wool one and the other is an ergonomic one. If you're interested perhaps you could be pm me and we could sort something out.

 

[devonlass]

uhm, for one, an english saddle pad is usually too short under a western saddle (which has a larger bearing surface than an english saddle).
You generally need some kind of padded pad (as opposed to just using a folded blanket like many seem to like) as it acts as the flocking of an english saddle so please don't make the mistake of going for a pad too thin.

As for stupid prices, I know what you mean but you often get what you pay for.
The pro choice air pads are nice but very pricey. I know western saddler has nice mattes pads too.
I've already had a neoprene pad but
a) horse sweats like hell underneath so
b) you often end up having to use an underpad as well
c) the mane around the withers can get stuck under pad and thinned/ripped out

Lol is funny but as soon as I'd posted I wondered about the length of the english pad,however my western saddle is round skirted and not very long in the back (deliberately chosen as have a short backed ponio!!),so *if* my mattes pad was long enough is there any other reason I shouldn't use it?? Seriously it looks barely any different in shape,design etc than the very expensive 5star wool pads I was looking at on the net,so am curious is it just an assumption that we can't use english pads or is there a practical reason for it (other than the length lol)?? Not being awkward honest lol,but don't want to buy something I already have near enough if it's just a case of it *ought* to have a western label on it so to speak.

Thanks for the info on neoprene,I had heard this,but then other people said they loved them so was a bit confused.

In regards to the thin pad thing,I know what you mean but saw many people recommend the thinline pads used with a blanket or similar and just liked the idea of something like that so doesn't bulk out the saddle too much and alter fit,not sure if I have any clue what I'm on about really though so all thoughts appreciated!!:smile:

I've got 2 western saddle pads that I'm unlikley to use again, one's a wool one and the other is an ergonomic one. If you're interested perhaps you could be pm me and we could sort something out.

Will PM you shortly:smile:

 

[Wally]

Wester saddle fit is different to English ones. From what I understad from a Wester saddle fitter the Western pad and blanket is all part of the basic saddle fit and you need a thicker pad under a western saddle.

 

[Skippys Mum]

I have to say, I have a thinline pad and I love love love it. Very few people seem to have heard of them over here but I cannot recommend it highly enough (and yes, I did the test with the egg - you can drop a raw egg onto it - with it sitting on concrete - from a height of 4' before it broke)

 

[devonlass]

Wester saddle fit is different to English ones. From what I understad from a Wester saddle fitter the Western pad and blanket is all part of the basic saddle fit and you need a thicker pad under a western saddle.

I know what you mean wally,and I have heard the same,but then there are just as many people who say now that western saddles should fit without a pad,and that too thick a pad can alter the fit,just like with english saddles,is all most confusing!!

The pad acts much like the flocking in english saddles apparently,so yes a good pad is essential,but there seems to be some differing views on what thickness the pad needs to be,and some of them are very thick,and to me would certainly add a lot of extra bulk and alter the fit of the saddle,but I don't know for sure.
What I really wanted to know originally though is if there is any reason (other than length of pad) that certain english pads can't be used.My mattes pad is probably as thick as many of the wool ones I've seen,and like I said looks very similar to some of the western ones around,so was just wondering if there is a good reason for not using it,other than the fact it's not traditionally a 'western pad'??

I have to say, I have a thinline pad and I love love love it. Very few people seem to have heard of them over here but I cannot recommend it highly enough (and yes, I did the test with the egg - you can drop a raw egg onto it - with it sitting on concrete - from a height of 4' before it broke)

Thanks SM,I don't know a lot about the thinline pads TBH,but have seen them come up a few times on the western forums,and people who have them really seem to rate them.Think for western would need to use some other form of blanket with them,but not certain and this could just be a personal preference of the people I have seen commenting on them.

The attraction for me is the fact they are thin (obviously in view of the name lol),if I can find something that does the job well without the bulk then to me that has to be better from a saddle fit POV??
Like have said though am only going on the limited amount I have read,would have to do some more research I think.

*Hopefully* a fellow member on here has a couple of pads that are willing to sell to me to use for now,but for future reference can you tell me where you got your thinline pad from SM?? Idea of price would be great too if you don't mind.

 

[fairlady]

All the Western Pads, especially 'correctional' pads are extortionate prices compared to English pads but probably because there are not so many
Western Riders in the UK.

I have seen the thinline pads once or twice on EBAY but still expensive.

Pad I am looking at a Cavello pad is £110 which is not a lot less than
I paid for the SADDLE:smile:

I would be interested in any pads that maybe offered and are of no use too you devonlass:smile:

Ummmm I also wondered about the use of English pads:biggrin:

 

[Harry Hobbes]

Is there any reason for not using an *english* saddle pad under a western saddle??

The tree of a western saddle is long, broad, and rigid; by design. It is engineered not to be flexible, much the same as the sole of a "combat boot" is designed not to be too flexible; and for the same reason: to buffer against the exterior points of pressure. This permits carrying heavy loads.

Just as one would wear heavy wool cushion socks with combat boots, rather than thin (cotton) socks (which would result in blisters), a thick pad is used with a western saddle as a buffer against the inflexible tree.

To contrast, English saddles have smaller trees, are relatively flexible, and have "buffer material" (frocking) built in. So thin pads work well with English saddles. And one would wear thin stockings with light-weight dress shoes.

Traditional and working cowboys will tell you that the best saddle blanket under any western saddle is a "Navajo blanket." Navaho blankets are made of soft, yet thick wool. They get wet, absorb some of the moisture, but retain warmth. They are an excellent buffer against pressure points and shock. A Navaho blanket is the functional equivalent of thick, soft, wool socks worn with combat boots.

But quality Navaho blankets are difficult to come by, and rather expensive. (Caveat emptor: there are a lot of "knock off" blankets purporting to be "Navaho." These are not soft, not thick, and not quality wool. I advise staying away from these.)

So nowadays, everyone is making "pads."

Unless your horse is under saddle all day, working hard in broken country, you will not need top-of-the-line performance from a saddle pad. You just need the qualities of a good pair of wool socks against the horses's back: soft, thick, retains warmth, absorbs some of the moisture, absorbs some of the shock. If you use the various rubber-like materials (foam, etc.) for padding, just ensure that you have a soft, absorbent wool pad between it and the horse.

Also, if your horse is under saddle all day, and working hard, then you will need to "pad up" or double-up the padding. The soft, absorbent material goes against the horse's back. But short of cowboying on the Pampas or in the Western USA, you probably will not need to double-up.

Best regards,
Harry

 

[western-saddler]

I have to say, I have a thinline pad and I love love love it. Very few people seem to have heard of them over here but I cannot recommend it highly enough (and yes, I did the test with the egg - you can drop a raw egg onto it - with it sitting on concrete - from a height of 4' before it broke)

Hahaha - you tried it too! We did and our egg broke from only 2' away

Do use the Thinline under western saddles? I tried it but it did not pressure test well.

 

[western-saddler]

Devonlass - does the saddle fit without a pad? A western saddle should basically fit without a pad. I use the pad for minor adjustment and I like to fit as thick as possible to protect the horses back. I also do not like neoprene as there is research out to show that they do block skin pores, etc. I prefer natural fibres and like sheepskin the best.

Is your pad sheepskin Devonlass? Photos of it under saddle? How are the sweat marks? I do sell Mattes sheepskin western and english pads and the western ones are a little thicker. Also, you can add felt shims in to build up the thickness.

There is a point of getting what you pay for. Initially, I sold the cheaper pads - but they really are not nearly as good. And, no-one bought the cheap pads when they saw them up against the expensive ones. In fact, the one I sell the most of by far, is the Mattes shimmable pad. I see many customers with loads of pads and this one allows you to change it to your horses' seasonal or workload requirements. I have seen the Cavallo pad but found it to stiff/rigid - unless your saddle does not fit then that might be a good thing!

I guess western pads cost much more than english due to the amount of fibre inside of them. English pads are not particularly substantial, therefore much less work and material has gone into them. On the plus side, you will not need to get a western saddle reflocked

Harry Hobbes' post is brilliantly written.

 

[devonlass]

All the Western Pads, especially 'correctional' pads are extortionate prices compared to English pads but probably because there are not so many
Western Riders in the UK.

I would be interested in any pads that maybe offered and are of no use too you devonlass:smile:

Ummmm I also wondered about the use of English pads:biggrin:

I quite agree that lack of popularity and demand in the UK,makes western pads a bit 'specialised' and therefore expensive it seems,hence wondering if an 'english' alternative was viable:wink:

Glad I am not the only one daft enough to wonder about this option,you obviously just weren't daft enough to risk looking like a muppet and asking lol:redface::giggle:

Of course I will let you know if I get offered anything and cannot make use of it myself:smile:

To contrast, English saddles have smaller trees, are relatively flexible, and have "buffer material" (frocking) built in. So thin pads work well with English saddles. And one would wear thin stockings with light-weight dress shoes.

But quality Navaho blankets are difficult to come by, and rather expensive. (Caveat emptor: there are a lot of "knock off" blankets purporting to be "Navaho." These are not soft, not thick, and not quality wool. I advise staying away from these.)

Thank you very much Harry for that informative post,was most helpful.
In regards to the english pad thing,don't worry I wasn't referring to the usual thin english numnahs/saddle pads,I am aware they would be worse than useless for western saddles (sorry should have been more clear in orginal post that was only referring to certain types of english pads).I have an english sheepskin pad that is as thick as the western wool ones I *think* and was this one I wondering about using.

I have seen the navajo blankets,and have also heard that many of them are inferior quality to what cowboys and such like use.I would be happy to use a plain blanket like has always been used,but I too would worry about getting one that was any good as opposed the rubbish ones that seem to be so common.I don't know enough about them to know what I am looking for so have stayed away from them as you suggested.Is a shame that can't easily find a decent blanket as would be happy with something simple but effective like that.

I don't spend long amounts of time in the saddle,so know that I don't need anything too amazing,but just want to be sure what I get does the job well enough to keep my lad comfy.

Thank you again for the reply,and if you have any suggestions for pads that will do the job,that are not silly money,please do let me know:smile:

Devonlass - does the saddle fit without a pad? A western saddle should basically fit without a pad. I use the pad for minor adjustment and I like to fit as thick as possible to protect the horses back.

Is your pad sheepskin Devonlass? Photos of it under saddle? How are the sweat marks? I do sell Mattes sheepskin western and english pads and the western ones are a little thicker. Also, you can add felt shims in to build up the thickness.

There is a point of getting what you pay for. Initially, I sold the cheaper pads - but they really are not nearly as good. And, no-one bought the cheap pads when they saw them up against the expensive ones. In fact, the one I sell the most of by far, is the Mattes shimmable pad. I see many customers with loads of pads and this one allows you to change it to your horses' seasonal or workload requirements. I have seen the Cavallo pad but found it to stiff/rigid - unless your saddle does not fit then that might be a good thing!

Thanks for the reply,is very helpful.

My saddle does actually fit quite well on it's own,hence why I don't want a very thick rigid pad that may alter the fit a lot.I understand that a pad is essential to fit more so with western than english,but surely it's still important to not have something so thick that it alters fit??

My english pad is the full size square shaped mattes pad with pockets for shims,and yes it is the genuine sheepskin one.Does look very similar to some western ones I have seen on the net,hence wondering if it was a possibility that I could use it,even as just a temporary measure until I have the funds to get a decent western one.
I don't have photos of it under saddle,or any idea of sweat marks etc as have not used it with my western saddle.Didn't want to use it without checking it was ok with people more knowledgable than me,hence posting on here!!

Is interesting to hear that you sell the mattes one,and that is very similar to the english one,bar the thickness.Also good point about the shimming in regard to shape changing,maybe that is a alternative to having various pads for different times of the year,although not sure I am confident enough with shimming to go with this option,and was assuming I might have to have different pads as my lad is a seasonal shape changer.

I am still waiting to hear back from a member on here regarding some pads,and am hoping they will be suitable at least for now,but if not,or even as well as was just wondering if my mattes pad might be an option as cannot afford to spend loads on a pad this side of xmas.

Thanks for all the replies folks has been most helpful.Apologies BTW if my responses tonight don't make loads of sense,but am on nights at the mo,and have not had a lot of sleep!!

 

[western-saddler]

My saddle does actually fit quite well on it's own,hence why I don't want a very thick rigid pad that may alter the fit a lot.I understand that a pad is essential to fit more so with western than english,but surely it's still important to not have something so thick that it alters fit??

If it is quite a close fit then I would guess (as have not seen horse/saddle etc) that a thinner pad would be better. (I tend to fit the saddle wide to allow room for thicker padding.) You want to go as thick as possible without altering fit. The Mattes sheepskin is nicely thick and holds it thickness too, unlike some pads or the non-sheepskin ones. You can only try it and see how your horse goes and also watch the sweat patterns although that is not definitive.

 

[Harry Hobbes]

Is a shame that can't easily find a decent blanket as would be happy with something simple but effective like that.

If you can find a surplus US Army blanket ( See this: http://goo.gl/EzV9z **Edited the URL**), then try it.

The US Cavalry used these as saddle blankets for decades under their McClellan saddles.

When folded properly, six layers of wool protect the horse.

Best regards,
Harry

 

[campbh]

The tree of a western saddle is long, broad, and rigid; by design. It is engineered not to be flexible, much the same as the sole of a "combat boot" is designed not to be too flexible; and for the same reason: to buffer against the exterior points of pressure. This permits carrying heavy loads.

Just as one would wear heavy wool cushion socks with combat boots, rather than thin (cotton) socks (which would result in blisters), a thick pad is used with a western saddle as a buffer against the inflexible tree.

To contrast, English saddles have smaller trees, are relatively flexible, and have "buffer material" (frocking) built in. So thin pads work well with English saddles. And one would wear thin stockings with light-weight dress shoes.

Traditional and working cowboys will tell you that the best saddle blanket under any western saddle is a "Navajo blanket." Navaho blankets are made of soft, yet thick wool. They get wet, absorb some of the moisture, but retain warmth. They are an excellent buffer against pressure points and shock. A Navaho blanket is the functional equivalent of thick, soft, wool socks worn with combat boots.

But quality Navaho blankets are difficult to come by, and rather expensive. (Caveat emptor: there are a lot of "knock off" blankets purporting to be "Navaho." These are not soft, not thick, and not quality wool. I advise staying away from these.)

So nowadays, everyone is making "pads."

Unless your horse is under saddle all day, working hard in broken country, you will not need top-of-the-line performance from a saddle pad. You just need the qualities of a good pair of wool socks against the horses's back: soft, thick, retains warmth, absorbs some of the moisture, absorbs some of the shock. If you use the various rubber-like materials (foam, etc.) for padding, just ensure that you have a soft, absorbent wool pad between it and the horse.

Also, if your horse is under saddle all day, and working hard, then you will need to "pad up" or double-up the padding. The soft, absorbent material goes against the horse's back. But short of cowboying on the Pampas or in the Western USA, you probably will not need to double-up.

Best regards,
Harry

Thanks Harry that's a fantastically well-written post - very useful analogies :happy:.