Safety and accidents around horses.

[MrA]

Yesterday something happened that has just got me thinking about it all. I don't want to go into much detail as wasn't there, I don't know what happened and don't want to judge anyone in particular just wanted to chat about safety on and around horses. Basically 2 horses bolted from through 3 fences and onto a main road. Amazing everyone made it out alive to be honest.

A study conducted found that the chances of injuring yourself around horses is something like 1 in 2000 and chance of death is 1 in 10000. I know lots of people who have had very serious accidents myself included. I know lots of people who ski, ride motorbikes etc and can't say I know anyone who has had a bad accident doing those things.

Studies have found that horse riding is far more risky than dangerous activities such as those. I read another study that found something like 60% of accidents can be accounted for by lack of skill or not doing things properly. Again there was a high figure that said people involved in the accidents believe they did something wrong that resulted in the injury.

So with very high statistics do we need to do more. I'm including myself in this. Horses are clearly very powerful, dangerous animals with a mind of their own.

Feel free to share any thoughts on the matter, I'll add more too. But should we all ride using safety stirrups? Wearing hats to lead and be around horses on the ground. Quick release for leadropes. Better design of helmet, better back protectors.

 

[Skib]

Statistics I read when I took up riding in 2001 showed riding was second only to Rugby for risk of serious sport injury. The danger of riding was why in 1965 OH asked me not to ride and I put it off till after 9/11 when the danger travelling in London took on a higher risk level than anyone had anticipated.

However accidents on the ground can cause serious head injury - to Richard Maxwell for instance and that was how my great aunt died.
That is why I always wear my hat on the yard, even when leading and working and grooming. But Ale I have now been on yards for 19 years and I never met anyone else who did the same.

The people I knew who were killed riding, one when I was at school, and two adults since 1901 were all killed by falls.
Fault? Well the adult I knew best invited me to ride with her but I declined. I did not thing the safety standards at her yard were sufficient. At her funeral the people from the yard were all blaming her and she of course was not there to defend herself.

In my first few years of riding, I hacked from lots of different yards. I have noticed safety issues at RSs and yards. e.g. bowed safety stirrups hung on the wrong side of the horse. But the recurring problem seen by me on two yards is leading shod horses over live electric wire cables. I was once at a local school obliged to do this myself And refused till they switched it off. Mostly I dealt with issues by simply not going back to any yards where I thought things were not safe.

A lot of what is done in riding is cultural. So rope head collars and unshod in Texas but in Montana leather and shoes for rocky ground. The same for safety wear. When Charlotte di Jardin began to wear a helmet for dressage and a USA dressage rider was brained damaged in a fall without one - other people began to too.
One thing I would mention is that in USA men do not ride Western in short sleeves. Here I hack out with staff - young girls - who wear strappy tops and having known several people die of skin cancer after serving in the tropics before people knew of the danger, I do worry about that. They go out for hours. even I ride in short sleeves in summer.

 

[Jessey]

I think those are obvious precautions that could be taken to minimise the result but I also think there’s a big chunk of training that could be done to reduce the risks, if a horse is less likely to panic when there’s an unexpected noise or if it gets caught it can make a potentially very dangerous situation much more manageable.

I know too many people who think horses who are pushy/in their face are being cute and cuddly, right up until they get kicked/knocked over/trodden on when it’s obviously the horses fault ?

 

[Trewsers]

I think safety on board and working on the ground are two separate issues.
I say that because you can minimise your chances of having an accident on board by being a better rider, having lessons, gaining experience but end of the day they are unpredictable and no matter what safety equipment you choose to use you can still get hurt. Safety on the ground is different in that a lot of people choose not to take precautions like wearing a hat, gloves and suitable footwear when handling their horse. You don't see many people not wearing riding hats when riding - however you see lots of people handling their animals without hats. It's personal choice of course and you can generally get a feel for a routine and when you're likely to need one the most.
I wouldn't take Storm out even after 17 plus years together into the field alone without my riding hat on and gloves. But that's my choice because we live in a remote area and anything could happen and nobody would notice for a very long time!
Farriers don't tend to wear riding hats when attending to horses feet. However, most of the time - particularly in bad windy weather I wear my hat to pick feet out. It's just a precaution - again very personal. I think end of the day there are lots and lots of things that you can do to minimise impact of an accident, but you cannot bullet proof yourself around them. You have to apply common sense and I guess it's just experience. Sorry that was so long winded.

 

[Trewsers]

And yes I think all stirrups should be safety ones. I don't see why not?

 

[carthorse]

I think some of the trouble is we get complacent. Some of the worst accidents I've seen have been with "safe" horses because they're the ones people get too relaxed around, the sharper ones you know you have to pay attention to and so they don't catch us unaware the same.

 

[Trewsers]

I think some of the trouble is we get complacent. Some of the worst accidents I've seen have been with "safe" horses because they're the ones people get too relaxed around, the sharper ones you know you have to pay attention to and so they don't catch us unaware the same.

That is very very true. I have been guilty of this myself. When Zi first arrived I was naturally doing everything by the book, hat, gloves, boots etc. But after a while I relaxed. Sometimes though I think to myself it's only down to his good nature / respect / training. But they can all spook or have a giddy moment can't they.

 

[Skib]

I think safety on board and working on the ground are two separate issues.
I say that because you can minimise your chances of having an accident on board by being a better rider, having lessons, gaining experience but end of the day they

Our RI thought not. She said my cantankerous share mare whom I hacked and cantered out alone but other people (staff) did not, behaved with me riding her because I had taught her to behave with me on the ground, being led, groomed etc.
I dont exactly see why. But from my first riding lessons, I did pay a lot of attention to learning to lead, groom etc and paid for extra lessons just to learn that. So I think Kite rider, one can learn. Whether mounted or on the ground, you dont accept behaviours you dont want. And the person who insists on one will usually insist on the other.

 

[carthorse]

Our RI thought not. She said my cantankerous share mare whom I hacked and cantered out alone but other people (staff) did not, behaved with me riding her because I had taught her to behave with me on the ground, being led, groomed etc.
I dont exactly see why. But from my first riding lessons, I did pay a lot of attention to learning to lead, groom etc and paid for extra lessons just to learn that. So I think Kite rider, one can learn. Whether mounted or on the ground, you dont accept behaviours you dont want. And the person who insists on one will usually insist on the other.

I can't agree with her on that Skib. I can think of several horses I've handled over the years that I would never have ridden because the were way beyond me, yet on the ground I could cope with them quite happily. And I can think of one I used to ride for someone many years ago that the owner would always catch for me because he was a nasty so and so in the field and I wasn't taking the chance, yet under saddle he was very sweet.

I do agree about not accepting behaviours you don't want, handled or ridden, but I strongly believe that that has to be combined with judgement. The very last thing I want to do is start a fight that I can't win and may end up with one of us hurt, particularly over a behaviour that might be a bit irritating rather than dangerous - once ego starts overriding honesty then horses become a very dangerous pastime.

 

[Trewsers]

I can't agree with her on that Skib. I can think of several horses I've handled over the years that I would never have ridden because the were way beyond me, yet on the ground I could cope with them quite happily. And I can think of one I used to ride for someone many years ago that the owner would always catch for me because he was a nasty so and so in the field and I wasn't taking the chance, yet under saddle he was very sweet.

I do agree about not accepting behaviours you don't want, handled or ridden, but I strongly believe that that has to be combined with judgement. The very last thing I want to do is start a fight that I can't win and may end up with one of us hurt, particularly over a behaviour that might be a bit irritating rather than dangerous - once ego starts overriding honesty then horses become a very dangerous pastime.

Yes yes - well put. I used to bring the YO's youngsters in and handle them if asked to help, but oh my, I'd never have tried to ride them because they were way beyond me! (When I say youngsters not absolute babies but 4 year olds). But on the ground I managed them well enough.

 

[MrA]

So what about the accidents where nothing could be done differently and they were simply accidents. Do you think safety should be improved for things like this. Helmets are great unless you get kicked on the bit of your head they don't protect!

Should we all ride wearing air vests just in case?

Even long term looking at banishing metal shoes in favour of something softer to lessen kick injures?

 

[carthorse]

@Ale when Jim was going through an interesting spell as a youngster I remember someone saying I should wear a hat to handle him and I'm afraid my response was that if he meant to get me the only difference a hat was going to make would be how my head rolled across the yard. The best safety precaution was being sensible and aware, not relying on equipment to give me a false sense of security that may lead to me being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Accidents will happen. We choose to deal with a flight animal that is bigger, stronger, and faster than us and in some cases flight can rapidly turn to fight if they feel their options are limited. My view, and it is just my view, is that all the safety gear used by people nowadays gives a false sense of safety that in turn causes accidents.

 

[Jessey]

My friend was kicked yesterday (nothing serious), her cob is the gentlest, quietest, ex riding school, most well mannered boy. She was turning him out at home (her home) and he just got a bit of the high jinx and caught her hand and thigh as he went out the gate. It was an accident pure and simple. But turning out at this time of year I think of as one of the high danger moments, I’m always a bit on guard, but I still don’t wear a hat ??‍

 

[Kite_Rider]

Our RI thought not. She said my cantankerous share mare whom I hacked and cantered out alone but other people (staff) did not, behaved with me riding her because I had taught her to behave with me on the ground, being led, groomed etc.
I dont exactly see why. But from my first riding lessons, I did pay a lot of attention to learning to lead, groom etc and paid for extra lessons just to learn that. So I think Kite rider, one can learn. Whether mounted or on the ground, you dont accept behaviours you dont want. And the person who insists on one will usually insist on the other.

I’m utterly confused, Im not sure what’s happened, but the quote you replied to isn’t from me Skib, I haven’t replied to this thread until now????
Unless ive been sleep walking/typingI think there must be a gremlin on the thread.

 

[MrA]

Sadly the studies don't cover what safety gear the riders were wearing at the time, you raise an interesting point but I don't know anyone that wears any safety wear except a hat (are you including these). That's just me personally but for example seeing children jumping very big jumps, not the best position, just a hat. Adults on the road not wearing any hi viz. They seem to already be oblivious to the risks, perhaps having a false sense of safety without all the gear?

I've been kicked while turning out too, ale caught my chin very glancing, I would argue that I was stupid and turned out carelessly. So now I always turn back towards the gate, make sure I have space to step back etc. If I had been injured I would have been one of those statistics saying I should have done something differently.

I just think considering the risk of injury is so high and the chance of death, it's weird most of us are so gung ho safety wise. Of course you can be very attentive and think things through and that would probably help alot, so maybe we just need to do more of that?

Just one more example, I remember hacking out many years ago and the horse behind me was stung by a wasp/ hornet, totally out the blue. It went absolutely mad, bucking continuously and the rider went flying. Does it not make sense that every time we ride we do prepare for the unexpected to happen?

 

[Kite_Rider]

I think each and every one of use needs to make a personal risk assessment and make a choice for themselves. I guess we all do that anyway subconsciously, I never wear a hat when I’m on the ground with Belle, but there are a couple on the yard I will always wear a hat and gloves to bring in/turn out because they can be a bit boisterous.
Riding, always a hat but rarely a body protector, despite knowing the risk of accidents, we choose to ride and handle big powerful flight animals with opinions of their own, so we must choose how best to protect ourselves.

 

[carthorse]

I think each and every one of use needs to make a personal risk assessment and make a choice for themselves. I guess we all do that anyway subconsciously, I never wear a hat when I’m on the ground with Belle, but there are a couple on the yard I will always wear a hat and gloves to bring in/turn out because they can be a bit boisterous.
Riding, always a hat but rarely a body protector, despite knowing the risk of accidents, we choose to ride and handle big powerful flight animals with opinions of their own, so we must choose how best to protect ourselves.

I suspect many of us do make that risk assessment Kite_Rider, even if it is informal. I won't ride out if I think it's to foggy, not even with loads of hi viz, or if there's possible ice patches on the road because although Little In may cope that doesn't mean a car near us would and I don't want either of us hit. Likewise very low bright sun. Sometimes with Jim I'd take one look at is face and know it wasn't worth it - I might as well climb on the stable roof and throw myself to the ground! I can't believe I'm the only person who makes those sort of decisions about safety, and it's why I said that using our judgement is probably the most important safety factor of all.

 

[Kite_Rider]

I suspect many of us do make that risk assessment Kite_Rider, even if it is informal. I won't ride out if I think it's to foggy, not even with loads of hi viz, or if there's possible ice patches on the road because although Little In may cope that doesn't mean a car near us would and I don't want either of us hit. Likewise very low bright sun. Sometimes with Jim I'd take one look at is face and know it wasn't worth it - I might as well climb on the stable roof and throw myself to the ground! I can't believe I'm the only person who makes those sort of decisions about safety, and it's why I said that using our judgement is probably the most important safety factor of all.

This is what I meant and exactly what I do every single day, subconscious or conscious thought, it's simply our best judgment on the day.

 

[PePo]

I'm not debating that horse riding or horse handling isn't without risks, but I think we have to be careful to keep those risks in perspective. Also, when I went to a sports psychology lecture the interesting point was made, that there are a lot of people or companies benefit from the perceived safety or unsafety of the sport.

I think although risk can be quantified - whether that's 'safe' or is emotive and based on other factors. What's considered safe for one person, another may view as being unsafe even though the actual risk hasn't changed.

With almost the safety and protective gear, horse rding has never been less risky if you look at it from a pure H&S factor.

Although accidents can and do happen, I'm not sure as many 'just happen out of nowhere' as people like to believe. I've met so many people who have very little idea how to read a horse's body language & their emotions at a subtle level, so many signs are missed until an 'accident' happens.

You wouldn't drive a car that moved a few cms with the hand break on when parked or you had to get driving immediately before you're fully sat in the drivers seat as it won't stop but I'm genuinely amazed the amount of people that don't think they have a problem if their horse walks forward a few steps every time they put a headcollar on or it takes three people to hold a horse to get on. Or, their horse is grumpy to tack up but that's 'just how they are ...' or whatever.

Not all accidents can be prevented but it's staggering the amount of people I've seen that haven't trained their horse in what I'd consider a way that sets the horse up to be a partner and ensures the horse sees the rider/handler as their partner.

I'm also always amazed the amount of people that won't get off out hacking as they don't have enough control to lead on the ground ... to me, that's a basic fundamental that should be in place before anyone goes off the yard. IMHO I'm not sure you could argue that anything that happened as a result of not being able to get off and lead is an 'accident'.

But ultimately, there will always be risk in this world. There's risk in brushing your teeth or driving every day but we still do it. You just need to objectively evaluate your own risks and whether you're happy to continue to take them - and these can/should change all the time

Hope everyone involved in the accident is OK Ale.

 

[Skib]

Glad to keep you all amused telllng me how wrong I am and my RI was. She did not say that it was possible to ride any horse one could handle from the ground. She said I could ride this horse (partly) because I had her behaving for me on the ground.
It wasnt till after the mare died that I was told staff would not ride her any more.